One Step Forward One Step Back

[dimiSpur]

I am not blaming ITKs. Far from it. I'm blaming the ludicrous expectations of most Spurs fans, which is often aided and abetted by the info coming from ITKs, but is largely lodged in some sort of deep felt sense of entitlement which I don't understand.

Maybe the reason we keep making the same 'mistakes' as you call them is because financially that's what we have to do. Are Wigan making the same 'mistakes' because they have to sell their best players and then struggle against relegation? No...they are acting as they have to due to their current situation. Levy is doing the same with us.

If you want to call them 'mistakes' then fair enough. I think the mistake is in expecting too much from a club that is, as it stands, already boxing above its weight.

This is where you're wrong. Whatever the underlying reasons of a personal capacity were, Levy sacked Harry Redknapp, our most succesful manager of the PL era, because ultimately 4th place was not enough. So the club is looking to kick on a level and be a regular Champions Leage Club, and to do that you need better players than Livermore, Jenas and Defoe in your starting XI.

 

[talkshowhost86]

This is where you're wrong. Whatever the underlying reasons of a personal capacity were, Levy sacked Harry Redknapp, our most succesful manager of the PL era, because ultimately 4th place was not enough. So the club is looking to kick on a level and be a regular Champions Leage Club, and to do that you need better players than Livermore, Jenas and Defoe in your starting XI.

If you honestly think that Livermore, Jenas and Defoe will be in our first XI come September then you are more pessimistic than most. If we get to September and those three are regular starters then you can continue your bilious whinging. BUT THERE ARE STILL TWO WEEKS TO GO!!!!!!!

 

[SugarRay]

It's clear to me we will struggle to match the top sides in terms of ambition in the market until we are in the new stadium as it seems most of our dollar is tied up in this much needed and important project.

I can live with that even if it is frustrating losing your best player, and seemingly not spending a dime ( net ) for 3 seasons. Shows just how well we have done to be up contesting the CL slots.

 

[talkshowhost86]

It's clear to me we will struggle to match the top sides in terms of ambition in the market until we are in the new stadium as it seems most of our dollar is tied up in this much needed and important project.

I can live with that even if it is frustrating losing your best player, and seemingly not spending a dime ( net ) for 3 seasons. Shows just how well we have done to be up contesting the CL slots.

Exactly. We have a new stadium on the way which will move us up into that top bracket of Premier League clubs. Our income compared to those above and around us is pretty small and until that is increased we will always struggle to get players, particularly early on in the transfer window.

We've also got an enviable new training ground which didn't come cheap but will provide long term benefits to the club.

Sometimes people need to think a bit more long term, whether that be waiting for two fucking weeks until the transfer window actually closes, or looking at the long term future of the club and balancing that against the here and now.

 

[dimiSpur]

If you honestly think that Livermore, Jenas and Defoe will be in our first XI come September then you are more pessimistic than most. If we get to September and those three are regular starters then you can continue your bilious whinging. BUT THERE ARE STILL TWO WEEKS TO GO!!!!!!!

No, there is one day to go. That's the whole point of this thread, that we are unprepared for the start of the season again. It's not a case of "oh we need one player". It's a case of needing to resolve the 3 most major issues our squad has: the Modric saga, his replacement and a fucking striker.

 

[StartingPrice]

There's been no mention of ITK in the opening post. I'd suggest discussing ITK in the relevant section. To suggest it is the ITK's fault for this negative vibe doing the rounds with all Spurs fans, not just SC members is absurd. The opening post is bang on. We've repeated the same mistakes as last year.

Oh, have we made mistakes?
And we - couldn't be a mutual thing or other clubs dicking us around?

See, to me, it would be far more a mistake to sell Modric for £22 million, and then run our and buy Joey Barton and Lee Cattermole for £24 million on the 1st of July!

Let them do their business (they know far more about it than you), and then see how it looks on the 1st of September, and, kinda, like, wait until the end of May before deciding if the season has been a failure, eh.

 

[StartingPrice]

This is where you're wrong. Whatever the underlying reasons of a personal capacity were, Levy sacked Harry Redknapp, our most succesful manager of the PL era, because ultimately 4th place was not enough. So the club is looking to kick on a level and be a regular Champions Leage Club, and to do that you need better players than Livermore, Jenas and Defoe in your starting XI.

Jaysus...how many times does this need to be said: Levy did not sack Redknapp because he finished 4th.
There are extensive threads on Redknapp and his removal...please, go read them, refresh your memory.

 

[talkshowhost86]

No, there is one day to go. That's the whole point of this thread, that we are unprepared for the start of the season again. It's not a case of "oh we need one player". It's a case of needing to resolve the 3 most major issues our squad has: the Modric saga, his replacement and a fucking striker.

Oh FFS. How many clubs are 'ready' for the start of the season? Not many I'd guess. The majority of transfer business gets done in the last week of the window. That's how the window works (or have you not watched a transfer window ever before?)

The only people who can do all their business early are those for who money is no object. That does not include us.

If we wanted to have sold Modric, replaced him with Moutinho and brought a striker (let's say Leandro) early in the window then we'd have had to sell Modric for 20m (Real's initial bid) bought Moutinho for 30m (Porto's initial valuation) and paid 25m for Leandro (Inter's initial position).

Good work Dimispur! You'd make a great accountant. No wait...I don't mean accountant...I mean penguin.

You'd make a great penguin.

 

[dimiSpur]

Oh, have we made mistakes?
And we - couldn't be a mutual thing or other clubs dicking us around?

See, to me, it would be far more a mistake to sell Modric for £22 million, and then run our and buy Joey Barton and Lee Cattermole for £24 million on the 1st of July!

Let them do their business (they know far more about it than you), and then see how it looks on the 1st of September, and, kinda, like, wait until the end of May before deciding if the season has been a failure, eh.

Listen mate, you repeat the same thing every time I say we're underprepared for the first game of the season. Why do you imply that I want us to sign shit ****s for £30m?

It's fucking plain and simple: We play Newcastle tomorrow with no creative central midfielder and Defoe up front.

It happened last year, which means the club has learnt nothing from whatever the fuck went wrong last season.

 

[dimiSpur]

Oh FFS. How many clubs are 'ready' for the start of the season? Not many I'd guess. The majority of transfer business gets done in the last week of the window. That's how the window works (or have you not watched a transfer window ever before?)

The only people who can do all their business early are those for who money is no object. That does not include us.

If we wanted to have sold Modric, replaced him with Moutinho and brought a striker (let's say Leandro) early in the window then we'd have had to sell Modric for 20m (Real's initial bid) bought Moutinho for 30m (Porto's initial valuation) and paid 25m for Leandro (Inter's initial position).

Good work Dimispur! You'd make a great accountant. No wait...I don't mean accountant...I mean penguin.

You'd make a great penguin.

What absolute bollocks.

Arsenal do not have the money City have, yet they completed the business they wanted to complete before sellign RVP. Liverpool too have signed the few players they wanted.

If we cannot afford to sign the players we're after, then we should look at alternative options. Why can Newcastle sign Cabaye and Tiote whilst we argue with Porto who want £30m for Moutinho? I've never once said "go on Levy give them the money". That is not my argument. My argument is that we need to be more organized. If we can't afford a player, we shouldn't go in for them. We evidently cannot afford Moutinho at that price, so an alternation in targets needs to be made. I'm not saying go and buy fucking Cattermole or Henderson btw SP.

 

[dimiSpur]

Jaysus...how many times does this need to be said: Levy did not sacak Redknapp because he finished 4th.
There are extensive threads on Redknapp and his removal...please, go read them, refresh your memory.

Redknapp was sacked for not getting CL football ultimately mate. The England thing would have been forgiven had we finished above Arsenal. So yes, the Club is looking to be a CL regular.

 

[StartingPrice]

Listen mate, you repeat the same thing every time I say we're underprepared for the first game of the season. Why do you imply that I want us to sign shit ****s for £30m?

It's fucking plain and simple: We play Newcastle tomorrow with no creative central midfielder and Defoe up front.

It happened last year, which means the club has learnt nothing from whatever the fuck went wrong last season.

Listen mate, I repeat the same thing because, like, it is true.
I don't imply you want us to sign shit players, I am stating as a fact that if we set out to do our business as quickly as possible rather than as beneficially as possible we would end up paying more than we should and getting less than we should and would therefore end up up shit creek without a paddle, financially, and that would inevitibly lead to a reduction in the quality of the playing squad.

It's fucking plain and fucking simple: Newcastle is one fucking game that we haven't fucking lost yet and is a fucking hard fucking game fucking anyway. Levy is taking care of the long term fucking future of the fucking club not just worrying about one fucking game, and our fucking season doesn't stand or fall on one fucking game. We lost the first two fucking games last season (not ideal, no-one is saying it is), but still ended up thirteen points clear of fucking ArseScum.

It didn't happen last year - circumstances were different. You don't know what players we will have on the 1st September. Last season we finished fourth (FOURTH) it is only thanks to an improbable CL vitory for Cheslea that we AREN'T in CL FFS.

If you don't understand that Daniel Levy is learning lessons all the time, and that is why everything about our club, including league position, has improved then you are very niave.

 

[StartingPrice]

Redknapp was sacked for not getting CL football ultimately mate. The England thing would have been forgiven had we finished above Arsenal. So yes, the Club is looking to be a CL regular.

No, he wasn't. He was sacked for a number of complex reasons.
Calm down, FFS.

 

[dimiSpur]

No, he wasn't. He was sacked for a number of complex reasons.
Calm down, FFS.

Calm down? What I can't disagree with you? Harry was sacked because he never got on with Levy. But the utlimate reason for his dismissal was the capitulation of a 10 point lead over Arsenal and the subsequent loss of CL football because of it. It's well documented Levy's ambition is to make us a regular CL club. I don't understand how you can possibly debate this point.

 

[Kendall]

Oh FFS. How many clubs are 'ready' for the start of the season? Not many I'd guess. The majority of transfer business gets done in the last week of the window. That's how the window works (or have you not watched a transfer window ever before?)

The only people who can do all their business early are those for who money is no object. That does not include us.

If we wanted to have sold Modric, replaced him with Moutinho and brought a striker (let's say Leandro) early in the window then we'd have had to sell Modric for 20m (Real's initial bid) bought Moutinho for 30m (Porto's initial valuation) and paid 25m for Leandro (Inter's initial position).

Good work Dimispur! You'd make a great accountant. No wait...I don't mean accountant...I mean penguin.

You'd make a great penguin.

I agree with most of this, but we should've had the foresight not to sell all of our strikers and put our faith in a loanee that was always going to be tough to get on board permanently. Pretty much everyone on here knew Ade's wages were going to be a stumbling block. Loaning Pavlyuchenko would've helped. He's not everyone's cup of tea but at least we'd have two strikers who have shown they can play together.

 

[Kendall]

Calm down? What I can't disagree with you? Harry was sacked because he never got on with Levy. But the utlimate reason for his dismissal was the capitulation of a 10 point lead over Arsenal and the subsequent loss of CL football because of it. It's well documented Levy's ambition is to make us a regular CL club. I don't understand how you can possibly debate this point.

Surely it was a combination of that, his age and his flirtation with England? Levy knew that Redknapp was unfocused and was ready to jump ship. As a business, you need longevity, not short term.

 

[dimiSpur]

Listen mate, I repeat the same thing because, like, it is true.
I don't imply you want us to sign shit players, I am stating as a fact that if we set out to do our business as quickly as possible rather than as beneficially as possible we would end up paying more than we should and getting less than we should and would therefore end up up shit creek without a paddle, financially, and that would inevitibly lead to a reduction in the quality of the playing squad.

It's fucking plain and fucking simple: Newcastle is one fucking game that we haven't fucking lost yet and is a fucking hard fucking game fucking anyway. Levy is taking care of the long term fucking future of the fucking club not just worrying about one fucking game, and our fucking season doesn't stand or fall on one fucking game. We lost the first two fucking games last season (not ideal, no-one is saying it is), but still ended up thirteen points clear of fucking ArseScum.

It didn't happen last year - circumstances were different. You don't what players we will ahve on the 1st September. Last season we finished fourth (FOURTH) it is only thanks to an improbable CL vitory for Cheslea that we AREN'T in CL FFS.

If you don't understand that Daniel Levy is learning lessons all the time, and that is why everything about our club, including league position, has improved then you are very niave.

Again, bollocks.

Last season we basically forfeited our opening two matches with a central midfield including Kranjcar. At the end of the season, had we had a point out of one of those 2 games, we would have been 3rd. I know that's very mathematical, but it's also very true.

Assuming the difference in valuations with our targets accumulated is around £10m, it could be a worthwhile investement to make if it means not having a shit midfield in 3 matches as at the end of the season you will be in the CL (if the signings are good enough) and end up bringing in between £20-30m of income.

 

[dimiSpur]

Surely it was a combination of that, his age and his flirtation with England? Levy knew that Redknapp was unfocused and was ready to jump ship. As a business, you need longevity, not short term.

All reasons that added to Levy's frustrations. But had we finished 3rd he would not have been sacked.

 

[talkshowhost86]

What absolute bollocks.

Arsenal do not have the money City have, yet they completed the business they wanted to complete before sellign RVP. Liverpool too have signed the few players they wanted.

If we cannot afford to sign the players we're after, then we should look at alternative options. Why can Newcastle sign Cabaye and Tiote whilst we argue with Porto who want £30m for Moutinho? I've never once said "go on Levy give them the money". That is not my argument. My argument is that we need to be more organized. If we can't afford a player, we shouldn't go in for them. We evidently cannot afford Moutinho at that price, so an alternation in targets needs to be made. I'm not saying go and buy fucking Cattermole or Henderson btw SP.

Arsenal have fuckloads of money compared to us, particularly when it comes to wages. Also how do you think they've funded those moves? By consistently selling their best players. Should we be selling Bale and Rafa to fund your lust for transfers?

I agree with you that it would be nice if we could pick up players like Cabaye and Tiote and an improvement in our scouting network is hopefully something AVB will encourage. But I can guarantee you that if we'd signed Cabaye back then, everyone on here would have been whinging "not good enough! where is our 'world class' player?"

As for being 'more organised', as I've already said it's not simply a case of organisation. Prices are higher at the start of the window. You can be as organised as you want but if the deal isn't right it isn't right.

Fundamentally we aren't going to agree here because your policy is to buy buy buy without much of a thought for the financial side of things whereas I agree with Levy's way of doing things on a sound financial platform.

 

[montylynch]

People need to get a fucking grip. SC has become unbearable over the past week or so. It's the old FM adage, people think it's so easy to conduct transfer business. I know we are a fickle bunch most of the time, but jeez, some of the comments over in the transfer rumours bit are beyond belief.

It seems some people think that DL and AVB haven't a clue about the game or the club, what we need, who we don't need etc and feel that they themselves could run the club just as easy as riding a bike. Nobody on here knows exactly what's going on over there but to read some of the comments they'd like them both to be put in a dark room, water boarded and then interrogated as to why we haven't bought Moutinho, Ade, Leandro, Lloris etc. It seems they won't accept anything as an answer and will only be appeased once we've spent trillions in one day.

God help this site sometimes.