What's happened to our supposed transfer policy?

[DFF]

DFF , this post does not do you credit .

I'm not here to look good. How about a proper response?

Here's a Jol quote for you:
"...with the squad of players we have assembled, it is realistic that we should look to challenge for a top four position..."

Again, i would be disappointed if he genuinely didn't believe that and was feeding us a line...

I think most at the club (including MJ) felt we'd rounded off the edges of our squad enough to at least mount some sort of challenge on the top 4. Whatever was the case, i'm glad genuine weaknesses are finally being dealt with.

 

[guy]

Jol copped the raw end of the deal in the summer no doubt about it. He had no say in KPB (evidence: he never gave him a look in), had little say in Kaboul (evidence: commolli unveiling him and labellling best CB in fr.. blah blah) and possibly had some sort of say in bale and bent. But this is unknown.

If jol got the experience he wanted, ie distin and petrov our season couldve been very different. Add to that the obvious lack of confidence he showed after the summer and the ramos affair and you've got one very raw deal, with no way out for him.

I do however think ramos is better!

 

[Gilzeanking]

And this is the bottom line..we're stronger now with Ramos .

The only place in the world where anyone still argues that Jol is better than JR is in these pages .

Levy's job is to strengthen the club . We are stronger .

This endless derision handed out to Levy for his pre season statement that our aim was top 4 is SO out of order .

Go back to all the pundit predictions pre season . Numerous observers considered we were CL contenders . 3 games into the season the truth was clear . Levy/Kelmsley/whoever went out and got a World Class coach to our unsuccessful and bottom 3 club with a tiny ground .

A fantastic achievement .

 

[SpurSince57]

It was two games in. Kemsley and Alexander (and, rumour has it, Levy and Comolli too) met Ramos and didn't make him an offer on the 17th August. We played Everton on the 14th, Derby on the 18th. So you're saying the board panicked after two bad results? That so fills me with confidence.

Besides, you're confusing the issue. It's nothing to do with whether Jol or Ramos is the better manager. It's to do with the crashingly obvious fact that we've spent £20m already in a January window and, for all any of us knows, may yet spend a good deal more. Whatever casuistry you employ to suggest that this is mere minor tinkering, we're spending big to strengthen a squad that wasn't quite as strong as some supposed, despite the outlay of £40m in the summer on players that weren't an immediate and significant improvement on what we had already. This is, of course, absolutely nothing to do with Ramos.

Now, do remind me, what did Levy say in December?

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

I have to take issue with the notion that Jol's performances this season was worse than Gross, Ardiles and Santini. In fact, I'd say that most Jol-haters would also disagree with the statement, ludicrous as it is. Jol had two games in charge of Spurs this season before Ramos-gate started and his position at the club was fatally undermined. We lost both games, but losing two games in a row doesn't suddenly turn a decent coach into our worst ever coach. After 2 games Man Utd had 1 point and no goals, but their board didn't decide to hang Ferguson out to dry.

I was a big fan of Jol, but I'm not stuck in the past. I think Ramos looks fantastic and it's a bittersweet feeling to acknowledge that he's doing better than Jol could. I am pleased Ramos is in charge at the club. But let's not rewrite history and pretend that Jol was a bad coach. Two top-five finishes and some excellent cup runs say otherwise. It's possible to appreciate Juande without automatically slagging off Jol.

 

[idlepete]

The only place in the world where anyone still argues that Jol is better than JR is in these pages.

I've not seen anyone argue that, on SC or anywhere else. The only thing I've seen that you might mistake for that is justified criticism of the board.

 

[Legend10]

And this is the bottom line..we're stronger now with Ramos .

The only place in the world where anyone still argues that Jol is better than JR is in these pages .

Levy's job is to strengthen the club . We are stronger .

This endless derision handed out to Levy for his pre season statement that our aim was top 4 is SO out of order .

Go back to all the pundit predictions pre season . Numerous observers considered we were CL contenders . 3 games into the season the truth was clear . Levy/Kelmsley/whoever went out and got a World Class coach to our unsuccessful and bottom 3 club with a tiny ground .

A fantastic achievement .

Exactly right and Ramos has shown possibly CL form with a pro rata 63 points from inheriting a squad which in his own words wasn't fit enough for Prem football, disorganised, low in morale and devoid of confidence.

Anybody who doesn't agree with those sentiments obviously wouldn't have seen Spurs play this season before Ramos arrived so it is a pretty fair assesment.

So how has Ramos shown CL form in the league as well as taken us to a cup final with what some would say is a crap squad?

He might be good Ramos, he might even be excellent (I believe he is) but he isn't God or a miracle worker he has just demonstrated that Levy's words were correct, we do have and have had a squad which is capable of challenging for the top 4.

The supposed policy we had towards signing players is exactly that "supposed". Branded about on sites like this by people whio believe that they know the inner workings of the club and how Levy, Comolli, Ramos & previously Jol work together. Who has responsibility for what, they know why we didn't sign Distin or Petrov and they know why we did sign kaboul and Bent and others. Even now they know that Ramos is solely responsible for the good transfers and they know Ramos is throwing his weight around with the board and they know that comolli is taking a back seat for Ramos's first 2 transfer windows etc etc.

The truth is they know absolutely jack shit as has been ably demonstrated by the ITK thread on the Transfer Forum page which should probably be re-named the "nobody has a clue who we're after and what we're doing thread".

I can only once remember Levy making any comment on the clubs transfer policy and as far as I am aware it has been a consistent statement and one that we have succeeded in, that statement being "It is the clubs intention to emerge in a stronger position from each and every transfer window." Or words to that efect.

Once again that sentiment is going to come true, this club is moving forward, its moved forwards since Levy come to the club and indeed it has moved forward since Comolli was appointed..

It's not going to be easy for anybody to challenge the dominance of the top 4 but although we are nowhere near this season with our board, management team and squad we are in a better position than anybody else to do so!

Personally I believe Levy takes great credit for that.

 

[SpurSince57]

Have you considered applying for a job with our press office?

 

[Legend10]

Have you considered applying for a job with our press office?

Funnily enough.....

No!

But what I don't understand and hopefully you can enlighten me on it is the constant knocking, whinging and whining about the club and in particular Levy & Comolli (without even mentioning emsley)?

I look at a club now that has all the ingredients in place to try and push on and challenge for success.

I admit that towards the end I was anti Jol and wanted him replaced and was happy and relieved when the club eventually done it. But and to me this is a big but, I based my opinions on Jol on what I witnessed with my own eyes. I based it on what I saw at games in terms of selections, tactics, fitness, substitutions etc etc. And over a period of time I made my ownmind up that he wasn't good enough to manage a great club like Spurs. I didn't come to my conclusion based on 2nd hand information, or on what people were writing on forums or chatting down the pub.

What I see with Levy and Comolli is people judging them and slating them based on absolutely no factual information what so ever. I've seen people write that Comolli is a shit negotaitor and people rep the post and join the bandwagon. How the hell does anybody on this site know how good a negotiator Comolli is? It's totally laughable!

I see people constantly becry our transfer policy, how thehelldoes anybody on this site know what our transfer policy is?

I see people say that this player was a Comolli signing and this one was a Jol signing, how the hell does anybody on this site know this?

And on it goes.

I'm all for people having opinion and posting opinion after all what is football without it. However some people on this forum and others post their opinion as if it's fact when in all reality they know absolutely jack shit about any of the inner workings of the club.

What a beauty the one about Comolli handing over to Ramos for the next 2 transfer windows, totally pathetic. people honestly believe that the inner circle sets its policy on a major part of the clubs future investments and then they walk out of the door and start telling people, yeah of course they do. Next minute its being put all over the forums as fact because some idiot somewhere has made up some ridiculous pile of shit.

You may not be happy with the clubs leadership and you are obviously an intelligent guy and in your own mind you obviously have good reason.

I and others like me who may well not be as intelligent are happy with the clubs leadership, we have a great squad and I beleive 1 of the most sort after managers in the game. I believe the club to be in a better position than since I can possibly remember and I'm more than happy with that.

I wonder if the intellects are the unhappy ones and the football people like me are the happy ones?

 

[yanno]

I don't think we spent the money badly, but time will tell. I trade on sports for a living. We generate as close as possible to true odds and by comparing them to the market we find value. That does not mean we'll always back the most likely outcome, or that we always win, and the acme of our success is not that we did well or did poorly on this game or that, with this bet or that one, it is judged in the round, year on year, in the knowledge that regardless of specific results over the long term we are profitable. Transfers policy is exactly like this.

sloth - I understand the principles of "value betting" and, whilst there are some similarities, I don't think they accurately encapsulate a football club's transfer policy.

I suspect your argument is that if one identifies genuine value, then even though you may not win every bet, you will win more than chance and thus over a sufficiently long period of time, this identification of value will lead to profit. So, applied to transfer policy, this would rely on our signings proving to be "value" over time: there may be some duds, but if all the signings were good value at the price, enough should succeed to make the exercise a profitable and successful one.

Now, by this argument, signing Carrick for £2.75 million and selling him for £18 million, or Berba for £10.9 million and seeing his value rise to over £30 million, is evidence that our transfer policy has spectacularly identified "value". And it's true that Kaboul and Taarabt, for example, may prove to be "value" signings in a couple of years time.

So, I wouldn't argue that we should always seek to identify "value" in our transfer dealings - that's pretty obvious.

The fundamental difference though is that transfer policy is about team building: identifying needs and filling them. And this is where the signings of Kaboul and Boateng - for c£14 million - are questionable. Both have talent, but neither are ready for an EPL side pushing for the Top Four. Indeed, it's even being suggested by ITKs that one or both may be loaned out to gain more experience.

I agree that with transfers you win some and lose some, and often players take time to adapt to a new country and a new league. But for me the signings of Woodgate and Gilberto, for around £10 million, are far more what we need to improve the squad and push for the CL than the signings of Kaboul and Boateng for £14 million.

 

[sloth]

sloth - I understand the principles of "value betting" and, whilst there are some similarities, I don't think they accurately encapsulate a football club's transfer policy.

I suspect your argument is that if one identifies genuine value, then even though you may not win every bet, you will win more than chance and thus over a sufficiently long period of time, this identification of value will lead to profit. So, applied to transfer policy, this would rely on our signings proving to be "value" over time: there may be some duds, but if all the signings were good value at the price, enough should succeed to make the exercise a profitable and successful one.

Now, by this argument, signing Carrick for £2.75 million and selling him for £18 million, or Berba for £10.9 million and seeing his value rise to over £30 million, is evidence that our transfer policy has spectacularly identified "value". And it's true that Kaboul and Taarabt, for example, may prove to be "value" signings in a couple of years time.

So, I wouldn't argue that we should always seek to identify "value" in our transfer dealings - that's pretty obvious.

The fundamental difference though is that transfer policy is about team building: identifying needs and filling them. And this is where the signings of Kaboul and Boateng - for c£14 million - are questionable. Both have talent, but neither are ready for an EPL side pushing for the Top Four. Indeed, it's even being suggested by ITKs that one or both may be loaned out to gain more experience.

I agree that with transfers you win some and lose some, and often players take time to adapt to a new country and a new league. But for me the signings of Woodgate and Gilberto, for around £10 million, are far more what we need to improve the squad and push for the CL than the signings of Kaboul and Boateng for £14 million.

You're spot on with your interpretation of what I was saying, that is exactly what I meant, however I think value can be defined in terms wider than the monetary kind.

In fact I think the club assesses value on a number of basis of which the financial is only one. I think Darren Bent is a prime example of this, on the face of it we paid a lot for a player in a position for which we have plenty of coverage. And this is perplexing for many, absurd for many others. We can certainly see that if cost were the defining factor we'd have been unlikely to buy him.

I was and remain happy with that decision, even he proves a flop I'm happy with it. We looked at the side and said that we have no strike-force worth its salt if Berbatov is out, therefore we need to purchase a striker. We looked around and found a young man, with a fantastic scoring record in the Premiership and with a track record of playing as a lone striker as well as in partnerships, he was available on medium wages but for a high transfer fee and we signed him on a long contract.

I believe the signing strengthened us immediately, however it may turn out that he is a flop. This doesn't discredit the decision to buy him and if circumstances repeat themselves in the future I hope they make the same decision again.

 

[muffwah]

Just wondering what has happened to our supposed transfer policy that so many people have been complaining about and one of the reasons why levy is a crap chairman?

Haven't we been told repeatedly that Levy won't sanction the signing players over the age of 27 because of their inherent value?

This is the reason that we couldn't sign Distin even though he was a Bosman and Levy & Comolli were hungout to dry for that. And what about petrov? Well Levy would never paY £5 million for a 28 year old, would he?

Well the myth has been well and truly smashed this window.

Circa £7 million for a 28 year old, whether we sign Gilberto or not I think it's fairly clear that we are trying to get him in now whilst we have to pay a fee rather than waiting for a Bosman in the summer, and he is 31/32.

And before people say Ramos has forced them (Levy & Comolli) to do it they need to be realistic. Becauase senior managers don't push around PLC Directors and Chairman in any business and that includes football.

Levy has sanctioned the deals because he feels it is the right thing to do for the football club and will give us an increased chance of success which will also see its rewards on the accounts.

In Levy I trust!

the policy is bullshit, the club have never said it exists.

we have signed players over that age, just not for big money understandably.

The club has always said invest in young players and bring in a few experienced ones to complement them.

 

[DogsOfWar]

The point that a lot of people seem to miss on our transfer policy is that all transfers stem from the manager.
It is the manager who says this player or that player is not good enough and that he wants them replaced. He is the man solely in charge of the first team.

Players such as KPB and Kaboul were not bought in to replace Dawson or Jenas, they were bought in to provide strength in depth.
Had Jol thought that Dawson was not good enough then I have no doubt we would have got someone like Distin in. But seeing as Jol played him every time he was available I would assume that this was not the case (as most fans would have felt at the time) so we bought in a fourth choice youngster who will hopefully develop.

Our policy hasn't changed, just the manager.

Ramos has come in and either doesn't see Dawson as a starter or is worried over King's fitness and has informed Commolli we need another starting CB so Commolli has gone out and acquired a top quality CB for a very good price.
Commolli has bough another decent youngster in Gunter for peanuts so there is no change there and both he and Ramos seem keen on replacing Chimbonda with a younger model in Hutton so they would certainly seem to be in agreement on that one.

A good example of why there was not a lot wrong with our policy is the game against Arsenal. That was last years team with an average age of 25/26 beating one of the best teams in Europe. That was Jol's starting eleven and the one he seemed to feel should be challenging the top four and after that performance he was quite right.
Unfortunately he never got to play that team this season and he didn't quite have the nous to get the team through the injury crisis like Ramos did.

As I've said before there is nothing wrong with our squad of players and therefore our transfer policy, just an unfortunate set of injuries and a manager who couldn't cope with them.

 

[Doctor Who]

levy is trash