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John Pratt, Mark Falco, Jake Livermore

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
A question for you: what do John Pratt, Mark Falco, and Jake Livermore have in common. Answer: they were, or in Jakes case are, all the target of a section of our fans' displeasure. Thay have all, at some point, become the scapegoat for some perceived failing of our team. Plus they are all home-grown players.

I don't know if this is common in all clubs, but we Spurs fans seem to have a habit of targetting one player, usually one of our own, and criticising everything that he does. I first saw this with Pratt. Every mistake that he made was siezed upon by the crowd while if another player (Perryman, for example) made those same mistakes they would pass largely without comment.

This dubious mantle was then passed to Mark Falco. For those of you who don't remember him, Falco was an old-fashioned type of centre-forward. The purchases of Crooks, Archibald, and later Brazil, meant that he was never going to be a first team automatic choice, but - like Pratt before him and Livermore today - he always put in a shift. He also scored goals; quite a lot of them. But he wasn't as technically gifted as the others I've mentioned, and was never allowed to forget it.

I almost had a fight over Falco on the Shelf during the '84 UEFA Cup final. A nearby neanderthal shouted 'Falco you ****' when a shot missed. I asked him to desist (albeit not very politely) and pointed out that it was in fact Tony Galvin who had taken the shot. The shit-for-brains was offended by this and it almost came to blows. I can't remember why it didn't, although it's possible that my brother beat me to him. But it's a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about.

Jake Livermore is the latest. I have seen him described on one forum (not this one) as 'shit' and the same poster said that he 'does nothing'. (My response to these comments might get me banned from that forum). If he was 'shit' and 'did nothing' he would hardly be a member of a squad that sits third in the PL. In fact, he wouldn't be able to make a living from the game.

While he is not the most technically-accomplished player on our books, he has ability and he does a job - often well. He doesn't beat people like Dembele, he doesn't scuttle around everywehere like Parker (scuttling, by the way, being exactly what Parker does), and he doesn't dominate like Sandro. It doesn't make him a bad player; he's just different. He has a part to play, or AVB would have shipped him out - either on loan or permamnently.

Can we please lay off him? He's our player, and it's our job to support him. It's not his fault that he came through the ranks instead of being bought from a foreign club. He's not the best player we have, and some of you might think he's the worst; you're entitled to that opinion. But please don't treat him in the same way that Pratt and Falco were treated. We should be better than that.

Thanks for your time.
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
A question for you: what do John Pratt, Mark Falco, and Jake Livermore have in common. Answer: they were, or in Jakes case are, all the target of a section of our fans' displeasure. Thay have all, at some point, become the scapegoat for some perceived failing of our team. Plus they are all home-grown players.

I don't know if this is common in all clubs, but we Spurs fans seem to have a habit of targetting one player, usually one of our own, and criticising everything that he does. I first saw this with Pratt. Every mistake that he made was siezed upon by the crowd while if another player (Perryman, for example) made those same mistakes they would pass largely without comment.

This dubious mantle was then passed to Mark Falco. For those of you who don't remember him, Falco was and old-fashioned type of centre-forward. The purchases of Crooks, Archibald, and later Brazil, meant that he was never going to be a first team automatic choice, but - like Pratt befor him and Livermore today - he always put in a shift. He also scored goals; quite a lot of them. But he wasn't as technically gifted as the others I've mentioned, and was never allowed to forget it.

I almost had a fight over Falco on the Shelf during the '84 UEFA Cup final. A nearby neanderthal shouted 'Falco you ****' when a shot missed. I asked him to desist (albeit not very politely) and pointed out that it was in fact Tony Galvin who had taken the shot. The shit-for-brains was offended by this and it almost came to blows. I can't remember why it didn't, although it's possible that my brother beat me to him. But it's a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about.

Jake Livermore is the latest. I have seen him described on one forum (not this one) as 'shit' and the same poster said that he 'does nothing'. (My response to these comments might get me banned from that forum). If he was 'shit' and 'did nothing' he would hardly be a member of a squad that sits third in the PL. In fact, he wouldn't be able to make a living from the game.

While he is not the most technically-accomplished player on our books, he has ability and he does a job - often well. He doesn't beat people like Dembele, he doesn't scuttle around everywehere like Parker (scuttling, by the way, being exactly what Parker does), and he doesn't dominate like Sandro. It doesn't make him a bad player; he's just different. He has a part to play, or AVB would have shipped him out - either on loan or permamnently.

Can we please lay off him? He's our player, and it's our job to support him. It's not his fault that he came through the ranks instead of being bought from a foreign club. He's not the best player we have, and some of you might think he's the worst; you're entitled to that opinion. But please don't treat him in the same way that Pratt and Falco were treated. We should be better than that.

Thanks for your time.

Agreed with all that. Well done for reminding the rest of us.

He's possibly the least technically accomplished in the squad, yet is highly effective on what he does mainly - which is to protect the back 4. He's also been used as a RB and CB when we have been short of players - so he has more versatility and willingness than some other squad members.

With Sandro out for the season, he is one injury away from an automatic start for the first team. So very possibly no CL next season if he's not there or he becomes demotivated. Something to think about before someone opens their mouth to criticise him.

If he's wearing a Spurs shirt he should be supported.

Thank You.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
While the sentiments of this thread are good and I've given you a 'like' rating, it's about 2 years too late and contains the wrong player name. This thread should have been written about Jenas.

Livermore got far too much praise last year in my opinion, especially when some ****s started prattling on about how he was better than Parker and should have been in the side instead of him, I don't think he particularly gets a lot of stick so to speak, he always gets a loud cheer when he comes onto the pitch which is more than Jenas did, and Jenas achieved a lot more than Livermore ever will. I know Jenas wasn't Tottenham 'born and bred', but for me Livermore isn't getting stick, more people are just realising he isn't very good.

Nice thread though.
 

AngerManagement

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2004
12,518
2,739
He's obviously not shit, but I suspect ultimately he will not be up to the standard we need and will go on to have a career similar to Dean Marney or Jamie O'Hara

I like the fact he's a Spurs youth product and as is my understanding a Spurs supporter, I really want him to do well at the club at least as a squad member

My personal opinion based on what I have seen of him is he will not be good enough to stay a part of our squad long term if we continue to progress the way we have been but I geniunely hope he does make the grade

I too haven't really noticed him getting the level of abuse the OP suggests, John Pratt and Falco are both before my time but certaily Jenas makes a good modern day example of the type of abuse from fans the OP speaks of and I can't say I can agree that Livermore is subjected to anything like that
 

class of 62

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2009
1,408
1,197
consider what was before him !.. we'd just shook the world of English football by signing ossie & ricky!.. but the forwards wernt up to it where they!.. Armstrong , lee etc ..complete gub.. we sign Archibald & then the bonus of garth crooks & we play the "Tottenham" brand of football,, injuries & problems arise and local kid from hackney mark falco gets his chance & actually takes it.. he was never shit!.. he was part of a Tottenham side that finished 3rd in the football league.. something we havn't done since.
cant wait to finish 3rd again & call a player shit . possibly not for Neville southall it would have been runners up!
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Falco should be loved forever for this



I was at that game.

consider what was before him !.. we'd just shook the world of English football by signing ossie & ricky!.. but the forwards wernt up to it where they!.. Armstrong , lee etc ..complete gub.. we sign Archibald & then the bonus of garth crooks & we play the "Tottenham" brand of football,, injuries & problems arise and local kid from hackney mark falco gets his chance & actually takes it.. he was never shit!.. he was part of a Tottenham side that finished 3rd in the football league.. something we havn't done since.
cant wait to finish 3rd again & call a player shit . possibly not for Neville southall it would have been runners up!


Falco was an OK finisher, but the rest of his game was pretty poor. He was slow and there was very little wit about his game. He was just a decent target man who benefitted from playing in a very good side.
 

Annabel

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2005
2,373
4,777
Annabel, I remember that game and especially that goal very well. :)

I was too young to be at the games then, but I remember my Uncle & Cousin phoning home to my Mum to ask what celebration sweets I wanted, apparently I wanted a flake and a bottle of coke. My Uncle brought 15 flakes & a crate of coke!

If I ever get diabetes, it's Falco's fault. Or possibly Jenas.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
I was at that game.




Falco was an OK finisher, but the rest of his game was pretty poor. He was slow and there was very little wit about his game. He was just a decent target man who benefitted from playing in a very good side.

Very unfair I'd take Falco in the current team ahead of either Defoe or Adebayor.
 
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