Berba

[Legend10]

Zokora has the 1st touch of a battleship!

 

[McFlash]

I'd just like to add my tuppence worth on the King debate...
As has been mentioned on this site before, Henry himself stated that King was one of, if not the best defender that he has played against. One of the few that has the speed and skill to nick the ball off your toes without having to resort to shirt grabbing, wrestling and kicking.
I think that he's the best in the Prem (if only he could stay fit).

 

[LadieK]

re technical skill he's right up there - as I've said on many a thread he's the classic Spurs artist - the very embodiment of the spirit of Greaves Hoddle and Ginola
-

Well said. Ginola-esque in many ways, he embodies the perfect entertainer!

Berbatov does remind me of bergkamp. His touch is class and he's an 'elegant' player who looks like he's playing in slow motion sometimes, as did Bergkamp. In terms of technical ability though I think C.Ronaldo and L.Messi are streets ahead but for a 'big man' up front type of player, then Berba is in a world of his own at the moment.

I think also it's the fact that he can do almost anything. He can thread a pass to split the defense. He can smack one in from 35 yards out. He can jump and header the ball well. He can act as a Target Man and feed the midfield into the game and his overall finishing is top notch. I guess Berba's ONLY weakness is he's attitude sometimes....

He is a WORLD CLASS PLAYER who could grace ANY team in Europe!!!

I agree with everything you said there. Whilst I understand completely where he comes from with his attitude, it can at time dishearten the fans. He is very Berkamp like as well though, and Henry like in that players can't get the ballf rom him without fouling him!!!!

I'm really struggling with some people saying that gallas is either as good or better than King.

Gallas has been absolutely owned in some games, he is in no way better than King and at times actually looks lost when he has to play without Toure to hold his hand.

Spot on! How the hell is Gallas better the Ledley? Gallas rates himself way too highly, he thinks he's the manager not a player! He siad recently "I don't worry about my own performances, only those of my players" HELLO??

King is miles better. Regarding Carvalho? Calvalho is a dirty cheating defender, a criminal if you will.

Ledley? He keeps it clean but gets the job done pretty much every time. He can play a killer ball too, no like some we could mention who hit it and hope! He's the prefect defender!

 

[tRiKS]

No. Nowhere close imo. If Gallas was that good Chelsea would've broken the bank to keep him.

and jenas couldn't meg King like he did to gallas. Gallas can be shambolic King is never shambolicnor would King sit on the half way line when the opposition have a penalty that is terrible defending.
Carvahlo on occasion over-commits to a challange and even goes two footed!!! missing the man or getting yourself sent off are two things you won't see King do either.

Capello is gagging to put King in his starting line up.

 

[walworthyid]

King is better than Ferdinand. Wes Brown is better than Ferdinand. Gallas and Carvalho are both as good as King.

Back to Berbs now.... If we had Trezeguet fo feed off Berbs we'd be even more free scoring than we are now

You are joking. Gallas is a fullback who thinks he should play at centre back. He is quick, leds is quicker, he is strong, leds is stronger, he is decent in the air, leds is imperious, he can play a bit, leds could play any position in the back 4 or in centre mid and leds can pass the ball. No contest I am afraid.

Ledley King is by FAR the best CB in the prem. At his very best, which is basically all of the time, he is virtually flawless.

As for berbo, if he had somebody mobile and muscular up front with him he would be devastating. He is the best striker in the prem, not the best player because that is Ronaldo, but he is the best striker.

 

[Disconosebleed]

Spot on! How the hell is Gallas better the Ledley? Gallas rates himself way too highly, he thinks he's the manager not a player! He siad recently "I don't worry about my own performances, only those of my players" HELLO??

King is miles better. Regarding Carvalho? Calvalho is a dirty cheating defender, a criminal if you will.

Neither of these points relate to how good they are. They relate to how much you dislike them. Gallas is an arsehole, and Carvalho is a cheat...doesn't mean they aren't both fantastic defenders.

The Italians have consistently bred excellent centre halves over the years, as have the Argentinians, and they are almost all, to a man, cheating bastards. The Italians are notoriously sly and devious in their cheating, while the Argentinians are just dirty and cynical...but does that make Nesta or Ayala less of a defender? If anything it makes them what they are, IMO.

Ledley is a fantastic defender, I'm not disputing that...one of the best in the Premiership. Possibly one of the best in the world, depending on your criteria...but for me, he's not one of, say, the best five in the world, which means he's not one of the best. And, seeing as without doubt I'll be asked to name five who are better:

Ferdinand
Gallas
Carvalho
Cannavaro
Nesta
Maldini
Ramos

That's seven, and I would argue that on their day the likes of Puyol, Marquez, Thuram etc are better as well. I would say Ledley is on a slightly lower level alongside the likes of Toure, Metzelder, Chivu, perhaps lesser known players like Ibanez and Vidic.

As for those who continue to downplay Ferdinand's abilities...frankly, you're wrong. Comfortably the best English defender, in fact comfortably the best English defender in the time I've been watching football. The idea of him being lazy or lacking in concentration are false, presumably based on the calm, languid way in which he plays football - I imagine the people of this opinion are the same players who think that Berbatov is lazy. I think he is another example of a player whose personality is confused with his ability - people dislike him, therefore they try to pretend he isn't a quality defender.

He has it all, and in the past year or so has made Vidic look an excellent defender as well - Vidic got so many plaudits last year, but only Hansen one night on MOTD highlighted just how good Ferdinand makes him look, showing a number of examples from a few games where Ferdinand's play had covered for Vidic when he was out of position. I think, to an extent, Ferdinand's excellence is what leads to people having a go at him - he is so frequently faultless that this becomes the expectation of him, and when he drops beneath that level for a moment he is jumped on.

 

[Bobbins]

King is a better player than Berbatov, Flatters is right about that.

Berbatov IMO is not as technically gifted as either Ronaldo or Kaka, or Ronaldinho. People seem to forget the constant mistakes he makes with his control and first touch, and his subsequent touches. For every moment of genius (and there are a lot) there is a wayward pass, a poor second touch, a slip, a mis-control.

We don't seem to notice these much, since he's our player, and also because he tends to catch the eye far more with what he does right, than what he does wrong.

He's a brilliant, brilliant footballer, there's no doubting that. But he's not consistent enough to be rated alongside the best in the world at the moment and his pure technical ability, while right up there near the top, is again not consistently evident enough to make him the best in the world, by some way.

 

[eViL]

Our star player needs to show a little more of his quality at the moment if you ask me.

 

[Flatters]

Our star player needs to show a little more of his quality at the moment if you ask me.

I think he's showing plenty. It's the whole team, as a team, that needs to step it up.

 

[double0]

Don't get me wrong, Berbatov is a good player BUT i don't think he goes that extra mile like Robbie Keane who has become a better player/striker then Berbatov. In the PSV game Berbatov should have been subbed as he started to moan and sulk when not getting ref decisions for Bent.

 

[Flatters]

Don't get me wrong, Berbatov is a good player BUT i don't think he goes that extra mile like Robbie Keane who has become a better player/striker then Berbatov. In the PSV game Berbatov should have been subbed as he started to moan and sulk when not getting ref decisions for Bent.

Keane is not a better player/striker/anything than Berba. :lol:

 

[Legend10]

Keane is not a better player/striker/anything than Berba. :lol:

That is so obvious that I think even Keane would admit it.

 

[double0]

Keane is not a better player/striker/anything than Berba. :lol:

Honestly I thought i'd be the last person the rate Keane over Berbatov but this season Keane has been the main man....and Berbatov hasn't IMO matched his performances of last.

 

[orkneyspur]

Keane is not a better player/striker/anything than Berba. :lol:

Sorry Flatters, but if you're going to be so emphatic, then I must disagree. Robbie is a better team player, better goal scorer and certainly a better overall forward player than Berbs. The one thing that Berbatov has over Robbie is his first touch. With that, he can beat any player on the pitch, it's what he does the rest of the time that Robbie excels.
In a way, and I hate going back to this, it's the Greaves/Gilzean comparison all over again. Jimmy was the greatest goalscorer Spurs have ever had and ever will have, however, Gilly had the touch of a master. Even Berbs would learn of off Gilly.
I get so frustrated that Berbatov has the mental strength of a five year old. :evil:

 

[Flatters]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I'm just astounded that you disagree. I'd say the only thing Keane has over Berba is "passion".

 

[LadieK]

Neither of these points relate to how good they are. They relate to how much you dislike them. Gallas is an arsehole, and Carvalho is a cheat...doesn't mean they aren't both fantastic defenders.

The Italians have consistently bred excellent centre halves over the years, as have the Argentinians, and they are almost all, to a man, cheating bastards. The Italians are notoriously sly and devious in their cheating, while the Argentinians are just dirty and cynical...but does that make Nesta or Ayala less of a defender? If anything it makes them what they are, IMO.

Ledley is a fantastic defender, I'm not disputing that...one of the best in the Premiership. Possibly one of the best in the world, depending on your criteria...but for me, he's not one of, say, the best five in the world, which means he's not one of the best. And, seeing as without doubt I'll be asked to name five who are better:

Ferdinand
Gallas
Carvalho
Cannavaro
Nesta
Maldini
Ramos

That's seven, and I would argue that on their day the likes of Puyol, Marquez, Thuram etc are better as well. I would say Ledley is on a slightly lower level alongside the likes of Toure, Metzelder, Chivu, perhaps lesser known players like Ibanez and Vidic.

As for those who continue to downplay Ferdinand's abilities...frankly, you're wrong. Comfortably the best English defender, in fact comfortably the best English defender in the time I've been watching football. The idea of him being lazy or lacking in concentration are false, presumably based on the calm, languid way in which he plays football - I imagine the people of this opinion are the same players who think that Berbatov is lazy. I think he is another example of a player whose personality is confused with his ability - people dislike him, therefore they try to pretend he isn't a quality defender.

He has it all, and in the past year or so has made Vidic look an excellent defender as well - Vidic got so many plaudits last year, but only Hansen one night on MOTD highlighted just how good Ferdinand makes him look, showing a number of examples from a few games where Ferdinand's play had covered for Vidic when he was out of position. I think, to an extent, Ferdinand's excellence is what leads to people having a go at him - he is so frequently faultless that this becomes the expectation of him, and when he drops beneath that level for a moment he is jumped on.

You raise a good point to begin with with regards to me not making valid points as to why Gallas and Carvalho are not up to the same level as Ledley and as this is a Berba thread I didn't go in to it too much.

Just to say though, I rate Ledley MUCH higher than either of them, based on how they all play, not just their attitudes / cheatingisms (yes it's a word). Ledley for me is the ultimate defender, the ultimate leader.

 

[snake1]

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I'm just astounded that you disagree. I'd say the only thing Keane has over Berba is "passion".

He takes on, and beats players more often than Berba does, too.

 

[Berbati]

Sorry Flatters, but if you're going to be so emphatic, then I must disagree. Robbie is a better team player, better goal scorer and certainly a better overall forward player than Berbs. The one thing that Berbatov has over Robbie is his first touch. With that, he can beat any player on the pitch, it's what he does the rest of the time that Robbie excels.
In a way, and I hate going back to this, it's the Greaves/Gilzean comparison all over again. Jimmy was the greatest goalscorer Spurs have ever had and ever will have, however, Gilly had the touch of a master. Even Berbs would learn of off Gilly.
I get so frustrated that Berbatov has the mental strength of a five year old. :evil:

Add to that Berbatov's physical attributes: bigger and stronger. Then add Berbatov's ability to hold up the ball under pressure. Then add his vision and skills to link up the play. Then add the fact that Berbatov is 2-3 classes above Keane when it comes to win headers and to defend from set pieces etc.

When one compares Berba and Keane and asks the question about "the one thing" one of them has over the other, one should mean Keane because Berbatov is better in almost every department of the game: physically, technically, vision wise etc. I'm sure Keane knows it pretty well. And Ramos knows it, too.

 

[DC_Boy]

hi Orkney interesting points but Berbs is deffo better than Keane - he's better in the air, he's stronger, he makes more goals and generally links up play better,

I think over their career they're probably about level as goalscorers - this season Keane has edged it but only partly cos of Berbs not taking as many penalties- and I know who I wanted taking that 'million pound penalty' at Wembley - Berbs and Keane have similar pace but I think Berbs can can get past his man by power and pace and technique better than Keane -

most tellingly Berbs is worth a lot more than Keane and is coveted by bigger clubs than Keane - why - cos he's better- though of course I like Keano -

 

[Kendall]

Carvalho showed today exactly why he's nowhere near Ledley King.

Carvalho has the benefit of playing with a fairly solid midfield and other good players around him. He wouldn't get in our first 11 ahead of Woody or King.