Will FFP finally put spurs where they belong?

[Japhet]

The problem for Utd is their player turnover has been pretty big with crazy transfer fees and wages

And the Glazers syphoning off money and mortgaging the assets for their own benefit

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Crooked politicians of the current government lobbying on behalf of the Saudis is one thing , interfering with a judicial panel made up of eminent King's Counsel lawyers and former Deputy High Court judges is another thing.
By the time a verdict is given current load of spivs and conmen/women might have been thrown out in the next election.
And considering UK governments have often lost cases in UK law courts not sure the judiciary are that scared of the Government.

I hope you are right. This is why nation states should never be owning our clubs. It’s our own fault, we welcome anyone with money.
The Premier League are dealing with a government. It’s a different ball game.
PIF claimed diplomatic immunity in a court case in USA in a case brought by the PGA. Refused various docs which had been requested. Chairman of PIF is the chairman of Newcastle.
The Saudis stated in the court case that he is a sitting minister in the Saudi government.
PIF were allowed to buy Newcastle as they said they were not connected to the Saudi government.
Thst is now disproved, as if we didn’t know. The silence is deafening from the Prem Lge.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

And the Glazers syphoning off money and mortgaging the assets for their own benefit

Doing a marvellous job. It’s all Fergusons fault for being a greedy sod with Rock of Gibraltar.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

I hope you are right. This is why nation states should never be owning our clubs. It’s our own fault, we welcome anyone with money.
The Premier League are dealing with a government. It’s a different ball game.
PIF claimed diplomatic immunity in a court case in USA in a case brought by the PGA. Refused various docs which had been requested. Chairman of PIF is the chairman of Newcastle.
The Saudis stated in the court case that he is a sitting minister in the Saudi government.
PIF were allowed to buy Newcastle as they said they were not connected to the Saudi government.
Thst is now disproved, as if we didn’t know. The silence is deafening from the Prem Lge.

Abu Dhabi government agencies were involved in the charges made by UEFA and UEFA weren't afraid to make those charges so obviously weren't worried about any intervention by governments.
Both UEFA and CAS are based in Switzerland so if Man C had been banned would the Abu Dhabi government start threatening the Swiss , the UAE is Switzerlands biggest trading partner in the middle east.

 

[Guernman]

Abu Dhabi government agencies were involved in the charges made by UEFA and UEFA weren't afraid to make those charges so obviously weren't worried about any intervention by governments.
Both UEFA and CAS are based in Switzerland so if Man C had been banned would Abu Dhabi government start threatening the Swiss , the UAE is Switzerlands biggest trading partner in the middle east.

I really hope you are right SirHarry and while I have raised doubts about the investigation, it is not because I don't feel as outraged as you do, I just don't want to raise my expectations. But I appreciate your posts because they do give me a glimmer of hope that City might finally get their comeuppance.

But more important than seeing City punished retrospectively, which would cause a lot of chaos with other clubs' legal challenges, etc what I would really love to see is FFP properly taking hold, and all the loopholes for obvious breaches and connected party sponsorship etc being completely closed.

If the likes of City, Chelsea and Newcastle really have to operate within their own revenue parameters moving forward, it will finally level the playing field and allow clubs like Spurs to finally reap what they have sown with years of genuine growth, strategy and working within the agreed rules.

Of course City have changed their trajectory permanently now, but it cannot be overlooked that Mansour's strategy went beyond the pure finances. They wooed and backed one of the greatest managers of all time, they have recruited very sensibly when we compare their approach to United's, or Boehly at Chelsea. They have never paid ridiculous sums for individual players, but focused on building incredible squad depth. Their high wages and onfield success has allowed them to buy players at reasonable transfer fees.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising them because I like or admire what they have done. I despise how they were allowed to cheat the rules and dominate on the back of it. I mention these points only to stress that it isn't only about money though, and therefore, thankfully, not that easy to replicate.

Chelsea are intent on showing that right now, while United have spent absolutely insane amounts of money since Fergie left and have gone backwards. PSG haven't been able to buy a Champions League despite throwing more than enough money at the problem. City had a clear aligned strategy backed by endless wealth, but they needed all the pieces in place to achieve what they have.

What I find so exciting right now is that we finally seem to have a similarly aligned strategy, and the revenue streams from the stadium to really put it in place and back Ange properly, provided that FFP really does start baring its teeth.

If City are really punished I will be as happy as the next football supporter. But even if they get away with it, as long as it can't be repeated, as long as Saudi can't do the same with Newcastle, or the next sovereign state or wealth fund, then I'll be pretty content with that too.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

I really hope you are right SirHarry and while I have raised doubts about the investigation, it is not because I don't feel as outraged as you do, I just don't want to raise my expectations. But I appreciate your posts because they do give me a glimmer of hope that City might finally get their comeuppance.

But more important than seeing City punished retrospectively, which would cause a lot of chaos with other clubs' legal challenges, etc what I would really love to see is FFP properly taking hold, and all the loopholes for obvious breaches and connected party sponsorship etc being completely closed.

If the likes of City, Chelsea and Newcastle really have to operate within their own revenue parameters moving forward, it will finally level the playing field and allow clubs like Spurs to finally reap what they have sown with years of genuine growth, strategy and working within the agreed rules.

Of course City have changed their trajectory permanently now, but it cannot be overlooked that Mansour's strategy went beyond the pure finances. They wooed and backed one of the greatest managers of all time, they have recruited very sensibly when we compare their approach to United's, or Boehly at Chelsea. They have never paid ridiculous sums for individual players, but focused on building incredible squad depth. Their high wages and onfield success has allowed them to buy players at reasonable transfer fees.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising them because I like or admire what they have done. I despise how they were allowed to cheat the rules and dominate on the back of it. I mention these points only to stress that it isn't only about money though, and therefore, thankfully, not that easy to replicate.

Chelsea are intent on showing that right now, while United have spent absolutely insane amounts of money since Fergie left and have gone backwards. PSG haven't been able to buy a Champions League despite throwing more than enough money at the problem. City had a clear aligned strategy backed by endless wealth, but they needed all the pieces in place to achieve what they have.

What I find so exciting right now is that we finally seem to have a similarly aligned strategy, and the revenue streams from the stadium to really put it in place and back Ange properly, provided that FFP really does start baring its teeth.

If City are really punished I will be as happy as the next football supporter. But even if they get away with it, as long as it can't be repeated, as long as Saudi can't do the same with Newcastle, or the next sovereign state or wealth fund, then I'll be pretty content with that too.

I don't know if City are going to be found guilty on the most serious charges depends on what new evidence the PL have but I am sort of confident that the Government would be taking a huge risk if they tried to interfere in the investigation of Murray Rosen KC and his team of lawyers.
CAS in their summing up were very critical of Man City's non cooperation in the UEFA case ,found them guilty and fined them £8.5 million pounds. Even if City escape the most serious charges , 35 charges of obstruction may produce a points deduction , we will have to wait and see.
With Newcastle I think so many checks are now being made on sponsorship and income even with their mega rich owners they will not be able to follow what City were doing when they were taken over. They will have to follow the Levy example of building up the legal streams of revenue over many years.

 

[rossdapep]

I don't know if City are going to be found guilty on the most serious charges depends on what new evidence the PL have but I am sort of confident that the Government would be taking a huge risk if they tried to interfere in the investigation of Murray Rosen KC and his team of lawyers.
CAS in their summing up were very critical of Man City's non cooperation in the UEFA case ,found them guilty and fined them £8.5 million pounds. Even if City escape the most serious charges , 35 charges of obstruction may produce a points deduction , we will have to wait and see.
With Newcastle I think so many checks are now being made on sponsorship and income even with their mega rich owners they will not be able to follow what City were doing when they were taken over. They will have to follow the Levy example of building up the legal streams of revenue over many years.

Have to wonder if the Saudi's have the apetite for that.

One of the big appeals for Abu Dhabi was that they could essentially turn City into a powerhouse overnight, that in turn got fans and such on side so they are able to rename the stadium and then invest into the area and turn City essentially into a franchise.

All to really really sportswash their image. Abu Dhabi is now one of the most visited places and the City group are seen as a model operation.

Abu Dhabi doesn't get as much negative press as it did 10-15 years ago.

Saudi have been working on their tourism and it is only really starting to get going but they need to be seen positively in the public eye and get the same level of PR, the failure of the Saudi League and a long struggle to get Newcastle to the top may halter that.

Yet Saudi is definitely still getting negative press so do they get tired after sometime if Newcastle are floatig between 5thn and midtable? And does something else become more appealing? A club in France or Spain?

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Have to wonder if the Saudi's have the apetite for that.

One of the big appeals for Abu Dhabi was that they could essentially turn City into a powerhouse overnight, that in turn got fans and such on side so they are able to rename the stadium and then invest into the area and turn City essentially into a franchise.

All to really really sportswash their image. Abu Dhabi is now one of the most visited places and the City group are seen as a model operation.

Abu Dhabi doesn't get as much negative press as it did 10-15 years ago.

Saudi have been working on their tourism and it is only really starting to get going but they need to be seen positively in the public eye and get the same level of PR, the failure of the Saudi League and a long struggle to get Newcastle to the top may halter that.

Yet Saudi is definitely still getting negative press so do they get tired after sometime if Newcastle are floatig between 5thn and midtable? And does something else become more appealing? A club in France or Spain?

Yes that's right do they have the appetite for the long term, unless the PL relax FFP rules don't see how they can spend fortunes as City did.
I said in another post if you go back to 2005/6/7 Newcastle were above us with their revenue now they are way behind .
Levy and other directors Kline etc have negotiated deals all over the place to boost sponsorship for Spurs plus of course we pay high ticket prices that would make other fans complain like mad apart from Arsenal who pay very similar prices to us.

 

[SuperLuka]

There'll be hell to pay if City are perceived to have been dealt with leniently. I think they could well be given a long transfer ban (or cap) on top of points deductions over a few seasons. They might even be given a lower FFP threshold for a few seasons. Whatever it is, I hope they can't get it out of the way in a single season being as they've cheated for nigh on a decade.

I doubt most people will care or be able to do anything about it if they do.

 

[SuperLuka]

The key to footballing success is a triangle of Money/Manager/Players so levelling the playing field financially doesn't guarantee success.

Although City and Chelsea fundamentally cheated, their revenues weren't larger than United's or much larger than Liverpool's (although City have achieved that now).
They still needed the right managers and to buy the right players.

I've always defended Levy because his sole interest was to get to the stage where we had the money to compete in the first place.
Now we pretty much have the money it's the manager and player purchases that will take us over the line.
And since we've had that money over the last couple of seasons we haven't got a lot wrong.

They were not officially larger but aren't some of the accusations against both of them (Chelsea and city) that brown paper exchanged hands?

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Re the Man City FFP case unlike with politicians being asked questions in Parliament about Saudi owners or Richard Masters just denying that he was persuaded to accept the owners , the findings of the City case will be published in full with the lawyers giving the exact reasons for the verdicts as happened with Everton. This all should have happened years ago with City but now that FFP seems to be in full force maybe we can now use our honest money (I think ) to really challenge in league and cups.

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2023/11/17/49989e4e-01a2-44f9-a012-c3a31ae5536b/2023-11-17-Premier-League-v-Everton-FC-Decision-for-Publication.pdf

 

[arnoldlayne]

And the Glazers syphoning off money and mortgaging the assets for their own benefit

Interesting that ManU have just successfully head hunted ManC's Chief Football Operations Officer

Does he know something? (#2+2 = 5)

Omar Berrada | City Football Leadership Institute

Be a leader in any arena.

cityfootball-leadership.com

Omar Berrada​

Chief Football Operations Officer, City Football Group
Omar is Chief Football Operations Officer at City Football Group overseeing talent management, performance services, and football intelligence for the Group. Prior to this Omar was Chief Operating Officer of Manchester City Football Club, having been promoted in September 2016 from Commercial Director for City Football Marketing. Omar also worked at FC Barcelona for almost eight years, as a Senior Media Business Development Manager and as the Head of Sponsorship, during a very successful era for the Catalan club. Omar’s expertise in football operations, sponsorship and media rights reflects over 18 years of senior-level experience in the sports industry and five years in the telecommunications sector.

 

[arunspurs]

At the very least, it looks like next 1 - 2 windows, we will have a upper hand in transfer market.
But then upper hand in PSR only matters if we are willing to push the boat.

IMO, in summer, we really have to push the envelope for the no9 Kane replacement. Richy is fine but we need better. With PSR issues for most clubs, we have to take advantage of the situation and push for that 1 big transfer

 

[kernowspurscoach1977]

I agree we could have the leeway to get ahead in player recruitment and squad building - the problem is who.
Not many strikers even at £100mil who will guarantee the goals we need.
The list is very short and even those on it are a huge gamble - untried in epl and that’s without even knowing if selling club will sell, player wants to come to us.

At the very least, it looks like next 1 - 2 windows, we will have a upper hand in transfer market.

But then upper hand in PSR only matters if we are willing to push the boat.

IMO, in summer, we really have to push the envelope for the no9 Kane replacement. Richy is fine but we need better. With PSR issues for most clubs, we have to take advantage of the situation and push for that 1 big transfer

 

[vegassd]

I agree we could have the leeway to get ahead in player recruitment and squad building - the problem is who.
Not many strikers even at £100mil who will guarantee the goals we need.
The list is very short and even those on it are a huge gamble - untried in epl and that’s without even knowing if selling club will sell, player wants to come to us.

The striker position is going to be interesting to watch. I think the last few seasons we have been scoring 60-70 league goals per season with Kane in the team, and this season we are on track for more like 80 goals without him... not to mention all the injuries. I'm not having a dig at Kane of course, but I wonder what Ange will be thinking about that position in the summer.

Like you say, it would be a hell of a lot of money with no guarantee. If Ange feels there is enough in the squad already that would mean a lot more flexibility in other positions (CB, CM, LB, LW etc.) and more freedom to do the loan back kind of deals for the future. If we do need to buy a striker it would likely be the fat end of our budget used up.

 

[Styopa]

Having Kane for ten years, and having a series of managers who set up the team to be highly reliant on Kane’s goals, has skewed some of the thinking round here. It was the same in the summer. A kind of obsession in some quarters with having to replace Kane with like for like.

Ultimately, as long as we’re scoring and that is sustainable, it doesn’t matter if we don’t have a striker who is contributing 25+ goals a season. In fact it’s better not to be so reliant on one single player.

Anyway, the chances of us finding a Kane replacement, even if we go out and spend a hundred million, are remote. It’s the same as when we sold Modric or Bale. You can’t replace players like that, you need to evolve the team and not get too hung up on trying to find equivalents.

Can we do better than Richy? Probably, although he might score something close to 20 goals this season. And we don’t exactly have a good record when it comes to spending record fees, which is probably what it will take to find a striker who is a near guarantee to score 20+ a season.

 

[arunspurs]

I agree we could have the leeway to get ahead in player recruitment and squad building - the problem is who.
Not many strikers even at £100mil who will guarantee the goals we need.
The list is very short and even those on it are a huge gamble - untried in epl and that’s without even knowing if selling club will sell, player wants to come to us.

Agree, but a gamble only we can take and not others. Precisely because we can take, number of suitors will be less. What could have been a field of 120 or 150m deals could be now 100m deals.

IMO, we should try for Osimhen, Luis Openda , Lautaro. And even Kane (if incase he wants to come back). There's no guarentee either way

 

[kernowspurscoach1977]

Agree, but a gamble only we can take and not others. Precisely because we can take, number of suitors will be less. What could have been a field of 120 or 150m deals could be now 100m deals.

IMO, we should try for Osimhen, Luis Openda , Lautaro. And even Kane (if incase he wants to come back). There's no guarentee either way

Out of them the only guarantee for me would be Kane. Yeah we are in a situation where we have more leeway with ffp but any big big money signing - as manure have found out - if unsuccessful would cut that leeway dramatically as you are left with a lemon on high wages with reduced sell on!
Like our friend ndombele but on a higher scale

 

[Styopa]

Out of them the only guarantee for me would be Kane. Yeah we are in a situation where we have more leeway with ffp but any big big money signing - as manure have found out - if unsuccessful would cut that leeway dramatically as you are left with a lemon on high wages with reduced sell on!
Like our friend ndombele but on a higher scale

Agree. And look around the team now. Our best players from Vicario to Udogie, to Sarr to Bentancur to Maddison have been bought for relatively modest fees.

Ironically, it’s generally our most expensive buys (obviously Ndombele but also Richy and Johnson) which most people complain about.

 

[Hotspur88]

The Jordan potential partnership is 100% true, I passed this on to Rob & A&C in October 2022.....

"Nike are coming sometime this week or next to discuss the Air Jordan deal. It is between us and Chelsea. Would be a similar deal to the PSG one where the symbol replaces the Nike logo and the mock ups the club have done are apparently immense. My mate is worried however as Boehly recently employed a load of ex Nike employees so we have tough competition"