John Pratt, Mark Falco, Jake Livermore

[Spurger King]

About half the team are scapegoats and the other half can do no wrong. Livermore's not the only one who gets regular criticism - he's just the one who seems to bring the least to the party.

 

[parklane1]

There have always been fickle Spurs fans.

 

[Bobbins]

There have always been fickle Spurs fans.

You're right, we're worse than ever now though.

Actually no I changed my mind, you're talking shit!

 

[Ironskullll]

I was at that game.




Falco was an OK finisher, but the rest of his game was pretty poor. He was slow and there was very little wit about his game. He was just a decent target man who benefitted from playing in a very good side.

Decent or shit then?

 

[The Watcher]

Jake's a fairly average player for a team of our talent, but every side needs squad players who don't kick up a fuss about being exactly that - especially when they're versatile enough to play a few positions in an emergency. Think John O'Shea when at United if you will, not a great player but did a job when required and gave his all (won a few trophies for his efforts too).
In addition to this, he's an academy product for home-grown requirements and I believe that he is actually a Spurs fan, which means we'll get 110% from him rather than the effort we'd get from a random mercenary bench-warmer bought from elsewhere.
Reckon he'd probably do a very decent job most mid-table sides, but we should also bear in mind that all players - at whatever level - need a run of games to maintain consistent levels of performance and he never gets that with us.

 

[worcestersauce]

Sorry sped I applaud the sentient but from what I see Jake get bouquets of flowers compared to the vitro John Pratt used to get, only the Jenas hate has come close to that.
I really don't see the hate or even much scapegoating for Livermore to be honest, he's just not the standard we need and is unlikely to be in the future.

 

[stevenqoz]

If I remember rightly both Falco and Pratt were Hackney boys while Jake being from Enfield makes them all pretty local. I believe that behind the crowd treatment of many such players is the peculiarity that sometimes some pretty ordinary players do make it into the professional game. Having been involved with hundred's of good under 18 players since 1983 I can possibly give a few insights it how this happens. Both in the UK and now where I coach in Australia. As players go through most 'systems' they are tested on many levels. Skill, Athleticism, Pace and attitude are all examined at every stage. yes these are obvious elements but there are also a few others that may not be obvious. The whole representaive system be it schoolboy or club is as much a test of the parents as it is of the player. Time, finances and persistance are all a factor. Probably an ability to survive the politics of the game is important but even more that little bit of luck to take an opportunity when it arises, is vital. Falco, Pratt and Livermore went through a lot to get what they got at Tottenham.

 

[AngerManagement]

consider what was before him !.. we'd just shook the world of English football by signing ossie & ricky!.. but the forwards wernt up to it where they!.. Armstrong , lee etc ..complete gub.. we sign Archibald & then the bonus of garth crooks & we play the "Tottenham" brand of football,, injuries & problems arise and local kid from hackney mark falco gets his chance & actually takes it.. he was never shit!.. he was part of a Tottenham side that finished 3rd in the football league.. something we havn't done since.
cant wait to finish 3rd again & call a player shit . possibly not for Neville southall it would have been runners up!

We finished 3rd in the football league with Gazza and Lineker in 1989-90

 

[Flashspur]

Falco was alright. I saw Pratt as well. Livermore is no worse than either. He is good cover and an important member of the squad. A PL side needs a squad with depth. Jake has done well when he has played. We should respect that.

 

[nicdic]

Some of the other forums are very harsh on Livermore as is twitter, and there are a fair few on here who go way over the top in their criticism of him. Decent cover, always reliable when called upon. Thought he was very good last season, and maybe could have had more minutes this season.

 

[Legend10]

Some of the other forums are very harsh on Livermore as is twitter, and there are a fair few on here who go way over the top in their criticism of him. Decent cover, always reliable when called upon. Thought he was very good last season, and maybe could have had more minutes this season.

I think the problem is that people compare him with Sandro, Dembele and to a lesser extent Parker, and certainly the first 2 are top draw midfield players for what they do whilst Parker Is a leader type player. Jake is always going to be viewed negatively whilst being compared to them. However he would be strongly competing for a starting place in half the sides in the premiership, so how bad is that for cover?

 

[class of 62]

We finished 3rd in the football league with Gazza and Lineker in 1989-90

yep your right!.. fucking alhziemers!!

 

[class of 62]

Falco was alright. I saw Pratt as well. Livermore is no worse than either. He is good cover and an important member of the squad. A PL side needs a squad with depth. Jake has done well when he has played. We should respect that.

I can actually remember john pratt being booe.d off at the lane & john holding his hands up as to surrender as he was being subbed!
to this day I really don't understand this vitriol against your own player!!.. & theres always one who's the butt of the boo boys anger... I can see this happening to jake sadly.

 

[Wirral Spurs]

Sorry sped I applaud the sentient but from what I see Jake get bouquets of flowers compared to the vitro John Pratt used to get, only the Jenas hate has come close to that.
I really don't see the hate or even much scapegoating for Livermore to be honest, he's just not the standard we need and is unlikely to be in the future.

He really was dreadful though. A scapegoat in a relegated team, poor sod. He sounded quite chipper on the Spurs Show.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I wasn't around at the time, but all the fans around me at the Lane who were there remember Pratt with nothing but dread as a truly thoughtless and limited footballer who just didn't belong in the same company as his contemporaries. These same fans remember Falco as a player who at the time was given a rough ride, but with hindsight is someone who we could've probably done with in more recent times.

As for Jake Livermore, he has a good attitude and is a trier, but he is simply not good enough and to have him starting any match for us is banal in my opinion. I'd far prefer a less experienced but more capable or talented player was given a go. He wasn't helped by the fact that he was filling in for our first choice midfielder in Dembele, who had inexplicably been moved into the attacking three due to Lennon's injury (would leaving Dembele where he was and putting Holtby in, thus at least leaving our centre as strong as possible, not have made far more sense?) and playing with the capable but very much second-best-to-Sandro Scott Parker, but that's no excuse. For all his energy and fight, he's cumbersome, makes a hash of the simplest of passes and often looks like he just does not know where to be on the pitch.

If we hadn't produced him he'd not be at Spurs because he would have never been a player we'd sign, even as a back up. I reckon he'll go the way of other Spurs players who came through our youth system and played a fair bit even though they weren't quite good enough... he'll be sold for a reasonable fee to either a Championship side where he'll find his level, or a lower Premiership side (or promoted side), where as an average-to-poor player amongst several other average-to-poor players, he'll soon find his way down into the Championship where he'll find his level. This precedent has been set by the likes of Stephen Clemence, Jamie O'Hara, Dean Marney.

Nobody likes to see a good youth product more than me, but the reality is that Livermore hasn't the quality to rub shoulders with the players in our first team, and even our back ups, however experiences, should be able to play with our main players and not look out of place. The luxury players aren't the tricksters and creators, the luxury players are those without the ability to meaningfully contribute and are therefore carried. In defence I can't think of one player who, should an injury occur witht he first teamer, would be a significant downgrade, and I include Gallas (who I really don't like) in that. In our attacking midfield, while obviously Bale cannot be replaced due to him being one of the very best players anywhere, I'm reasonably comfortable with any two out of Lennon, Sigurdsson, Holtby and Dempsey playing, though obviously Lennon is the one I'd want in the team most, and Dempsey least, and the bringing in of a good attacking player (or development of the likes of Pritchard and Townsend) is probably necessary to enhance things. Up front Defoe and Adebayor, well we need better than both really. But in the central three, while, as I've said, I'm happy to see Parker in for either Sandro or Dembele, we need better than both Livermore and Huddlestone. The latter at least has produced some great things in the past, though I don't have faith in him anymore (and I think his injuries have contributed heavily), but the former has given me no basis to ever feel comfortable with him in the side. I'd have thought, given that this kid has beent he one to come on for Dembele lately and is a player or both composure and guile, if not still a bit sheepish about it, that Carroll would've been the obvious player to throw in to the centre the other day given that it was deemed necessary to move Dembele (something I hope is not repeated). The kid might be stick thin, but he has far more chance of offering something than Livermore purely because he has ability, and Livermore, it is plain to see, does not.

I'm probably going to be slagged off to high heaven for this, but those who have seen me post over the years know that I'm probably one of the more optimistic and biased towards 'all things Spurs' supporters on this site and I just don't think this boy has what it takes. I hope he proves me wrong in the most emphatic fashion.

 

[WestBelfast Spurs]

Everyteam has a scapegoat, fans need to vent their anger at someone, its human nature

 

[Liquidator]

I was at that game.




Falco was an OK finisher, but the rest of his game was pretty poor. He was slow and there was very little wit about his game. He was just a decent target man who benefitted from playing in a very good side.

Seems just the sort of fella we could do with now. I'm tired of playing 10 men against decent teams.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Seems just the sort of fella we could do with now. I'm tired of playing 10 men against decent teams.

That's just it though. Falco was a bit like a bigger, fatter Defoe. Good when scoring, not much use the rest of the time.

 

[TheChosenOne]

Venables was a boo boy .. Lots of stick from sections of the crowd back in the 1960's

 

[sammy j]

It surprises me Defoe dosnt get More stick at whl , never understand fans booing the shirt . We do have some stupid fans booing at half time when things ain't going right . Personaly I hate watching Defoe and crouch before him but would never boo either