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The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

kursaal

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,282
7,974
Its magnificent if it suits your agenda but when factualy incorrect and full of exageration then it is not magnificent in my view. I have to admit I didnt even make it half way through the article so if the end was great I apologise.

We are in a mess but we are also in a better position on and off the pitch than pre Levy. Look at every club over the past 20 years and there will hardly be any that hasn't gone through challenges and times like this. Even the bankrolled clubs.

We are having our worst season ever according to people on here yet we are still in 6th and a shout of getting in to Europe. I would have taken that 20+ years ago when a top half finish was basically the goal.
We will probably be 8th come Sunday. You'd have taken that 20 years ago no doubt. I've followed Spurs over 45 years and I don't accept that. We'd have had a much greater chance of silverware if Levy had shelled out on what top managers wanted, not far cheaper options that suits Levy's tastes.
 

THE SPURSBOY

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,062
4,234
Considering it got flooded after the Newcastle humiliation its probably a good bet it comes back when the dust has settled after the Liverpool game OR if there is some clear update on a new manger. Im assuming the ITK's haven't heard anything new and the press seem to be recycling the same story about Nagelsmann being interested but wanting spending guarantees. We already know Slot and JN are favourites so one assumes there just isn't anything new.

Just have to hope that something positive happens in the next week or two but im not going to be holding my breath.
oh I didn't realise it had come back for the Newcastle game I thought it was still closed from before then
 

chas vs dave

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
5,459
22,160
We will probably be 8th come Sunday. You'd have taken that 20 years ago no doubt. I've followed Spurs over 45 years and I don't accept that. We'd have had a much greater chance of silverware if Levy had shelled out on what top managers wanted, not far cheaper options that suits Levy's tastes.

If my auntie had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

We have shelled out over 100m every season for the last 6 seasons.

You actually think spending more would have improved us?

Spending isn't the issue.
 

GMI

G.
Dec 13, 2006
3,119
12,216
We will probably be 8th come Sunday. You'd have taken that 20 years ago no doubt. I've followed Spurs over 45 years and I don't accept that. We'd have had a much greater chance of silverware if Levy had shelled out on what top managers wanted, not far cheaper options that suits Levy's tastes.
This happens. It has happened to Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd in recent years. Our overall position over the past 10 years has seen us generally in and around the top four. I would agree it feels like we are stagnating currently but teams do have bad seasons.
 

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,990
46,599
If my auntie had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

We have shelled out over 100m every season for the last 6 seasons.

You actually think spending more would have improved us?

Spending isn't the issue.
Not spending more, just spending it in the right places.
Rodon, Gil, Danjuma (although only a loan, still cost 2.5m), Spence, Foyth, Sessegnon (unfortunate due to injuries), the list goes on of money we've spent badly.
We could maybe even be adding Porro to that list.
 

Bing

Well-Known Member
Aug 28, 2008
1,099
1,522
Barber has been in Brighton since 2012, I don't remember any praise for Brighton as a well-run club until let's say 2020 when Potter started playing attractive football. And let's be honest, their status when basically no one will care if they end the season 17th helps them massively.

I wouldn't say Arsenal fans saw Edu having a vision, a direction or a plan until last season when Arteta started doing well. And one of crucial reason why it happened was Arteta vetoing Edu's transfer decisions, for example signing Ramsdale instead of Neto.

2001 - ENIC take over with a goal of getting us into Champions League
2006- We come close missing out on the last day of the season. ENIC decide a change is needed to push over the line.
2008 - Win League cup
2010 - we finally achieve CL qualification for the first time. Quite the achievement given our league finished prior to ENIC takeover and how competitive the league is.
2011 - A new era at the club begins with a vision to cement us as consistent CL side and build a new stadium
2019 - Make CL final, stadium built, consistent CL qualification, global exposure massively increased. Focus now shifts to winning things. Appoint one of the most widely respected managers in world football with a proven track record to help get us over the line (Mourinho).
2021 - Mourinho does not work out. Another elite manager with a proven winning record is appointed (Conte). Significant funds are spent to back him. Again we fail to win anything.

I think broad strokes that's the last 20 years. We clearly have a strategy and a vision. It has just happened a lot slower than many fans would like and ultimately we have failed to win things despite best efforts in the last few years.

People paint the club as a sh*t show with no ambition, no plan. A lot of people like to think the sky is falling down. It's really not. The stick to beat Levy with is our lack of trophies despite best efforts and a sensible approach. That's a fair, balanced criticism. People should stick to that but they should also understand how difficult it is to win things and how competitive the league is.
 

DiVaio

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2020
4,188
17,459
I think you'll find Arsenal fans are pretty happy right now (if sweating a bit). Having a plan is not a 'fan' thing - it's just good sense. Not having one is why we're in a mess. Let's hope we've figured that out, and this is a low-point that will spark improvement - but getting it right from now doesn't excuse the failures of the past.
They are pretty happy. Because as I said, Arteta is doing good job. And that's pretty much it.
This isn't a response to you because I know you didn't write this, but I feel as if I've read a half dozen of these articles over the past two months and the big issue with them is that they often start well then descend into hyperbole, stating opinions as fact, or just straight up lying so we end up looking silly. In this piece alone for example, the author states:

  • "Eric Dier, Ben Davies, and Davinson Sanchez would struggle in the Championship. That’s not hyperbole or satire, it’s fact." I half wanted to write my own article against this statement alone but it's so hyperbolic - despite the author's insistence - that it's a waste of time even debating it.

  • Both tried; Mourinho for Dias and Skriniar, Conte for Bastoni and Gvardiol. Both were met with the same answer: No." To the best of my knowledge, most of this is false. Mourinho turned down Dias of his own accord and Gvardiol didn't even go to Chelsea when they offered Leipzig £80M. I'll give you Skriniar and Bastoni and I agree with the overall sentiment of the point 100%, but it's more hyperbole that does the author no favours.

  • "But as Walker grew restless, and demanded a higher salary more commensurate with his standing in the game, Levy refused." Walker left because he had a bust up with Pochettino and to win things at a bigger club and play under a better manager, not because we didn't offer him the right amount of money. Sadly, his decision has been entirely vindicated.
I am absolutely as Levy out as they come and have been for years and years and years. As far as I'm concerned he should have walked the second the idea of ripping the heart and soul out of the club to move us to Stratford even crossed his mind as a joke, let alone something we pissed away 18 months worth of time seriously pursuing.

I'm probably overreacting given it's just a random article but the point is we as a collective do this constantly and we get pulled up on Twitter, social media in general, talkSPORT, etc and it just makes us look like idiots. It's incredibly frustrating because Levy has made enough mistakes that it should be like shooting fish in a barrel, so if we're going to criticise him - and we absolutely should - then at the very least let's criticise him correctly.
World of Hotspur is always writing some random articles. It's really obvious that Mourinho and Conte liked Dier and Davies.
  • " Juande Ramos wanted Samuel Eto and David Villa, but was left with Darren Bent and Roman Pavlyuchenko." First time I've seen it but must say this is the funniest and most unrealistic evidence of Levy not backing managers I've ever seen. We ended this season at 11th place. They both were playing in (much) bigger and better clubs. Eto'o ended season as Barcelona best goal scorer(3rd time in 4th season) and in CL Semi Final. Looking by non-penalty goals per 90 he was the best player in whole top5 leagues. David Villa ended season as Euro winner and top goal scorer in those competitions. I would say there were less 1% chance of any of them coming to Spurs
  • "In defence, Jan Vertonghen and Toby Alderweireld were two of the league’s top defenders. Years after their departure, neither has been replaced." Did he forget about Romero? And well, by Pau in 2021 and Bastoni/Gvardiol in 2022 Vertonghen wasn't replaced by other things, not because of Levy
  • "Christian Eriksen, the team’s heartbeat, and only creative midfielder, not only has never been replaced — the club have failed to even bother to bring in a viable central attacking midfielder in his absence." Yeah, it's not like we had 3 managers who weren't using players like him in their tactics
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,132
6,771
If my auntie had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

We have shelled out over 100m every season for the last 6 seasons.

You actually think spending more would have improved us?

Spending isn't the issue.
In the words of Levy’s friend Simon Jordan if Levy’s defence is he is spending but then admitting he spent it badly not really the greatest defence of the man.

You can either argue the Man City’s and Chelsea’s show how you spend to win or the Brentford’s and the Brighton’s show how you spend much more competently and support the manager.

Whether not spending enough all those years little teams out spent us when we had a chance to win things or now spending but on the wrong players, often still players the manager doesn’t want, then you have to conclude Levy is a failure.
 

jimbo

Cabbages
Dec 22, 2003
8,077
7,556
They are pretty happy. Because as I said, Arteta is doing good job. And that's pretty much it.
Arteta is doing a good job because he's been properly supported by the structure they put in place in line with their strategy. That's pretty much it.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,165
15,644
2001 - ENIC take over with a goal of getting us into Champions League
2006- We come close missing out on the last day of the season. ENIC decide a change is needed to push over the line.
2008 - Win League cup
2010 - we finally achieve CL qualification for the first time. Quite the achievement given our league finished prior to ENIC takeover and how competitive the league is.
2011 - A new era at the club begins with a vision to cement us as consistent CL side and build a new stadium
2019 - Make CL final, stadium built, global exposure massively increased. Focus now shifts to winning things. Appoint one of the most widely respected managers in world football with a proven track record to help get us over the line (Mourinho).
2021 - Mourinho does not work out. Another elite manager with a proven winning record is appointed (Conte). Significant funds are spent to back him. Again we fail to win anything.

I think broad strokes that's the last 20 years. We clearly have a strategy and a vision. It has just happened a lot slower than many fans would like and ultimately we have failed to win things despite best efforts in the last few years.

People paint the club as a sh*t show with no ambition, no plan. A lot of people like to think the sky is falling down. It's really not. The stick to beat Levy with is our lack of trophies despite best efforts and a sensible approach. That's a fair, balanced criticism. People should stick to that but they should also understand how difficult it is to win things and how competitive the league is.
Come on, it's hardly just about trophies. If we were still a Champions League side playing good football it'd be easy to be patient. Instead we're fighting just to make Europe, the football's been terrible for years, the prices are sky-high, we don't have a director of football after trying to run with a crook, and patience is just about out. 17 years ago now we finished 5th, playing better football, with a young squad, and tickets half the price. The anger isn't about a lack of progress, it's about the total regression.
 

Monkey boy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
6,464
17,226
This isn't a response to you because I know you didn't write this, but I feel as if I've read a half dozen of these articles over the past two months and the big issue with them is that they often start well then descend into hyperbole, stating opinions as fact, or just straight up lying so we end up looking silly. In this piece alone for example, the author states:

  • "Eric Dier, Ben Davies, and Davinson Sanchez would struggle in the Championship. That’s not hyperbole or satire, it’s fact." I half wanted to write my own article against this statement alone but it's so hyperbolic - despite the author's insistence - that it's a waste of time even debating it.

  • Both tried; Mourinho for Dias and Skriniar, Conte for Bastoni and Gvardiol. Both were met with the same answer: No." To the best of my knowledge, most of this is false. Mourinho turned down Dias of his own accord and Gvardiol didn't even go to Chelsea when they offered Leipzig £80M. I'll give you Skriniar and Bastoni and I agree with the overall sentiment of the point 100%, but it's more hyperbole that does the author no favours.

  • "But as Walker grew restless, and demanded a higher salary more commensurate with his standing in the game, Levy refused." Walker left because he had a bust up with Pochettino and to win things at a bigger club and play under a better manager, not because we didn't offer him the right amount of money. Sadly, his decision has been entirely vindicated.
I am absolutely as Levy out as they come and have been for years and years and years. As far as I'm concerned he should have walked the second the idea of ripping the heart and soul out of the club to move us to Stratford even crossed his mind as a joke, let alone something we pissed away 18 months worth of time seriously pursuing.

I'm probably overreacting given it's just a random article but the point is we as a collective do this constantly and we get pulled up on Twitter, social media in general, talkSPORT, etc and it just makes us look like idiots. It's incredibly frustrating because Levy has made enough mistakes that it should be like shooting fish in a barrel, so if we're going to criticise him - and we absolutely should - then at the very least let's criticise him correctly.

fantastic post mate.
 

YB123

YB123
Aug 27, 2006
6,077
21,850
I'd imagine Mason will be in for the United game.

But whats the betting for the next few days we get "spurs stepping up pursuit for Nagelsmann" "levy doing all to get Nagelsmann" "Levy leading the charge for ambitious Nagelsmann appointment". Just to try and reduce the toxicity Thursday.


So so so predictable wasnt it.
 

chas vs dave

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
5,459
22,160
In the words of Levy’s friend Simon Jordan if Levy’s defence is he is spending but then admitting he spent it badly not really the greatest defence of the man.

You can either argue the Man City’s and Chelsea’s show how you spend to win or the Brentford’s and the Brighton’s show how you spend much more competently and support the manager.

Whether not spending enough all those years little teams out spent us when we had a chance to win things or now spending but on the wrong players, often still players the manager doesn’t want, then you have to conclude Levy is a failure.
I never said it was in defence.

There are plenty of reasons to criticise levy, spending money isn't one of them.

It's a bit subjective, we technically had the 6th best revenue, 6th best spending and finished 4th last season.

Is that a failure?

Simon Jordan also said that spurs fans could do with facing relegation, just to get a sense of perspective.
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,491
38,612
If my auntie had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

We have shelled out over 100m every season for the last 6 seasons.

You actually think spending more would have improved us?

Spending isn't the issue.
It's definitely recruitment itself that is the issue and even the most ardent supporter of Daniel Levy wouldn't deny that - especially as he's admitted it himself.
 

chas vs dave

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
5,459
22,160
It's definitely recruitment itself that is the issue and even the most ardent supporter of Daniel Levy wouldn't deny that - especially as he's admitted it himself.
I'm agreeing. Throwing more money into it, when it isn't working would be madness.

Hopefully, the player write downs means we can get rid of the deadwood for less this summer.
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,132
6,771
The expectations of Levy fans, this year the constant comparison to Liverpool (who will probably finish above us) and Chelsea who are having terrible seasons, next year they’ll find whichever of the big teams is failing to compare, all the time conveniently forgetting the successes of each. Like comparing apples and Oranges, pointless and just excusing the continued ENIC failures. We need to stop comparing to teams failing to excuse ENIC failing, it’s a shit defence of them.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,033
48,769
We were shit in the 90s, no mistake about that, but in terms of your comparison we weren't similar stature to West Ham or Southampton, that's for damn sure. If we look at the 'Money League' in the years immediately before ENIC, we were still 5-6th richest club in the country, like we are now, and richer than Everton or Villa. We can all agree that Levy has, present situation excepted, moved the club far beyond the hilarious level of mismanagement of the 90s - which is still referred to regularly 20 years on - but let's not pretend he's taken some minnow club into the big time.

Who were the 4 or 5 richer clubs than us back then?

Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal ??
 

Cel

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2013
717
1,860
This isn't a response to you because I know you didn't write this, but I feel as if I've read a half dozen of these articles over the past two months and the big issue with them is that they often start well then descend into hyperbole, stating opinions as fact, or just straight up lying so we end up looking silly. In this piece alone for example, the author states:

  • "Eric Dier, Ben Davies, and Davinson Sanchez would struggle in the Championship. That’s not hyperbole or satire, it’s fact." I half wanted to write my own article against this statement alone but it's so hyperbolic - despite the author's insistence - that it's a waste of time even debating it.

  • Both tried; Mourinho for Dias and Skriniar, Conte for Bastoni and Gvardiol. Both were met with the same answer: No." To the best of my knowledge, most of this is false. Mourinho turned down Dias of his own accord and Gvardiol didn't even go to Chelsea when they offered Leipzig £80M. I'll give you Skriniar and Bastoni and I agree with the overall sentiment of the point 100%, but it's more hyperbole that does the author no favours.

  • "But as Walker grew restless, and demanded a higher salary more commensurate with his standing in the game, Levy refused." Walker left because he had a bust up with Pochettino and to win things at a bigger club and play under a better manager, not because we didn't offer him the right amount of money. Sadly, his decision has been entirely vindicated.
I am absolutely as Levy out as they come and have been for years and years and years. As far as I'm concerned he should have walked the second the idea of ripping the heart and soul out of the club to move us to Stratford even crossed his mind as a joke, let alone something we pissed away 18 months worth of time seriously pursuing.

I'm probably overreacting given it's just a random article but the point is we as a collective do this constantly and we get pulled up on Twitter, social media in general, talkSPORT, etc and it just makes us look like idiots. It's incredibly frustrating because Levy has made enough mistakes that it should be like shooting fish in a barrel, so if we're going to criticise him - and we absolutely should - then at the very least let's criticise him correctly.
Yes, I agree with this. IMO It's also a key reason why other other fans dislike us, when you'd think we should be seen as the plucky underdog taking on the Oil money clubs - usually people love an underdog. It's the unwarranted sense of importance this kind of hyperbole gives off.

Let's face it - Dias extremely likely went to City as they are a better place to win than us. Why wouldn't he? The idea it was a straight fight and we didn't pay up is nuts. We are in the second tier of clubs for players agents to get their clients moves to. The idea that "if we'd pulled our finger out and paid up', he'd be here instead is almost unbelievable, in the classic sense of the word.

I have no doubt some of these players might give positive noises to start, but I'd be sacking my agent tomorrow if he didn't then sound out City, Liverpool, Madrid, Barca etc before any commitment is made to come to us. In fact, I always wince a bit whenever we spend a large sum, as part of me wonders why has no-one else was in for him.

The stick to beat Daniel is why is the drop from a Dias/Gvardiol/Bastoni down to a Rodon, or a loan? Not 'we should've got 2 of the worlds best defenders'. Where's the 'plan B'?

As while we continually fuck around window shopping for 80m players in places we almost certainly won't actually end up buying in, other teams are still buying class players, and creating solid defences - you can do that without it being one of maybe the 5 best players in their position on the planet.
 

chas vs dave

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2008
5,459
22,160
The expectations of Levy fans, this year the constant comparison to Liverpool (who will probably finish above us) and Chelsea who are having terrible seasons, next year they’ll find whichever of the big teams is failing to compare, all the time conveniently forgetting the successes of each. Like comparing apples and Oranges, pointless and just excusing the continued ENIC failures. We need to stop comparing to teams failing to excuse ENIC failing, it’s a shit defence of them.

Do you ever stop looking at things in such a binary way?

Where should spurs expect to finish?

This season has been a failure, however not every season has been, and the context of a season can change, due to a multitude of reasons, that enic, or any other owner can't control.

That's not defending them, it's the reality of the world.
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,165
15,644
Do you ever stop looking at things in such a binary way?

Where should spurs expect to finish?

This season has been a failure, however not every season has been, and the context of a season can change, due to a multitude of reasons, that enic, or any other owner can't control.

That's not defending them, it's the reality of the world.
On revenue we're 5th in England and 9th in the world. So reasonable expectations might look like this:

  • Consistently playing good football.
  • Qualifying for the Champions League more often than not, especially from next year when 5th in England will normally get a place.
  • Occasionally having a poor season where with several games to go we're out of the UCL race, but also occasionally having a good season where we challenge for the title.
  • Having sufficient squad depth to perform reasonably in domestic cups even when we rotate.
  • Consistently very strong European performances given our greater financial strength than all bar 5 clubs on the continent - UCL quarter-finals, or at least getting to the semi-final if we're in the Europa. The Conference League should be winnable even with some rotation throughout.
  • Comparable ticket prices to e.g. Arsenal who are similar in expectations, location, and having a modern ground. They charge an average of £1,095 when they are in the Europa, including 7 cup matches. Our prices are significantly higher despite no cup games being included.
Highly defensive football, terrible cup performances (not failing to win them, but losing to the likes of Colchester, Mura, Pacos de Ferreira etc), the most expensive tickets in the world, and mediocre league performances four years in a row now is not reasonable. It's not outside our control. It's the result of some very, very, very bad decision-making. Which is a real shame because I do think the board generally did fairly well up until that infamous no-transfers-window.
 
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