Player Watch Player Watch: Micky van de Ven

[vicbob]

I couldn't do it but I could totally understand if some decided to walk away because they'd just had enough.

Its weird, the only bit about Spurs I find vaguely interesting now is SC itself. I spend a lot of time on here, its my first port of call for most news, both football and non football, as there are some very good and knowledgeable posters on here and I find the behind the scenes stuff fascinating from the ITK's, but that's where it stops.

I haven't spent a penny on the club for 4 years. I used to go regularly, 10-15 times per season, but I have cancelled mine and my sons membership, no merchandise nothing, not a penny. I used to then watch games on TV, but hardly even bother now. Its been mind numbingly boring for years now, things are always going to change but never do. Someone asked me who I supported the other day and I actually said, without thinking, "I used to support Spurs".

For something that has played such a massive part in my life for 40 years to come to that, is quite sad, but its the reality of what this club now is and will continue to be until ENIC do one.
Unfortunately, even if they bugger off (or change their whole way of doing things) I think its too late as I really find I don't care anymore...........................

 

[wrd]

Maybe they will maybe they won't give up. My guess is they probably don't mean it but I think what people need to remember is for many it's not just about one decision in isolation. It's a build up of countless factors over the last few years and I could totally understand if some have decided to draw a line in the sand.

I'm extremely frustrated right now but it's not just because we are struggling to get CB's in.

Since the stadium has been built we've had the catastrophe that was the Super league, 3 years of awful negative football, the Paraticci situation, manager after manager coming in, none of which were backed properly, the lies about the stadium being the "game changer", rising ticket prices despite the team being poor, the lack of communication from the board, the failure to move players on, the constant meddling in footballing issues from Levy and his cronies regarding who to buy, the £150 million injection that was widely publicised actually only being 2/3rd's of that, window after window being left short as a squad....... and I could go on and on.

The Stadium is great, the training ground is fantastic, but it doesn't get close to balancing all the negative actions of the board in the last 3-4 years.

I couldn't do it but I could totally understand if some decided to walk away because they'd just had enough.

Plus, how long can you dine out on that. Surely it can't be used as both an excuse for what came before in order to build this thing that will take us to the promise land and simultaneously the balancer out of all the negative situations on the other side.

You wouldn't stay loyal to a film director and by getting tickets for their latest releases after they've released 8 flops in a row because back in 1986 they made one great film. You'd acknowledge it was an outlier, say thanks and look elsewhere.

 

[wiggo24]

As soon as you acknowledge that every single decision made at this football club, footballing or otherwise, is made for financial purposes, it all starts to make sense.

We sign players but only those who are either under-value or represent high re-sale value. We do lots of PR about caring for the fanbase but we furlough staff, raise ticket prices every season and were one of the founders of the Super League. We build infrastructure at great cost because it increases the value of the club upon its eventual sale, not to satisfy the fanbase. We hire expensive managers in order to try and avoid spending money on better players to back them, before sacking them as soon as European football is off the table. We do just enough to qualify for Europe, where the money is, but nothing to challenge higher than this because at this point the cost of assembling a title winning team outweighs the financial benefit of winning the title.

It's so simple. The sooner people realise that this is all about money and nothing else they'll understand why we haven't signed a new CB, and why we won't be paying top dollar for a quality one either.

 

[danovice]

We aren't fc harry kane. When you chose to support spurs 12 years ago, you did realise that prior, we were lower to mid table for at least 12 - 14 years?

If we got relegated, I'd still be supporting spurs. I actually used to prefer the atmosphere at spurs when we were shit, at lest there wasn't this sense of entitlement.

Not entitlement at all. In my short time of 12 years, I've cared less and less because Levy doesn't care.

 

[wrd]

As soon as you acknowledge that every single decision made at this football club, footballing or otherwise, is made for financial purposes, it all starts to make sense.

We sign players but only those who are either under-value or represent high re-sale value. We do lots of PR about caring for the fanbase but we furlough staff, raise ticket prices every season and were one of the founders of the Super League. We build infrastructure at great cost because it increases the value of the club upon its eventual sale, not to satisfy the fanbase. We hire expensive managers in order to try and avoid spending money on better players to back them, before sacking them as soon as European football is off the table. We do just enough to qualify for Europe, where the money is, but nothing to challenge higher than this because at this point the cost of assembling a title winning team outweighs the financial benefit of winning the title.

It's so simple. The sooner people realise that this is all about money and nothing else they'll understand why we haven't signed a new CB, and why we won't be paying top dollar for a quality one either.

That is painfully honest, I think we can all be guilty of putting the pieces together that suit what we need to believe but I think you're close to a painful truth. It's a bitter pill to swallow to realise that people don't care about us as much as we thought but I think you're right and it's healthier to accept.

I'd put the question like this; Have they ever made a decision they were not forced to; where they put the fans (footballing) interests ahead of their own? Another way to look at it is this; Have they ever made a decision that put them at risk of losing control of the financial situation (Their interest).

Now some may argue that staying in control of the financial situation is in our interest and for the most part, yes they are mutually beneficial, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying have they ever risked their control of the situation for footballing reasons to even allow the opportunity to show that their method might not be the most effective?

It is like a parent refusing to allow a child to make their own decisions because the parent doesn't want to deal with the anxiety, thereby putting their emotional needs ahead of the kids. The board puts their needs ahead of ours and won't dare make a decision that may cause them distress.

 

[SandroClegane]

That is painfully honest, I think we can all be guilty of putting the pieces together that suit what we need to believe but I think your close to a painful truth. It's a bitter pill to swallow to realise that people don't care about us as much as we thought but I think you're right and it's healthier to accept.

I'd put the question like this; Have they ever made a decision they were not forced to; where they put the fans (footballing) interests ahead of their own? Another way to look at it is this; Have they ever made a decision that put them at risk of losing control of the financial situation (Their interest).

Now some may argue that staying in control of the financial situation is in our interest and for the most part, yes they are mutually beneficial, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying have they ever risked their control of the situation for footballing reasons to even allow the opportunity to show that their method might not be the most effective?

It is like a parent refusing to allow a child to make their own decisions because the parent doesn't want to deal with the anxiety, thereby putting their emotional needs ahead of the kids. The board puts their needs ahead of ours and won't dare make a decision that may cause them distress.

Jose and Antonio were both HUGE financial risks as "win-now" managers, and both were significantly backed (albeit not 100% backed).

 

[chas vs dave]

Not entitlement at all. In my short time of 12 years, I've cared less and less because Levy doesn't care.

What does levy caring have to do with it?

I'm quite certain he does care, he's just too risk adverse.

 

[Japhet]

It's literally a reason why it won't be that bad lol. We will be playing attacking football, not camping in our box condeding a lot of shots like we did under Conte.
And again, the main reason why we conceded the amount of goals last season were our goalkeepers, not central defenders.

The thought of Dier, Davies or Lenglet having to do a 3 point turn to get after just about any old ball over the top must be slightly converning, no?

 

[Tucker]

15 pages of belly aching so far today. I guess this has become the Micky Van de Vent thread.

 

[SpursSince1980]

And the summer started off so brightly. Oh well.

 

[wrd]

Jose and Antonio were both HUGE financial risks as "win-now" managers, and both were significantly backed (albeit not 100% backed).

I disagree that these reflect them putting football ahead of finance because both of these decisions were in response to Poch saying we need a painful rebuild. Jose basically got the job by speaking up what he could do with the squad and also was far more happy to play to the camera for amazon. I think that was unequivocally a financial decision and an incorrect one given that we're now trying to do what Poch asked for 5 or so years after the fact.

Conte was appointed mid-season because the situation with Nuno got so bad that we were in danger of undoing all the work that had gone before him. The reason Conte was hired mid-season was directly because we were not willing to agree to his financial terms in the summer before hand, that's why we landed on Nuno and we panicked and submitted to Conte's demands. We then didn't back Conte the way he perceived we would and the catastrophe that began to unfold under Nuno came to fruition under Conte himself.

I'd actually be curious if you disagree with anything I just said and why.

 

[longtimespur]

What does levy caring have to do with it?

I'm quite certain he does care, he's just too risk adverse.

In my humble opinion.... the only thing he cares about is MONEY.
He'll do just enough so we don't fall to far out of the top four, if at all, but again that's money based. I don't/can't believe he wants to win ANYTHING just happy as long as the money comes in.

 

[Stoof]

Do you ever wonder that if something is as blindingly obvious like signing a new CB and we have chosen NOT to do it, then there could be another reason?

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt - save for anyone with their email address as their username (John, I’m joking) - so would you just not think there are other things that are at play that make complete sense in that context?

Maybe I’m just super naive, but in retrospect things like this tend to make sense in the round.

Maybe not. I don’t know.

 

[Scissors&Tape]

please fucking ban me from the transfer forums so i stop clicking on player threads expecting to read news or analysis about an actual player only to find tedious whining by a bunch of crybabies

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Its happening again isn't it. All talk of signing top class defenders at the start of the window before it all turns to shit. Honestly I don't know why we bother to think this lot in charge will ever change. If we start the season with these CB we are going to get some proper spankings

 

[Trix]

Jose and Antonio were both HUGE financial risks as "win-now" managers, and both were significantly backed (albeit not 100% backed).

It is not backing a manager to spend valuable money on players they both don't want and have no intention of playing.

Also backing a manager is far more than just buying them the players they want. It's about trying to do as much as you can both on and off the pitch to put their vision into practice. It is not to side with players who get the hump who aren't playing because they are big money assets. It is not to make promises and assurances that you don't keep, and it is not sacking them 5 days before a cup final.

Jose, Conte and even Nuno were shit appointments but mainly because they had no intention of giving them what they actually needed to succeed.

 

[Mattspurs1982]

Just when it was all starting to look positive. Sigh. ffs THFC

 

[wrd]

Do you ever wonder that if something is as blindingly obvious like signing a new CB and we have chosen NOT to do it, then there could be another reason?

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt - save for anyone with their email address as their username (John, I’m joking) - so would you just not think there are other things that are at play that make complete sense in that context?

Maybe I’m just super naive, but in retrospect things like this tend to make sense in the round.

Maybe not. I don’t know.

I hope you're right is what I'll say. Think we can only put the pieces together after the fact but I think this again highlights a difference in people, some of us like to try and put the pieces together ahead of time as it's less painful, where as others like to retain that optimism but will tend to disappear when it comes time for puzzle piecing the aftermath in order to retain their optimistic view and avoid the painful disappointment.

Apparently I'm a masochist because I'll see the truth, experience that disappointment, choose to hope I'm wrong and then suffer the painful disappointment full dosage and then batter myself for not accepting what was infront of me the first time round

 

[Meercat]

Do you ever wonder that if something is as blindingly obvious like signing a new CB and we have chosen NOT to do it, then there could be another reason?

This is the land where I live. I always think there's more I don't get to see, other motivations, balancing factors... last time, when we failed to give Jose the defenders he wanted, I assumed it was because we needed to put the spend into different financial windows to do some fancy tax fuckery or something and would focus on the defence in the Jan window... then in the Conte windows... so I get very confused when I see so many links to midfielders and the seeming neglect of the defence, again. But there has to be a reason. Luckily I'm used to a life of blissful ignorance.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

It's very easy to pigeon-hole people.

I don't think Levy should have anything to do with the football operation. People aren't defending actions. They're just not jumping to conclusions based on snippets from press or ITK. I disagree that those two things are one and the same

Every fan gives a shit about our football team's success; to claim otherwise is churlish. The concern is entirely valid - equally as resolving it can be in the time that is available to us.

Merging CB requirements from Mourinho to Conte to Ange is a slight mis-analysis in my book. Whilst that position has been unfilled, I'd say that particular CB is a different player for all of those managers. Maybe arguable M and C were after the same thing (albeit with different formations) but since 1 July we're on Ange time now. So it's what he wants - and we're four weeks into that. That's the perspective I'm coming at this with. I also am confident, based on nothing but my averagely sized balls, that we will get one of the two + Tosin + the Blackburn kiddo.

Absolutely cracking post and sums up where I'm at.
The only genuine supporters comment is a load of crap but that's where the level of debate is when it comes to this topic. (Probably get neg repped by him.....again)