Career Killers?

[Dr Know]

Are we going to be known as career killers? I heard something on the radio and someone on there was saying that Victor Moses should not go to Spurs as we are career killers. They mentioned Rose, Bostock, Pav, Gio, Livermore, even O'Hara as the players that would benefit from leaving Spurs or looking back should never have joined! The guy said the proof is KPB going to Pompey and is now one of their best players.

In our defence one guy on there said Bostock was not ready to move to a big club and Bentley killed his own career. He also said that we would find it difficult to attract good players this window because of the reputation we seem to be getting


If this is the way we are going to be seen as a club then we're truly screwed.

I think its a bit harsh but it does make you think though :roll:

 

[mil1lion]

We've also proven to be a good move for young players too. Huddlestone and Lennon for example. Dawson was young when he joined, and now he is stand in captain. Bassong is pretty young for a defender. Modric and Corluka are in their early twenties. We have a relatively young squad, and there are plenty of players who have done well for us. Sure, there are a number of players who haven't made it. But every club gets those. I think the biggest problem over the years has been the number of managers we keep changing. We need consistency to help these youngsters settle. But the likes of Rose and Bostock are still too young to tell at this point. They could still break through. Rose looks to be getting closer to the first team.

And lets not forget that we loan a number of these players out. We sign them young because we want to get hold of them early before their value rises. There's nothing wrong with that. Its worth taking the risk when you pick up the sort of bargains we did with Lennon and Huddlestone.

 

[sunnydelight786]

Mil1lion you could argue we have disrupted the development of Naughton/Bale/GDS/Bostock/Kaboul/A.Reid/Etc by the way we have treated them/not given them more of a chance/time to develop.

 

[dontcallme]

When people decide to join us they shuld be intelligent enough to see it is a risk. I remember some saying we ruined Routledge but we signed two right wingers at the same time and they needed to compete with each other. Routledge lost, his problem not ours.

Sport is obviously very competitive and in recent years talented players need to compete just to get into contention for a chance at clubs like the sky 4 and ourselves.

If players put their playing careers ahead of their bank balance they would choose to stay at a club where they are getting first team football and then when they are up to standard they can look to move to a bigger club. I dread to think of how many talented young British players never amounted to anything because they joined a big club too young and never got a chance. We've seen with our own Peter Crouch how a few years playing and learning can help an average talent make something of himself.

Hopefully Harry has helped our situation by buying young talent and therefore giving them a better wage and then loaning them out so they can get playing time in competitive games. The likes of Taarabt, Gio etc may not get to play much for us at the moment but it's the risk of joining a club like Spurs. Many players like Huddlestone, Lennon and Dawson have benefitted by joining us early and showing early that they are capable of performing at Premiership level.

 

[PT]

The art of identifying, purchasing for a resaonable fee and then educating to a first team standard of a young starlet is decidedly hazardous and the budget set aside for such an exercise is not set to offer up a high return.

Players like Naughton and Bostock have been attracted to Spurs because we promote youth and have a world class set up to offer them the best chance of a high standard of football.

Those that don't make it are usually players that can't handle the mental side of Premiership requirements and of a first team that insists on playing for trophies, not survival.

 

[mil1lion]

Its a difficult one to judge. Is it for the lack of opportunities or is it the lack of effort from the young lads? The players have to take as much responsibility as anyone else. Bottom line is, if these young players get their heads down and work hard in training, Harry will give them opportunities. Its up to them to fight for their right to play. We cant just gve these player opportunities in the League for the sake of it, because you can get punished at this level. But they do get chances in Cup games. Sure, someone like Naughton hasn't had a sniff yet. But its up to him to either ask for a loan, or to fight for the first team. Lets not forget, these players chose to join Spurs. they know we're a big club. So they shouldn't expect an easy ride. They need to understand that by joining a big club like Spurs, they are going to have to up their game and work hard for it.

 

[donny1013]

I like what Mancini has done recently, partly down to injuries, but throwing in players like Boyata, Ibrahim and Cunningham in recent games. I think certainly in cup games it's something that I would like to see, getting a balance between youth and experience in the side would be very beneficial to players like Naughton, Bostock etc.

 

[There's always next year]

When you have a manger who has said he would like to bring in David James (39), Sol Campbell (36) and Ruud Van Nistelroy(34), you would start worrying if you were a youngster looking start your career under him.

 

[Azazello]

That seems a bit harsh - it's not like Routledge has set the Premiership alight! Boateng may be Portsmouth's best player but they are bottom so maybe that's just damning him with faint praise.

Maybe it''s just partly a function of our recent very high turnover.

I'm sure plenty of us would like to see more opportunities for some of the younger players but that's as much down to them as it is Harry.

 

[striebs]

When people decide to join us they shuld be intelligent enough to see it is a risk. I remember some saying we ruined Routledge but we signed two right wingers at the same time and they needed to compete with each other. Routledge lost, his problem not ours.

Sport is obviously very competitive and in recent years talented players need to compete just to get into contention for a chance at clubs like the sky 4 and ourselves.

If players put their playing careers ahead of their bank balance they would choose to stay at a club where they are getting first team football and then when they are up to standard they can look to move to a bigger club. I dread to think of how many talented young British players never amounted to anything because they joined a big club too young and never got a chance. We've seen with our own Peter Crouch how a few years playing and learning can help an average talent make something of himself.

Hopefully Harry has helped our situation by buying young talent and therefore giving them a better wage and then loaning them out so they can get playing time in competitive games. The likes of Taarabt, Gio etc may not get to play much for us at the moment but it's the risk of joining a club like Spurs. Many players like Huddlestone, Lennon and Dawson have benefitted by joining us early and showing early that they are capable of performing at Premiership level.

Think you have summed it up perfectly .


Do players put up with the bench for better wages ?

Or is it that once a club has invested so much money it is difficult for the player to extricate themselves ?

 

[Dr Know]

So do we think other players young and older will still look at Spurs as a good move? The Pav situation is not his fault IMO. Gus has been saying he has always been a difficult player to motivate so didn't the club know this before they bought him? now Harry come out and said if he could do more he would play more but its always been his way (from what Gus said). Then we got Gio who I thought played well every time I've seen him but can't get a game. Bentley was hot property at B/Burn and we all thought he could do a job for us, now he just looks like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
So if you were a good player would Spurs be a club you would consider? I think its more to do with the agents. They just want the players to go to who pays the most dosh so they get a bigger fee.

I just feel we don't have the pull to bring in the type of players that will get us where we all would like to be

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Ok, here's some Careers I'm pretty sure we haven't killed:

Paul Robinson went from uncapped to England number 1 under us.

Ekotto is an international fullback and a otp premiership defender now, previously he was a promising but faulty young left back.

Dawson was an injury prone lower league centre back before we signed him.

Bassong had just been relegated in an awful defence when we signed him.

Lennon was yet another young Leeds player and no more, now he's Englands first choice right winger.

Tom Huddlestone was just a promising youngster, we've slowly integrated him into being our first choice and and England cap too.

Jermain Defoe was a youngster scoring goals in the championship and getting sent off regularly.

Michael Carrick was a promising kid who helped get West Ham relegated and now is a playmaker at Englands biggest club.

Dimitar Berbatov was a good striker in the Bundesliga, nothing more, and took a few months to do it for us as well. Now he leads the line for Englands biggest club.

I could think of more I'm sure.

I could live with saying we've fucked up Pav and Gio, but O'Hara and Livermore? Really? O'Hara would have dropped down the leagues long ago but for out perseverance with him, while Livermore is only recently on anybodies radar anyway. As for Bostock, we signed him less than 2 years ago as a 16 year old, anybody who expected him to be anywhere near the first team by now is kidding themselves.

Oh, and Danny Rose? Bollocks to that, he's being integrated slowly but surely and at the expense of other like players who perhaps have more potential and ability.

 

[Bulletspur]

It may be harsh but I suspect that there is an element of truth as its something I have thought about before this thread. IMO most managers including Harry have their favourites players who they do not rate or like, especiially if they were not responsible for their purchase. These players are left always left on the bench or not even picked in the squad, where they are slowly forgotten abvout until your read they have been loaned out or sold to ABC Utd. This is even compounded or seems far worse as there have been alot of changes in managers over the years.

No one can convince that if either, Wenger, Ferguson and even O'neil had been picking Gioor Pav and the likes for the bench, that they would not have the confidence and tactical nuance to give him a run out in some games in order to aid their development.

 

[14/04/91]

Do Upson, Pennant, Bentley, Richard Wright, Reyes and Jeffers make Arsenal career killers?
There's examples everywhere. The names mentioned in the OP are generally too young to make a call on.

 

[worcestersauce]

Do Upson, Pennant, Bentley, Richard Wright, Reyes and Jeffers make Arsenal career killers?
There's examples everywhere. The names mentioned in the OP are generally too young to make a call on.

Spot on, how have we killed the career of teenagers? they are still building their careers and there's plenty of ex United youndsters out there too.

 

[riversmonkey]

Isn't luck, and making the most of your limited opportunities a lot do to with making it? For instance O'Hara, a couple of years ago after having a decent loan spell came back full of confidence and broke into the first team picture, but it helped that he could slot into a variety of roles (centrally in midfield, left midfield and left back). Bassong was signed presumably as cover, yet was thrust into the starting XI due to injuries and performed admirably.

It seems hard to imagine when Naughton might get a chance, what with Corluka and Hutton ahead of him in the pecking order. Bostock also has to contend with Jenas, Huddlestone and Palacios. Livermore and Parrett even further down the pecking order might have to start thinking about moving elsewhere.

 

[NEVILLEB]

There are a few players who never really got a chance. But the majority never really worked hard enough to force themselves into the team.

Pav is a good player but lazy...if he wanted to be in the 1st team all he had to do is work hard and listen.

Dos Santos just hasn't been given a chance...Harry is guilty of favouritism here

 

[DoublePivot]

I think as BBLG has listed, we can help a career that is already on the up. Not always, but his examples are good. Other than perhaps for Robbo, who while we helped build, we definitely destroyed.

However for the kids, we do impede their careers. We're like gas additive in that we can help a car go faster. We need to be like gas and help some cars start. Lennon and Huddlestone have been the only two we have nurtured from saplings to very good players. But why was this? Because we gave them a chance. However, all those chances started with Jol. He seemed willing to give youth a chance. Sometimes it kicked him in the balls like Routledge, but he was the one that gave Dawson, Bale, the above two and even Carrick the chance to shine. They took it.

Now we don't give anybody a chance. We are loaded with talent at the u20 level. We could probably start two teams in lower divisions with our loanees alone. Will all of it make it? God no, but some of them will. Harry freezing out Gunter is starting to show as incompetence as the kids has been excellent in Nottingham Forest's resurrection and hopefully he will be starting in the Prem next season.

From what I remember, Bostock has been given two games, Rose one and that's about it. I loved Livermore in the preseason and thought he could have well been the guy to backup Wilson. Immediately shipped off and doing well. Now we have to buy. TAH is being brought back because of our issues at CB, but I doubt we will see him unless something really bad happens and we don't sign a player. Naughton is aptly named and Rose won't see the pitch again even though both could help late to run at tired defenses with Lennon out.

It's ridiculous. Harry has some definite strengths but youth isn't one. He's proven that he will only play kids when forced. Perhaps that is the upside of having no money to spend on players. He might be forced to capitulate.

We lost Delph because of not being a youth friendly organization. I imagine we may well lose Moses (although him actually being contemporaries of Kanu might work in his favor) for the same reason. We just need to find a balance. You can't win with kids, but you can't build without them either.

 

[StartingPrice]

Ok, here's some Careers I'm pretty sure we haven't killed:

Paul Robinson went from uncapped to England number 1 under us.

Ekotto is an international fullback and a otp premiership defender now, previously he was a promising but faulty young left back.

Dawson was an injury prone lower league centre back before we signed him.

Bassong had just been relegated in an awful defence when we signed him.

Lennon was yet another young Leeds player and no more, now he's Englands first choice right winger.

Tom Huddlestone was just a promising youngster, we've slowly integrated him into being our first choice and and England cap too.

Jermain Defoe was a youngster scoring goals in the championship and getting sent off regularly.

Michael Carrick was a promising kid who helped get West Ham relegated and now is a playmaker at Englands biggest club.

Dimitar Berbatov was a good striker in the Bundesliga, nothing more, and took a few months to do it for us as well. Now he leads the line for Englands biggest club.

I could think of more I'm sure.

I could live with saying we've fucked up Pav and Gio, but O'Hara and Livermore? Really? O'Hara would have dropped down the leagues long ago but for out perseverance with him, while Livermore is only recently on anybodies radar anyway. As for Bostock, we signed him less than 2 years ago as a 16 year old, anybody who expected him to be anywhere near the first team by now is kidding themselves.

Oh, and Danny Rose? Bollocks to that, he's being integrated slowly but surely and at the expense of other like players who perhaps have more potential and ability.

Leads the line, or flounces about in the wake of Wayne Rooney who LEADS the line:shrug:

I think what should concern us is not whether we have been career killers, but whether young potential signings perceive us to be career killers. Part of this argument is not where players are but where they may have been if they hadn't joined us...so it is wholly spurious to look to players like Routeledge adn say he hasn't set the world on fire. The point is he arrived at the Lane far to yong, after been warned of the potential consequences. That warning proved prophetic as he failed to get sufficient game time, with which he may have developed into a totally different player. This situation has happened all too often at our club, and one of the attractions of 'Arry was that he was a coach who would give the younglings a go - but he seems slightly reluctant to do this. Maybe he is far more results focussed, or maybe he was determined into this policy at WetSpam. But we really are getting a bit of a rep., rightly or wrongly, for this.

 

[spudtrader]

before gio joined us, about one and a half years ago, he was getting games at barca. I can't help but think if we had bought say aaron ramsey, he would not played in half the amount of games he has for the arse.
As an up and coming youngster you would be looking to join teams like Arsenal, Hammers maybe everton, wish we gave more of our youngsters a chance. Although i have to say, give harry a few years, then judge him, once we have a bit of stability an all.