One Step Forward One Step Back

[Chimbo!]

Rewind 12 months and you would be forgiven for failing to realize the difference between Spurs then and today. Despite a managerial upheavel and a wave of transfer speculation the same problems remain.

Luka Modric's future is still undecided. Last year it was Chelsea, this time it is Real Madrid. The player is banished from the first team squad and almost certainly will not start the opening game of the season despite being fit.

Modric's absence from central midfield is a blow to the manager, Andre Villas-Boas, that is compounded by Parker's injury and Sandro's absence from training for the last month. The top three options are realistically unavailable leaving a second string under belly to Tottenham's likely starting XI on Saturday. A weak central midfield started last seasons campaign.

A lack of options in midfield is echoed upfront. While last year Defoe and Pavlyuchenko vied for a starting berth this time it is Defoe and Kane. Adebayor has come and gone since then but may return. Questions are rightly being asked as to why. The club has been on the lookout for a striker for 24 months and has failed to secure one permanently. If a manager is expected to deliver Champions League football than the club should have a transfer policy to match.

Unfortunately this policy is lacking. Again Tottenham go into the beginning of the season with an incomplete squad. The issues surrounding it are only likely to be resolved once three premier league matches have already been played. Spurs made a slow start last year before picking up dramatically once the summer business was completed. However, the club may not be able to recover from a pedestrian kick-off with a new manager under pressure to banish his demons from Chelsea.

While the club clearly has vision and ambition it is failing to act in accordance with it. The same mistakes are apparent now as they were 12 months ago. Equally the club has not moved on from the Modric saga or indeed found a new striker. If the club continues to repeat it's past actions then it will achieve the same results. The club failed to qualify last season for the Champions League and it will fail again until the hierarchy learn that to improve it must review its past policy and seek to fine tune it.

 

[JimmyG2]

Better than one step forward ,two steps back.
Actually I think its three steps forward, new manager,
and early signings and re-signings including Bale
and two steps back with the stalemate over Modric and Adebayor.
Both these will be resolved this week. Trust me.
Leaving us three stepsforward and one step back.
(One step back for the unforseen which will certainly happen)
A 1-1 draw at Newcastle will launch oiur season
in a solid if unspectacular way.
By the next weekend we aill all be wondering what we were worrying about.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Without wishing to be overly facetious, it's a case of one step forward and one bloody step back with this forum at the moment.

Step 1 - We get linked with someone...often not even by a recognised ITK.
Step 2 - Everyone gets stupidly excited and starts planning formations with this player in them.
Step 3 - Player doesn't sign.
Step 4 - All the people from step 2 rage against the original info demanding bloody vengeance for raising their easily raisable expectations.
Step 5 - Someone starts a thread berating Levy, AVB or Chirpy and stating that the club is not moving forward, that we lack ambition and that anyone with a calculator could organise a new stadium, a new training ground and one of the most lucrative shirt deals in the country.
Step 6 - See step 1 and start the whole sorry fucking process all over a-fucking-gain making sure not to learn anything whatsoever from the previous 5 steps.

 

[hellava_tough]

It's looking a bit like last season for our first couple of games, with a weakened squad

Luckily, however, instead of playing the likes of Man Utd and Man City (with Everton post-poned), we've got Newcastle (A), West Brom (H) and Norwich (H)

So we might just get away with it

 

[StartingPrice]

Sorry if I'm over-simplifying, but is this another we still haven't sold Modric (like it's Levy's fault for not accepting any old low-ball offer) and signed a striker threads?

 

[vegassd]

Again Tottenham go into the beginning of the season with an incomplete squad.

Who doesn't, apart from City and Chelsea? Can you name one of the top 8 teams who you think have a "complete" squad?

 

[StartingPrice]

Who doesn't, apart from City and Chelsea? Can you name one of the top 8 teams who you think have a "complete" squad?

The Goons...complete s

 

[ShelfSide18]

I'd fucking love it if Harry Kane scored a hatrick at St James Pk on Saturday.

 

[parklane1]

Sorry if I'm over-simplifying, but is this another we still haven't sold Modric (like it's Levy's fault for not accepting any old low-ball offer) and signed a striker threads?

Looks that way to me, and i thought we did finish forth and qualify for Champs Lge, but Chelski went and blew our place away.

 

[StartingPrice]

Looks that way to me, and i thought we did finish forth and qualify for Champs Lge, but Chelski went and blew our place away.

Exactly.
Personally, I still think we should have got some kind of financial package for that - we have suffered massively because UEFA didn't consider something in their regs and then wanted to pacify the biggest clubs who fecked up, while setting precedents and then going against them, bending rules and remaking them, and making it clear that they will probably change them back again. s.

And I, for one, still think that Platini was only half-joking when he said he wouldn't do anything for us but probably would if it were Juventus !

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Who doesn't, apart from City and Chelsea? Can you name one of the top 8 teams who you think have a "complete" squad?

Chelsea's defence has holes, central midfield isn't special and a striker who hasn't hit top form for about 3 years. They have about 20 attacking midfielders though...big whoop in a Di Matteo setup.

 

[sim0n]

I'd fucking love it if Harry Kane scored a hatrick at St James Pk on Saturday.

at this late stage, the only chance for a new striker by opening day is a loan deal... I guess DL and AVB are fine with Defoe up top for the 3 points away to the barcodes,.... norwich and the spammers should be 6 points ether way... Hup Hup Harry!!!

 

[Davo99]

I'd fucking love it if Harry Kane scored a hatrick at St James Pk on Saturday.

And I'd fucking love it if we signed Messi and Ronaldo and won the League, FA Cup, went unbeaten until 2030 and United, City and Arsenal got relegated.

The only problem is it's never going to happen.

 

[Damian99]

I'd fucking love it if Harry Kane scored a hatrick at St James Pk on Saturday.

Is that you Kevin?

 

[StartingPrice]

Chelsea's defence has holes, central midfield isn't special and a striker who hasn't hit top form for about 3 years. They have about 20 attacking midfielders though...big whoop in a Di Matteo setup.

So, I am not alone in finding the Chelsea transfer business this Summer less intimidating that most.
They have bought 3 young players who have never played in the EPL, or , aside for marin, who was seen as a bit inconsistent in the Bundesliga, a league on the same level. They are all young, and should things not be going their way, they may prove fragile. Their team shows holes all over the pitch, that flashy, but probably overpriced, targets ain't gonna solve. They have lost their talismanic striker and, even with the outcast senior players (who, lets face it, could virtually manage themselves) RDM had a worse PPG tally than AVB, and IMHO his position is vulnerable. At the same time, he will be expected to do the same job that AVB was expected to do - overhaul their ageing squad while at the same time revolutionising their style of play. I think they could struggle in the league and if they do, he could be off. That happens and whose to say that their three shiny players will even be wanted by the new guy - will they be three more expensive albatrosses that the club has to eventually make a moss on. And RDM is gonna have to keep them happy along with Mata.

The fact is, Chelea are no longer the kid with the biggest stick in the playground, and these three players are all statement signings made by a chairman, and not player signings made by a football manager.

 

[Chimbo!]

So, I am not alone in finding the Chelsea transfer business this Summer less intimidating that most.

The fact is, Chelea are no longer the kid with the biggest stick in the playground, and these three players are all statement signings made by a chairman, and not player signings made by a football manager.

It's a fair point but Chelsea are better off with those players in their squad than not. Whatever you think of their quality they are a better proposition this year. Nobody thinks they are going to have as disappointing a league campaign as last time.

From our perspective that is a problem because we finished ahead of them in 4th. If they catch us up then realistically we have to beat Arsenal for a Champions League place. At this moment in time they look in a stronger position than us. They finished higher in may and added quality players to their squad. We are still waiting. We missed out on 3rd by less than 3 points. Had we completed our summer business earlier perhaps we would have gained those points in the first two matches. How much money did we gain by negotiating hard on fees? How much money did we lose by failing to qualify for the champions league?

 

[Chimbo!]

Who doesn't, apart from City and Chelsea? Can you name one of the top 8 teams who you think have a "complete" squad?

Ok maybe I've exaggerated but when you lack a quality striker for your system you are less complete than most.

 

[StartingPrice]

It's a fair point but 1) Chelsea are better off with those players in their squad than not. 2) Whatever you think of their quality they are a better proposition this year. 3) Nobody thinks they are going to have as disappointing a league campaign as last time.

4) From our perspective that is a problem because we finished ahead of them in 4th. 5) If they catch us up then realistically we have to beat Arsenal for a Champions League place. 6) At this moment in time they look in a stronger position than us. 7) They finished higher in may and 8) added quality players to their squad. We are still waiting. 9) We missed out on 3rd by less than 3 points. 10) Had we completed our summer business earlier perhaps we would have gained those points in the first two matches. 11) How much money did we gain by negotiating hard on fees? 12) How much money did we lose by failing to qualify for the champions league?

1) IF they adapt to the EPL. There is no guarantee that they will - I think these are three potentially very fragile players, it is very plausible that they will fail to adapt and have confidence that can be easily knocked - we've seen it before. You are just assuming they all going to adapt immediately and be great - did you automaticlly believe the Goons had strengthened massively when they signed Chamakh, Mertesecker, etc? Then they will be better off in that position, and that position only. They will still be worse off in attack. The defence still looks fragile. The keeper has lost his mystique. I am not convinced - please, stop telling me I must be, just because you are

2) Er, no, that was the purpose of my post to say I don't necessarily accept that they are a better proposition this year. As I recall, everyone said the same last year, and, apparently, I was crazy to believe we would finish above them.

3) Well, er, no, actually I find it very plausible. RDM was incredibly lucky last season. The odl guard returned and, as I said, above, they could basically manage themselves and get team spirit up for a couple of ultra-adrenalin CL games, other than that, they had a worse PPG total than under AVB. It would not surprise me at all if they struggle and he is sacked. They still have the same problem AVB was hired to eradicate. The players bought are all Chairman bought some exotic players, all for the same positions, to prove he too still has a big shitty stick to hit people with, and not players bought systematically to address deficiencies in the squad players, as I said above. If a new man has to come in and any of those three has had his confidence knocked/failed to adapt, they can very easily become the Kalou's of tomorrow. You have to appreciate, Chelsea are in a spiral, now, of hring a manager, have him bring the players in he wants, sacking him, having the next manager come in, not like the previous manager's choices, have them hanging around the fringe of the squad, bring his own nominees in, sack him, repeat the process. Their squad consists of the core of older players from the Mourinho days, and then mish-mashes from the other managers.if you really believe Di Matteo is the man to forge that into a cohesive machine then your estimation of him is greater than mine. And all this against a background of the owning wantng, nay, demanding a total overhaul in the dynamics and tactics of the team. With Di Matteo...oh, really.

4) From your perspective. From my perpective, I am expecting experience to make our young players better, again, I am expecting our purchases to improve our team/squad in the areas we need to improve (contrast with 3, above), and I am expecting AVb with his attentiveness to core fitness and more managed squad rotation, as well as his greater nous in regard to tactics, to have us fitter, more competitive and moreable to compete with the top teams in tactical terms, throughout the season.

5) If they catch us up - you are talking about it as it is a certainty. But, let's take it as red, for now. Then we will have to be the Goons for CL...conveniently enough, I think we will. I am certain they will lose RVP, and maybe, now, Song, and I am not that impressed by their purchases so far (as said), and on top of that, we really should've finished above them last season and I think we've improved. So I can live with that heat.

6) In your opinion, as I explained in my previous post, the one you quoted, and again, in this one, above, I really don't think that losing key squad members but buying three sexy young status buys for the chairman's ego, all for similar positions, when they already had decent players there, to play for a manager I don't rate too highly, is actually strengthening. See, that was the whole point od my post, in this first place, and you don't seem to have understood this, too many on here are just accepting that by buying these three chairman's ego massaging untried in the EPL young players, at exhorbitant cost, for basically the same positions, while losing key team players elsewhere on the pitch, is necessarily massively strengthening.

7) How did they finish higher in May? We finished two places ahead of them and they had a worse PPG total than under AVB. I really don't know what this is supposed to mean.

8) They have added potential quality in one position on the pitch, while losing others. We have already strengthened, by signing Vertonghen and Sigurdsson, and the fact that we haven't added to them, yet, doesn't mean the trasnfer window is closed. We will.

9) We missed out on 3rd by 1 point.

10) Had we finsihed our transfer business earlier we may have got a point from the first two games. In reality, it was the complete collapse in the final season that cost us. We benefitted far more, in the long run, from not giving in to Cheslea over Modric, even though it affected us in the first two games, than you seem to realise, and you assume it was just our chairman who cuased delays in the Ade/Parker transfers.

11) Over a ten year period - solvency rather than being £100 million in debt, I would say.

12) Er, in case you have forgotten, we did qualify for the CL, That place was taken away by Chelsea having one of the most improbable victories imagineable - and failing to ge that one, additional, point, to push us into third, was far more to do with factors affecting the club after Christmas, than losing two games that we may well have lost at full strength.

 

[Chimbo!]

4) From your perspective. From my perpective, I am expecting experience to make our young players better, again, I am expecting our purchases to improve our team/squad in the areas we need to improve (contrast with 3, above), and I am expecting AVb with his attentiveness to core fitness and more managed squad rotation, as well as his greater nous in regard to tactics, to have us fitter, more competitive and moreable to compete with the top teams in tactical terms, throughout the season.

7) How did they finish higher in May? We finished two places ahead of them and they had a worse PPG total than under AVB. I really don't know what this is supposed to mean.

10) Had we finsihed our transfer business earlier we may have got a point from the first two games. In reality, it was the complete collapse in the final season that cost us. We benefitted far more, in the long run, from not giving in to Cheslea over Modric, even though it affected us in the first two games, than you seem to realise, and you assume it was just our chairman who cuased delays in the Ade/Parker transfers.

11) Over a ten year period - solvency rather than being £100 million in debt, I would say.

12) Er, in case you have forgotten, we did qualify for the CL, That place was taken away by Chelsea having one of the most improbable victories imagineable - and failing to ge that one, additional, point, to push us into third, was far more to do with factors affecting the club after Christmas, than losing two games that we may well have lost at full strength.

Most of our argument is a matter of opinion at the moment and only the upcoming season will reveal who is correct. So by responding to some of these points I think we would just end up going in circles.

However, I take issue with the ones I have quoted above:

4) If accuse me of assuming that the new Chelsea signings will do well this season then I can aim the same argument here. You are assuming Sigurdsson and Vertonghen will hit it off. Pot calling the kettle black?

7) I was referring to Arsenal when I said "they finished higher in May".

10) Yes, I was being hypothetical. You claim that our end of season slump caused our failure to finish 3rd. It was those same players who participated in that collapse who will play this season. In hindsight the only thing Tottenham could have changed to increase their points tally was to have conducted their business earlier so that their good form started earlier.

11) If you qualify for the champions league by spending a little more than you will not become insolventas the reward more than negate the costs.

12) We didn't qualify for the Champions League. We knew the rules. Only the top 3 are guaranteed a place. We had a chance to finish 3rd and blew it. leaving our fate to chance.

 

[lillywhites61]

Let's all wait and see what our line up is on Sunday. We really have to try and understand the clubs position amongst the top four and how our money is tied up. It is not how we would like it too happen but we are getting signings done where possible and others are harder.

I am sure DL is as frustrated about the situation and is busting his balls to try and sort it all out.

I am pretty sure we will not go into the season proper with only Defoe and Kane as strikers. It is a better start team wise to the season this year as well. For me we will get the Modric saga over and then I can see movement quite quickly.