A View from the Outside

[Spurvert]

It's hard for us at times to take of our rose or otherwise tinted glasses when looking at Spurs. Sometimes it's good to get a fresh perspective on things. Probably no better a time than now.

This is the view of a United fan from their Red Cafe forum with possibly the best posts I've read from an opposing fan on Spurs in a long time. In case you missed them here they are, feel free to discuss...

He'd taken them as far as Tottenham could go. That's what in my opinion fans of all clubs, not just Spurs and the media get things wrong. In my opinion the majority of people who follow football don't seem to recognize the extent to which a club is limited by it's financial strength. The fact this thread exist kind of demonstrates that. Spurs will have the 7th highest wage bill and will finish in the top 7. They will be way behind the other 6 teams in the top 7 in terms of wages and turnover. Yet apparently they are apparently becoming a bit of a joke. They are actually doing perfectly well, in fact possible a bit better than they should be given their size.

The idea that Redknapp had taken them as far as he could seems flawed to me as it suggests another manager could have taken them even further, which when you look at how things are in football these days, that is hugely unlikely. When you look at the size of their wage bill it would incredibly hard to attract better players. They've tried on several occasions to higher "tactical coaches" to bridge the gap, but anyone who still believes in them is deluded if you ask me.

The truth is under Redknapp they over achieved and he was rightly lauded in the media, though this didn't sit well with lots of football fans as he isn't popular. Now they are still doing well all things considered. There net transfer spend over the last 5 years is very low and their spending on wages is much lower than the teams above them. They just don't have the scale to threaten at the top of the league. You need to be amssive club that can generate a huge income or be owned by wealthy benefactors.

Ultimately Spurs seem to consistently finish top of the also rans, which actually shows how well run they are. Yet due to their relatively large fan base and tradition they manage to somehow keep themselves seemingly relevant in discussions about who is going to win things each season and fight for the top 4. This makes them look like perennial losers, when if anything, for close to a decade now they have been one of the most effectively run clubs in the world. The truth is Spurs board should be congratulated, but they don't actually want that. They've got a nice little business model going and it's very well served by everyone talking about them as failed big club, rather than the truth, which is a very successful mid sized club. Levy and ENIC bought the club for about £30 million and have since gone about turning it into a £300-£400 million club, by keeping their fans believing they are close. They've built a brilliant training facility, have plans for a great stadium which Levy seems to be using every trick in the book to make others pay for and they have consistent European football and flirt with the big boys. But even though between them they are very wealthy, there is no chance Levy and Lewis would do what is needed to give Spurs a real chance of success.

Levy is by far the most intelligent man in football. He's got a 1st class honours degree from Cambridge for one thing and I doubt anyone else could boast that. The near perfect correlation between overall spending and success wont have been missed by him. He knows what it really takes to be successful and therefore can't have any serious expectations. But as long as he keeps people thinking he has and keeps doing the great job he is (and consistent top 6 finished is a great job) and all the while people considering it a failure, then his investment will grow. Before he took over Spurs were well behind the likes of Leeds, Villa and Newcastle. Now a sponsor would probably pay nearly twice as much to have their names on a Spurs shirt that any of those clubs, or the naming rights for their stadium will go for so much more. Top players actually consider and sometimes sign for Spurs. Ramos was the most sort after manager in Europe and he went there! LVG probably will go there. Everyone always believes that Spurs are on the brink. They've made a brand from it. You look at the growth markets of football around the world and Spurs will have a presence yet no other "also ran" will. The key to this is that they have convinced everyone they have the potential to go to the next level, when in reality they are doing superbly well to be where they are.
Modern Premiership football is about money. What has happened to Spurs actually proves than more than anything. Look at how well they did investing a good young talent and finding value abroad. They went from mid table failures to CL challengers and when their time came look what happened. Man City over night became the wealthiest club in the world. Spurs have finished in the top 5 for the last 4 seasons and would have been in the CL every year had Man City not come along. They'd have done so on a far lower budget than anyone else, yet instead of Premier League football fans acknowledging this and crediting them for a great job, they are seen as a joke. That's the reality of Prem football. You spend years improving your squad, investing in the clubs future with a brilliant new training facility and instead of getting rewarded for it, a rich Arab comes along and people say you failed and should have done what Dortmund did!
Also it's naive to think you can judge their spending at such an early stage. As I pointed out Spurs have a recent history of buying players and developing them. After his first season at Spurs would anyone have thought a year later we'd pay £18.6 million for Michael Carrick. Modric was considered a disappointment after his first season, but went on to become the best CM in the league. Bale struggled for his first 2 or 3 seasons before becoming the best player in the league. Spurs finished 5th in 2006/7 but then finished 8th and 9th the following seasons, it looked like they'd spent badly, but this was the period in which they bought Bale and Modric. They then finished 4 times in the top in a row. Would it really surprise you if a couple of Spurs signings went on the be major success's? I doubt anyone would be in shock if in 2 years from now Eriksen and Lamela are among the most sort after players in Europe. I think calling them a joke based on their summer spending is very premature especially given their recent history.

It's not as if Spurs can go out and spend a £100 million on top quality players. They don't pay the wages for that. They have to buy players who fit into their wage structure and that usually means buying younger players and players from outside the big 3 leagues. These players often take a year or two to adapt to a new league. For example, Lamela was their biggest signing and he's been injured for most of the season and is only 21. You can hardly call him a flop. Capoue has been injured for most of the season. Chiriches was doing well for them, but he too is now a long term injured player. Both Eriksen, Chadli and Paulinho are all new to the league, but at times have all shown their quality. But they will need time. The only one who can be seen as a real let down is Soldaldo. Even though it's his first season, he just doesn't seem to be a good fit for this league. Last season our fans would have said Cleverly and Welbeck are better than Henderson and Strurridge.

Ultimately you can't expect a club like Spurs to go out and buy a load of top quality players. Their entire model, which has seen them become CL challengers and meant they can spend £100 million is one window, has been built on buying players before they are ready to make a big impact. If in two years time they are mid table and their signings didn't work out, you can say they are a joke. But at the moment the very fact they were able to spend £100 in one window and still break even should actually be inspiring to an Everton fan.

 

[Gedson100]

Tell him Man Utd are currently bottom of the 'also rans'

But seriously, lot of truth in that...

 

[djee]

Thanks mate.

A brilliant read.

 

[WhiteHart4Ever]

He's making some very good points, though rash decision on hiring and firing and lack of consistency in, erm, governance models (i.e. technical director, director of football, manager, first team coach) are the elements that are making us a little bit of a joke. Having said that I agree that our achievements the last decade have been impressive considering where we came for and what and who we've had to fight.

 

[dudu]

Great article. Its been a pretty nothing season, we all know it, but really, the hysteria is just not in line with what peoples expectations should have been.

 

[vavaboom]

Fantastic read.

 

[Gassin's finest]

 

[daveduvet]

Good find...
Honest assessment; one I pretend doesn't exist but always lurks in the shadows of my mind... One saving grace is I'm not as deluded as a Villa fan... Some of their forum stuff posted here over last summer was fantastic reading..
Thought we ran yesterday's game..and Ade was outstanding at times. COYS

 

[DiscoD1882]

amazing that a man united fan can see this. But most spurs fans cant. we should feel a little ashamed of ourselves.

Great article.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

The thing is if Tottenham were an American sporting franchise we would be everyone's second club as they love an underdog. We just don't get viewed as an underdog in this country because fans here hate statistics.

 

[dagraham]

A very intelligent post there and a lot of truth in it. I think most Spurs fans realise this but are just frustrated that we've blown our chance to establish ourselves when we had the opportunity. I don't think we needed oil money either.

Also, the endless changing of systems, politics and interference behind the scenes has nothing to do with financial resources.

 

[CheeseGromit]

The article is pretty good to a point

If it held true all the time there would no change in the status quo and things (everywhere) would stay the same

You need to find game changers that disrupt normal. Although Levy has had limited success I think he tries, English spine, youth, gamble on a manager; all different from the norm. Bale did something different for us last season Suarez for bindippers this . IF RM steal Suarez / Sturridge or Sterling will they be as strong next ?

I do however think he underestimates the power of a really good manager. The season before last there were 3 available Martinez Rogers and AVB He chose AVB At the time it could have been a brave stoke of genius but it has not turned out that way. We need to allow a strong individual lead the playing side of the club ( but remember Moyes) to establish a foothold

The club are doing good things especially the foundation

We must keep striving to change the natural order of events And have a new stadium

 

[absolute bobbins]

I like the article but it's missing one crucial point that should have been expanded on, the stadium that we are building (very slowly) is so that the club can actually compete on a more equal playing field.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Give it a couple of hours and the Levy Out brigade will stumble across this thread, not bother reading the article and start slinging baseless accusations at the board and act like we're all mental.

It's a good summing up of our position right now, clearly a reasonably savvy fan of football in general.

 

[Wirral Spurs]

The article is pretty good to a point

If it held true all the time there would no change in the status quo and things (everywhere) would stay the same

You need to find game changers that disrupt normal. Although Levy has had limited success I think he tries, English spine, youth, gamble on a manager; all different from the norm. Bale did something different for us last season Suarez for bindippers this . IF RM steal Suarez / Sturridge or Sterling will they be as strong next ?

I do however think he underestimates the power of a really good manager. The season before last there were 3 available Martinez Rogers and AVB He chose AVB At the time it could have been a brave stoke of genius but it has not turned out that way. We need to allow a strong individual lead the playing side of the club ( but remember Moyes) to establish a foothold

The club are doing good things especially the foundation

We must keep striving to change the natural order of events And have a new stadium

As a United supporter, I'm not sure he does!!!
Good points though, the Stadium is the game changer in my opinion.

 

[Marty]

This really needs to stay as high as possible so the Out-brigade might actually find it.

I still can't shake the feeling that we've wasted a fantastic opportunity over the last four years and the way we've played this season and the personell we have is making me feel increasingly disconnected to the club. Yet I would much rather have our "crisis" experience now than Villa's after they sacked O'Neill, for example.

We're not in crisis, it just feels like it.

 

[SteveH]

amazing that a man united fan can see this. But most spurs fans cant. we should feel a little ashamed of ourselves.

Great article.

I'm a little ashamed of quite a few on here. The "Levy out" attitude is a cancer at this club.

 

[scat1620]

Give it a couple of hours and the Levy Out brigade will stumble across this thread, not bother reading the article and start slinging baseless accusations at the board and act like we're all mental.

It's a good summing up of our position right now, clearly a reasonably savvy fan of football in general.

I agree that it's a fantastic article and gives an excellent perspective as to where we are as a club right now, but (without wishing to come across as a frothing-at-the-gash Levy-out merchant) if all that is true and we're just financially not able to compete with the top 4, then why does Levy continually sack his managers for failing to achieve the impossible?

I think the disparity between our abilities and our ambitions is the thing that rankles most people. In the absence of Levy coming out and saying so explicitly (which he doesn't do because he very rarely goes on record personally), we've seen lots and lots of clear evidence that Levy demands CL football and anything less than that will result in a manager getting the chop. But if we're accepting that we haven't got the financial muscle to realistically compete with the top 4 then why can't we as a club adjust our expectations and concentrate on decent top-half league finishes and all-out attempts to win one of the 3 cups (assuming Europa) that are available to us? Because if top 4 is beyond us without an insanely rich, spendthrift owner, then I'd prefer us to reconcile ourselves to that reality and concentrate on winning a cup.

As the OP points out though, that's not the way we're playing it: we're selling the fantasy that we could break into the top 4 (and sacking managers based on those fantastic expectations) rather than concentrating on more realistic targets which we could actually achieve. I think you'll find that that's the main cause of people's angst with Levy.

 

[SteveH]

This really needs to stay as high as possible so the Out-brigade might actually find it.

I still can't shake the feeling that we've wasted a fantastic opportunity over the last four years and the way we've played this season and the personell we have is making me feel increasingly disconnected to the club. Yet I would much rather have our "crisis" experience now than Villa's after they sacked O'Neill, for example.

We're not in crisis, it just feels like it.

There are many fans in crisis, because they can't cope with the FACT that we can't compete financially with the four teams above us, and the amusing one having a car crash below us (no not West Ham).

 

[scat1620]

There are many fans in crisis, because they can't cope with the FACT that we can't compete financially with the four teams above us, and the amusing one having a car crash below us (no not West Ham).

I agree with what you're saying, but the evidence is there to suggest that our chairman can't cope with that fact either. We're being sold a dream that we can't achieve (under the current financial regime) by a chairman who will sack any manager who doesn't turn the dream into reality.