Player Watch Player Watch: Micky van de Ven

[Timberwolf]

That is painfully honest, I think we can all be guilty of putting the pieces together that suit what we need to believe but I think your close to a painful truth. It's a bitter pill to swallow to realise that people don't care about us as much as we thought but I think you're right and it's healthier to accept.

I'd put the question like this; Have they ever made a decision they were not forced to; where they put the fans (footballing) interests ahead of their own? Another way to look at it is this; Have they ever made a decision that put them at risk of losing control of the financial situation (Their interest).

Now some may argue that staying in control of the financial situation is in our interest and for the most part, yes they are mutually beneficial, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying have they ever risked their control of the situation for footballing reasons to even allow the opportunity to show that their method might not be the most effective?

It is like a parent refusing to allow a child to make their own decisions because the parent doesn't want to deal with the anxiety, thereby putting their emotional needs ahead of the kids. The board puts their needs ahead of ours and won't dare make a decision that may cause them distress.

I broadly agree, although there are times when the club HAS to invest in the playing sqaud in order to get CL football which is a huge financial incentive in itself.

If Spurs aren't in the CL on a regular(ish) basis not only do we not get the massive qualifying fee but it also devalues the club and the brand which, in turn, hits the owners in the pocket.

We conveniently stopped investing big in the squad when we were actually regular CL contenders under Poch which absolutely proves your point, but I think you can make a solid argument that investing in a quality CB right now could earn the club more money in the long run than buying 2 middling options at half price and then finishing 7th or 8th a result.

 

[Stamford]

We aren't fc harry kane. When you chose to support spurs 12 years ago, you did realise that prior, we were lower to mid table for at least 12 - 14 years?

If we got relegated, I'd still be supporting spurs. I actually used to prefer the atmosphere at spurs when we were shit, at lest there wasn't this sense of entitlement.

but that's his choice, everyone feels differently. I have close friends who were season ticket holders since they were kids, travelled away and one even worked at the club for a number of years and they have stopped going.

They have refused to attend again until ENIC go because they know what we all do which is there is ZERO ambition at this football club. I don't care about the training ground or even the stadium really. It's about the team and that has been lost sight of.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

but that's his choice, everyone feels differently. I have close friends who were season ticket holders since they were kids, travelled away and one even worked at the club for a number of years and they have stopped going.

They have refused to attend again until ENIC go because they know what we all do which is there is ZERO ambition at this football club. I don't care about the training ground or even the stadium really. It's about the team and the arsenal been lost sight of.

and the cheese room

 

[wrd]

I broadly agree, although there are times when the club HAS to invest in the playing sqaud in order to get CL football which is a huge financial incentive in itself.

If Spurs aren't in the CL on a regular(ish) basis that devalues the club and the brand which in turn, hits the owners in the pocket.

We conveniently stopped investing big in the squad when we were actually regular CL contenders under Poch which absolutely proves your point, but I think you can make a solid argument that investing in a quality CB right now could earn the club more money in the long run than buying 2 middling options at half price.

Yep completely agree and your last line was what I was alluding to with the parent/child analogy, they don't allow the alternative action to happen because it's too uncomfortable, they won't even contemplate the benefits because it's not worth the discomfort of the process of finding out. Let alone the process of making mistakes and learning from them. Just stick to their method and any mistakes in their method are explained by external factors.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

And the summer started off so brightly. Oh well.

Sounds familiar

 

[Timberwolf]

Yep completely agree and your last line was what I was alluding to with the parent/child analogy, they don't allow the alternative action to happen because it's too uncomfortable, they won't even contemplate the benefits because it's not worth the discomfort of the process of finding out. Let alone the process of making mistakes and learning from them. Just stick to their method and any mistakes in their method are explained by external factors.

Ah just realised I replied to the wrong post - was meant to be in response to @wiggo24's post.

 

[wrd]

Ah just realised I replied to the wrong post - was meant to be in response to @wiggo24's post

ouch, my soul.

 

[Timberwolf]

ouch, my soul.

Haha - well I think we're both in agreement! Was more backing up your post if anything.

 

[bbunc]

I broadly agree, although there are times when the club HAS to invest in the playing sqaud in order to get CL football which is a huge financial incentive in itself.

If Spurs aren't in the CL on a regular(ish) basis not only do we not get the massive qualifying fee but it also devalues the club and the brand which, in turn, hits the owners in the pocket.

We conveniently stopped investing big in the squad when we were actually regular CL contenders under Poch which absolutely proves your point, but I think you can make a solid argument that investing in a quality CB right now could earn the club more money in the long run than buying 2 middling options at half price and then finishing 7th or 8th a result.

We bought Poch almost 200M worth of Sanchez, Sessegnon, Gio and Tanguy. We bought Conte a 40M specialist RWB a month before he was out the door. We spent 60M on a backup striker who barely played.

We spend money. We just spend it very very very dumbly and often on the wrong priorities.

We seem to be highly focused on re-sale value but we havent bought a player we can actually sell for more than we bought them for in 5-7 years.

I’m actually fine if we don’t want to pay 35M for VdV. He’s far from a plug and play starting LCB in the EPL. Loads of potential, but not plug and play and a pretty large risk. Maybe we don’t have room for that scale of a punt this summer.

but there is zero excuse for not having 50-60M in the budget to buy a real top class CB this window. In all of Europe, there has to be at least one really good CB that fits this system and is realistically available at that price. It really shouldn’t be that hard.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

It is not backing a manager to spend valuable money on players they both don't want and have no intention of playing.

Also backing a manager is far more than just buying them the players they want. It's about trying to do as much as you can both on and off the pitch to put their vision into practice. It is not to side with players who get the hump who aren't playing because they are big money assets. It is not to make promises and assurances that you don't keep, and it is not sacking them 5 days before a cup final.

Jose, Conte and even Nuno were shit appointments but mainly because they had no intention of giving them what they actually needed to succeed.

I get the penny pinching and ENIC looking after themselves without that much care for the football.

I understand they are trying to operate with means (ie make the club pay for it) what I don’t get is why Levy and the board didn’t build an elite scouting/youth system as a means to get good players cheaper over time and build around an identity similar to say Brighton.

My point is if you want to do it cheap or cheaper, why not do it smarter as a means to compensate. It’s not just the lack of fixing say the CB position that is the issue but the very unstructured approach to everything where we swing from one idea to another that limits our growth.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Maybe they will maybe they won't give up. My guess is they probably don't mean it but I think what people need to remember is for many it's not just about one decision in isolation. It's a build up of countless factors over the last few years and I could totally understand if some have decided to draw a line in the sand.

I'm extremely frustrated right now but it's not just because we are struggling to get CB's in.

Since the stadium has been built we've had the catastrophe that was the Super league, 3 years of awful negative football, the Paraticci situation, manager after manager coming in, none of which were backed properly, the lies about the stadium being the "game changer", rising ticket prices despite the team being poor, the lack of communication from the board, the failure to move players on, the constant meddling in footballing issues from Levy and his cronies regarding who to buy, the £150 million injection that was widely publicised actually only being 2/3rd's of that, window after window being left short as a squad....... and I could go on and on.

The Stadium is great, the training ground is fantastic, but it doesn't get close to balancing all the negative actions of the board in the last 3-4 years.

I couldn't do it but I could totally understand if some decided to walk away because they'd just had enough.

All true points but this isn't to do with Van Der Ven, surely this needs to go in the Levy thread otherwise every single thread becomes a Levy bashing thread.

We made some good early moves with Vicario, Maddison and Solomon and Ange has publicly said we need and are working on bringing in at least one CB.

Its super frustrating but lets see how it plays out the next few weeks, surely the Kane situation and possibly finalising certain outgoings like Sanchez are effecting transfers like Van Der Ven being held up.

If its Tosin and not Van Der Ven I'd be a little disappointed as I think VDV being fast and left footed and good technically suits Ange's style of football so well but Tosin is also pretty quick and a decent player who could improve under Ange.

I completely 1000% get the frustration towards Levy but having to read the same complaints in every player thread and every other thread does get a bit tiring.

 

[Japhet]

I broadly agree, although there are times when the club HAS to invest in the playing sqaud in order to get CL football which is a huge financial incentive in itself.

If Spurs aren't in the CL on a regular(ish) basis not only do we not get the massive qualifying fee but it also devalues the club and the brand which, in turn, hits the owners in the pocket.

We conveniently stopped investing big in the squad when we were actually regular CL contenders under Poch which absolutely proves your point, but I think you can make a solid argument that investing in a quality CB right now could earn the club more money in the long run than buying 2 middling options at half price and then finishing 7th or 8th a result.

It's 'speculate to accumulate', but Levy likes to think he can do the second without the first. His idea of speculating is buying cheap and hoping to get lucky. I don't know how this window will pan out, but from experience I fully expect us to be left short, and CB is the only urgent area to be addressed.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

All true points but this isn't to do with Van Der Ven, surely this needs to go in the Levy thread otherwise every single thread becomes a Levy bashing thread.

We made some good early moves with Vicario, Maddison and Solomon and Ange has publicly said we need and are working on bringing in at least one CB.

Its super frustrating but lets see how it plays out the next few weeks, surely the Kane situation and possibly finalising certain outgoings like Sanchez are effecting transfers like Van Der Ven being held up.

If its Tosin and not Van Der Ven I'd be a little disappointed as I think VDV being fast and left footed and good technically suits Ange's style of football so well but Tosin is also pretty quick and a decent player who could improve under Ange.

I completely 1000% get the frustration towards Levy but having to read the same complaints in every player thread and every other thread does get a bit tiring.

Tosin is going to Monaco mate

 

[therealGlenn]

It is not backing a manager to spend valuable money on players they both don't want and have no intention of playing.

Also backing a manager is far more than just buying them the players they want. It's about trying to do as much as you can both on and off the pitch to put their vision into practice. It is not to side with players who get the hump who aren't playing because they are big money assets. It is not to make promises and assurances that you don't keep, and it is not sacking them 5 days before a cup final.

Jose, Conte and even Nuno were shit appointments but mainly because they had no intention of giving them what they actually needed to succeed.

why do so many people not see this?!

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

Do you ever wonder that if something is as blindingly obvious like signing a new CB and we have chosen NOT to do it, then there could be another reason?

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt - save for anyone with their email address as their username (John, I’m joking) - so would you just not think there are other things that are at play that make complete sense in that context?

Maybe I’m just super naive, but in retrospect things like this tend to make sense in the round.

Maybe not. I don’t know.

( Harry Kane )

 

[therealGlenn]

Do you ever wonder that if something is as blindingly obvious like signing a new CB and we have chosen NOT to do it, then there could be another reason?

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt - save for anyone with their email address as their username (John, I’m joking) - so would you just not think there are other things that are at play that make complete sense in that context?

Maybe I’m just super naive, but in retrospect things like this tend to make sense in the round.

Maybe not. I don’t know.

Maybe we have just given up any hope that there is actually any plan or conscious thought process that puts the needs of the team first that we can no longer believe there is any other reason other than pure money grabbing from those in control. After all, there is precedent for these things. Its been blindingly obvious for some time yet.......

 

[Fredo]

Our club literally should be called Opportunistic Hotspur

 

[chas vs dave]

I see Roger ibanez' name popping up again.

Tottenham plotting swoop for AS Roma star Roger Ibanez

Tottenham Hotspur are reportedly contemplating a swoop for AS Roma star Roger Ibanez this summer, as per the Italian outlet Roma Giallorossa. After struggling with leaky defence last term, Spurs have decided to address that issue by signing a new centre-back in this transfer window. They have...

football-talk.co.uk

 

[therealGlenn]

anybody fancy a bet we sign Maguire?

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

We must be in takeover talks, that’s the only thing that could explain any of this radio silence for 2 weeks.
No in’s, no outs.
Off to the takeover thread.