What on Earth is going on with Feyenoord?

[Mullers]

Its a bit of a jump and assumption to suggest that swinging from a tree is a reference to lynchings of black people in America however many years ago

Its not a nice song, I don't agree with the song personally but I really don't think its fair to label it racist when in my opinion it was quite clearly meant to be a reference to the potential of him hanging himself because at the time he was in the press talking about his depression

As for the Adebayor song - it was about him being African yes, but I feel like if there were stereotypical songs about Italian players and pasta or whatever shit no one would really care. It's a playful song making fun about stereotypes and I do find it a bit political correctness gone mad when people get up in arms about it being racist

I've said many times that I've never heard a black person take exception to it, only ever seems to be white people who are offended by it and it strikes me as being extreme political correctness (no one would say anything if there were a song about Irish players and leprechauns or being drunkards whatever)

But just because you haven't heard a black person take exception to it, it doesn't mean that there aren't any black people who don't take exception. The player himself took exception to it.
http://metro.co.uk/2011/04/07/emmanuel-adebayor-on-spurs-fans-chants-i-cant-stop-racism-649879/

If it was a song about Irish stereotypes, leprechauns,drunkards,stupidity I think much less would be said but people would still say something.

They would say even more if it was chants about the IRA.The Irish were put in the same bracket as the blacks and dogs in the 1960's so it's not something that should be forgotten.
Italians only eating spaghetti, it's a stereotype but a much less harmless one than the Irish example.

 

[Shea]

But just because you haven't heard a black person take exception to it, it doesn't mean that there aren't any black people who don't take exception. The player himself took exception to it.
http://metro.co.uk/2011/04/07/emmanuel-adebayor-on-spurs-fans-chants-i-cant-stop-racism-649879/

If it was a song about Irish stereotypes, leprechauns,drunkards,stupidity I think much less would be said but people would still say something.

They would say even more if it was chants about the IRA.The Irish were put in the same bracket as the blacks and dogs in the 1960's so it's not something that should be forgotten.
Italians only eating spaghetti, it's a stereotype but a much less harmless one than the Irish example.

No I know, I never said that no black people would take exception to it - just that I had never heard one (and that I have spoken to many about it)

Trust me the no blacks, no irish, no dogs is not something I am forgetting - my dad was born in Ireland and came here in the 60s. My family lived in the rented rooms that would accept blacks, Irish and dogs and I have been told the stories both from my family and my best friend since childhood's family who are Jamaican and grew up in same part of Shepherd's bush as my dad at the same time

My nan was spat at just for being Irish when applying for work - trust me I am well aware of the history

But really - Ade also said his mum is wishing bad Juju pon him so I'm not really ready to accept his personal opinion of the situation of the defining voice on the matter

I don't think it's racist, I don't even think its particularly offensive - this is football not lawn tennis and while I think it is important to ensure racism is kicked out of the sport I don't think it should go as far as to make anything relating to a subject taboo and off the table to even mention (it becomes reverse racism)

Really what harm would an Irish chant be doing? indeed what harm is the Adebayor chant doing? aside from offending him as an individual, if so where do we draw the line? ban all chants that are offensive to players?

I'm not condoning racism in football by any means, my girlfriend of some 12 years his half black as are many of my closest friends. I do however think the distinction between what is actually racist and offensive needs to be made over what is banter and funny/witty whilst being harmless in its intent and in my opinion the Adebayor song fell into the latter category (though of course that is just my opinion and you are welcome to disagree)

I think the Campbell song was offensive and probably crossed the line, but not for race related issues. I also think chants about players wives or kids (like Beckham used to be subjected to) and family members (as we chanted and Jermain Pennant for example) are more offensive and nasty in their intent than than the Adebayor one for example yet I do not see people being up in arms up these

I'm all for banning that what crosses the line in football support - no way would I want stadiums to be a place black supporters and players felt uncomfortable or intimidated as I'm sure they were in the 70s and 80s but I really don't want things to go so far that political correctness takes over and turns the sport in to something resembling watching old people play bowls down the local green where no one can make a sound aside from a quick round of applause when a good shot is made (we already are told to sit down at football matches and the level of censorship in the songs i.e. Yid army and anything that relates to nationality regardless of the lack of intended offence in its context is just going too far for me)

This is all just my opinion, sorry if it read as my making statements of fact, I'm just expressing what I think and what I observe in my own experience of these situations. Personally I don't think the Ade song is or was crossing the line, I think it was somewhat offensive maybe, but to me it was within the range I would label banter still (maybe this is a reflection of my own personality) and I would not like that sort of banter to be removed from the game because political correctness lumps it together with the racist acts and chants we see from the Chelsea fans for example (which is what actually needs to be eradicated from the game)

 

[dk-yid]

Its a bit of a jump and assumption to suggest that swinging from a tree is a reference to lynchings of black people in America however many years ago

Its not a nice song, I don't agree with the song personally but I really don't think its fair to label it racist when in my opinion it was quite clearly meant to be a reference to the potential of him hanging himself because at the time he was in the press talking about his depression

As for the Adebayor song - it was about him being African yes, but I feel like if there were stereotypical songs about Italian players and pasta or whatever shit no one would really care. It's a playful song making fun about stereotypes and I do find it a bit political correctness gone mad when people get up in arms about it being racist

I've said many times that I've never heard a black person take exception to it, only ever seems to be white people who are offended by it and it strikes me as being extreme political correctness (no one would say anything if there were a song about Irish players and leprechauns or being drunkards whatever)

I'm pretty sure that I could find roughly 95-99 out of 100 on the African continent who would take offense.

It's a fucking awful song, and trying to cover it up by the now regular 'there is too much political correctness' line is just another way for xenophobic, racist, derogatory, discriminatory etc. acts to be neatly ignored or downplayed.

Edit: in the meantime you have clarified your point which I read as more nuanced. I still find the chant hugely offensive and stand by my point about hiding behind the 'too much pc' but I get the sense that I might have been to rash to judge you.

 

[Shea]

I'm pretty sure that I could find roughly 95-99 out of 100 on the African continent who would take offense.

It's a fucking awful song, and trying to cover it up by the now regular 'there is too much political correctness' line is just another way for xenophobic, racist, derogatory, discriminatory etc. acts to be neatly ignored or downplayed.

You're sure that many African's would take offence to it are you? Ok

I can only say I disagree

I'm not trying to cover anything up - I am just giving my personal opinion on the matter.

If you think I am being racist or xenophobic ok, again I disagree.

 

[dk-yid]

You're sure that many African's would take offence to it are you? Ok

I can only say I disagree

I'm not trying to cover anything up - I am just giving my personal opinion on the matter.

If you think I am being racist or xenophobic ok, again I disagree.

See my edit in my original post.

And yes, I am adamant that Africans will take offense. They take offense of the stereotyping of them in general, and these kind of chants directed at an African player does not go down well at all.

 

[Shea]

See my edit in my original post.

And yes, I am adamant that Africans will take offense. They take offense of the stereotyping of them in general, and these kind of chants directed at an African player does not go down well at all.

I have many African friends and even more friends of Caribbean heritage (although to be fair they're probably more likely to be making joking insults of Africans than taking offense to them) - granted this is a very small sample of the world wide African population but none of them I can honestly say that none have ever expressed any offense taken to this situation (and none being Spurs fans they would love to use it against my club when bantering with me all things football)

I agree that Africans dislike the stereotypes about Africans in African being uncivilised and not having large City's etc but to be honest they mostly just find it funny that in this day and age people are so stupid that they would actually believe that to be the case

Equally I think most would understand the context of the Adebayor song and take it in the humour it was in my opinion intended - its not meant to be a reflection of Africa or Africans, its just a song to take the piss out of a player who was a rival team player at the time

Maybe I spent too much time on building sites from the time I was a kid til I was in my 30s and changed my career and as a result I have a different view on where the lines between banter and offense falls due to context when it comes to these matters but personally as I said before I think it is important to make a distinction between what is offensive and what is slapstick and funny and in my personally opinion the Ade song was more funny than offensive in its intent and delivery

Racism is not a subject I take lightly either - my girlfriends cousin was murdered just for being black with a white girl in Liverpool, I attended the funeral and witnessed the pain and suffering amongst the friends and family and it was very emotional, heart breaking in fact, yet still I don't agree with the notion that the Adebayor song is particularly offensive

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

UEFA Cup Final '74 was very nasty.

Yes it was. My first away European game, what a baptism that was.

 

[Mullers]

No I know, I never said that no black people would take exception to it - just that I had never heard one (and that I have spoken to many about it)

Trust me the no blacks, no irish, no dogs is not something I am forgetting - my dad was born in Ireland and came here in the 60s. My family lived in the rented rooms that would accept blacks, Irish and dogs and I have been told the stories both from my family and my best friend since childhood's family who are Jamaican and grew up in same part of Shepherd's bush as my dad at the same time

My nan was spat at just for being Irish when applying for work - trust me I am well aware of the history

But really - Ade also said his mum is wishing bad Juju pon him so I'm not really ready to accept his personal opinion of the situation of the defining voice on the matter

I don't think it's racist, I don't even think its particularly offensive - this is football not lawn tennis and while I think it is important to ensure racism is kicked out of the sport I don't think it should go as far as to make anything relating to a subject taboo and off the table to even mention (it becomes reverse racism)

Really what harm would an Irish chant be doing? indeed what harm is the Adebayor chant doing? aside from offending him as an individual, if so where do we draw the line? ban all chants that are offensive to players?

I'm not condoning racism in football by any means, my girlfriend of some 12 years his half black as are many of my closest friends. I do however think the distinction between what is actually racist and offensive needs to be made over what is banter and funny/witty whilst being harmless in its intent and in my opinion the Adebayor song fell into the latter category (though of course that is just my opinion and you are welcome to disagree)

I think the Campbell song was offensive and probably crossed the line, but not for race related issues. I also think chants about players wives or kids (like Beckham used to be subjected to) and family members (as we chanted and Jermain Pennant for example) are more offensive and nasty in their intent than than the Adebayor one for example yet I do not see people being up in arms up these

I'm all for banning that what crosses the line in football support - no way would I want stadiums to be a place black supporters and players felt uncomfortable or intimidated as I'm sure they were in the 70s and 80s but I really don't want things to go so far that political correctness takes over and turns the sport in to something resembling watching old people play bowls down the local green where no one can make a sound aside from a quick round of applause when a good shot is made (we already are told to sit down at football matches and the level of censorship in the songs i.e. Yid army and anything that relates to nationality regardless of the lack of intended offence in its context is just going too far for me)

This is all just my opinion, sorry if it read as my making statements of fact, I'm just expressing what I think and what I observe in my own experience of these situations. Personally I don't think the Ade song is or was crossing the line, I think it was somewhat offensive maybe, but to me it was within the range I would label banter still (maybe this is a reflection of my own personality) and I would not like that sort of banter to be removed from the game because political correctness lumps it together with the racist acts and chants we see from the Chelsea fans for example (which is what actually needs to be eradicated from the game)

It's not really the place of a overwhelming white majority crowd to tell a black African what he should and should not be offended by. What is banter to one person is racism to another. I would say that what ever the ethnic group was.
The juju story I found hilarious but that doesn't mean that everything Adebayor says should be disregarded.

You say what harm can the Adebayor chant or an Irish chant do, the chants compounds stereotypes and there is a significant amount of bigoted amongst the crowd further more there are young children in the crowd they shouldn't be taught that kind of thing is acceptable.

The crowd did this chant because Adebayor is a black African, the adaptation of the sol campbell song and to an extent the booing and hatred coming from sections of the crowd is because he is a black African. If he was a white South African this chant never would have materialised.

 

[Shea]

It's not really the place of a overwhelming white majority crowd to tell a black African what he should and should not be offended by. What is banter to one person is racism to another. I would say that what ever the ethnic group was.
The juju story I found hilarious but that doesn't mean that everything Adebayor says should be disregarded.

You say what harm can the Adebayor chant or an Irish chant do, the chants compounds stereotypes and there is a significant amount of bigoted amongst the crowd further more there are young children in the crowd they shouldn't be taught that kind of thing is acceptable.

The crowd did this chant because Adebayor is a black African, the adaptation of the sol campbell song and to an extent the booing and hatred coming from sections of the crowd is because he is a black African. If he was a white South African this chant never would have materialised.

I know its not for the majority (or even for me) to tell people what they should or shouldn't be offended by but by the same token we have people like David Baddiel telling us that they're offended by our usage of the word Yid

By the same logic you're applying here surely we should be banned from using that then - it's not for us to tell David Baddiel and others who share his view that they shouldn't be offended by our use of the word because of the context we intend it

This is where I disagree with you - I think context is key and in my opinion Baddiel is taking our use of the word Yid out of context in the same fashion people are taking the Ade song out of context

It's my opinion of course, but I don't think the Ade song is racist and certainly not harmful

How far do you want to take it? Yid can be used as a racist term in a different context, should we ban that because little kids might here it and think its acceptable? should we ban all swearing from the game in case the kids hear it and start swearing at school on the Monday? Shall we just term the crowd into one that resembles Wimbledon tennis and let the refs call for silence so the players can concentrate?

How can you know that any of the booing and hatred has anything at all to do with his skin colour or nationality? I would suggest it is because there was already a dislike for him from his Arsenal connection which has now resurfaced because of the crowds perception of his lack of effort while sitting around collecting a huge wage from the club (I see no reason to believe the same wouldn't apply to a white, asian or purlpe skinned alien player if he were putting no effort in and collecting such a large wage)

The elephant line in my opinion is the only area for debate - I agree of course that it is only used because he is a black African, what I disagree with is that it crosses the line between what is considered playful banter and racism. I understand what you're saying when you say Ade thinks its offensive and we cannot tell him not to but then how can we tell Baddiel that he has no right to find Yid offensive then? If we agree that the context in which it is used is important for Yid then the same should apply for the Ade song

 

[Lilbaz]

Judging from the shit I heard in Florence yesterday we need to stfu, stop throwing stones at glass houses & sort out our own backyard on the racism front

I was in Florence from Wednesday till last night and didn't hear our fans singing any racist songs. I didn't hear any songs regarding Sol or Ade. There were a few fans who had a bit too much to drink but on the whole we were very well behaved. None of the bar owners had any complaints and the majority of american students thought we were great. Quite a few decided to go to the match because we were fun (though they were in the Fiorentina end). One loved the Arsenal fan on a string song and spent the next two days calling everyone a cockney wanker.

Please don't put us in the same category as the Feyonoord fans.

 

[Shea]

I was in Florence from Wednesday till last night and didn't hear our fans singing any racist songs. I didn't hear any songs regarding Sol or Ade. There were a few fans who had a bit too much to drink but on the whole we were very well behaved. None of the bar owners had any complaints and the majority of american students thought we were great. Quite a few decided to go to the match because we were fun (though they were in the Fiorentina end). One loved the Arsenal fan on a string song and spent the next two days calling everyone a cockney wanker.

Please don't put us in the same category as the Feyonoord fans.

This is the issue I have been trying to take up with the comparison be labelled at our fans

Even if you feel as posters like @Mullers have made clear they do that the songs about Ade and Sol are crossing the line in to racism and don't have a place in the rotation of songs from our fans - It is in my opinion just plain wrong to even compare them to what is mentioned at Feyonoord or what we've seen from Chelsea fans in recent weeks (black guy on train and "we're racist and that's the way we like it songs")

 

[Lilbaz]

Don't know how true this is (heard it from an Italian) but there were no Roma fans in Feyenoord. As the Feyenoord ultras had threatened (in e-mails to Roma)to cut the throats of any Italians that came over. When one bar owner told some Italians that the bar would be closing at 12 due to the football I apologised to them. They said it wasn't Tottenhams fault they blamed the dutch and the mayor.

 

[Mullers]

I know its not for the majority (or even for me) to tell people what they should or shouldn't be offended by but by the same token we have people like David Baddiel telling us that they're offended by our usage of the word Yid

By the same logic you're applying here surely we should be banned from using that then - it's not for us to tell David Baddiel and others who share his view that they shouldn't be offended by our use of the word because of the context we intend it

This is where I disagree with you - I think context is key and in my opinion Baddiel is taking our use of the word Yid out of context in the same fashion people are taking the Ade song out of context

It's my opinion of course, but I don't think the Ade song is racist and certainly not harmful

How far do you want to take it? Yid can be used as a racist term in a different context, should we ban that because little kids might here it and think its acceptable? should we ban all swearing from the game in case the kids hear it and start swearing at school on the Monday? Shall we just term the crowd into one that resembles Wimbledon tennis and let the refs call for silence so the players can concentrate?

How can you know that any of the booing and hatred has anything at all to do with his skin colour or nationality? I would suggest it is because there was already a dislike for him from his Arsenal connection which has now resurfaced because of the crowds perception of his lack of effort while sitting around collecting a huge wage from the club (I see no reason to believe the same wouldn't apply to a white, asian or purlpe skinned alien player if he were putting no effort in and collecting such a large wage)

The elephant line in my opinion is the only area for debate - I agree of course that it is only used because he is a black African, what I disagree with is that it crosses the line between what is considered playful banter and racism. I understand what you're saying when you say Ade thinks its offensive and we cannot tell him not to but then how can we tell Baddiel that he has no right to find Yid offensive then? If we agree that the context in which it is used is important for Yid then the same should apply for the Ade song

I don't fully agree with Baddiel but I can see where he is coming from of course I know that people who chant it mean no offence. In my view it's usuage is outdated now and a lot of people are just chanting it out of defiance, not to associate themselves with Jews or fight racism. If people stopped chanting it tomorrow it really wouldn't harm the atmosphere.

This is a grey area, banning doesn't work as the police have shown with their laughable antics.

I think football grounds would make for a better family atmosphere without swearing.
It's not really a good idea to have young kids thinking it's ok to swear at players and the ref, we're all guilty of doing it, but it's not a great example for a young child to follow and realistically.

How do I know any of the booing and hatred has anything at all to do with his skin colour or nationality?

We have a minority of supporters who are racist therefore there is a strong possibility that some of the booing is to do with his colour and nationality.

Berbatov refused to play for the club and wanted out from the time Jol was in charge but plenty of people wanted him back when he was available. What Adebayor has done isn't really in that league, it doesn't justify saying he should hang from a tree and get HIV.

There was a Ghaly who got teeth knocked out but just because he threw the shirt down in a heated moment he got hounded out of the club, Keano apparently did the same and nothing happen. So it's not the same treatment for everybody regardless of ethnicity.

I don't want Adebayor at the club and I said at the time when it was taking the whole summer to negotiate a deal we should move on. It's Levy who decided to pay the wages that he got, Adebayor just outlevyed Levy. Adebayor has proved himself more than Soldado and some of the summer signings though.

 

[Mullers]

I was in Florence from Wednesday till last night and didn't hear our fans singing any racist songs. I didn't hear any songs regarding Sol or Ade. There were a few fans who had a bit too much to drink but on the whole we were very well behaved. None of the bar owners had any complaints and the majority of american students thought we were great. Quite a few decided to go to the match because we were fun (though they were in the Fiorentina end). One loved the Arsenal fan on a string song and spent the next two days calling everyone a cockney wanker.

Please don't put us in the same category as the Feyonoord fans.

Ok but it doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means that you didn't hear it.

 

[Lilbaz]

Ok but it doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means that you didn't hear it.

We've got racist fans, every club does. But we certainly didn't cause the same level of trouble as Feyenoord fans did in Rome. Comparing our support in Florence to what happened in Rome is a joke. Did any of our fans get arrested? Was there any damage caused? As far as I'm aware the only problem was a 50 year old woman not being allowed into the game because she didn't have photo id. The way we were treated getting into the game was a joke and it is to our credit that there was no trouble. We have been attacked in Rome and Lyon, yet still have kept out heads.

If you want to be ashamed of our fans, so be it. Some of them were a bit annoying and rude. But having spent a couple of days on the piss I think any group of men could be. I am not ashamed and the people I met that live work or study there had a good time with us.

 

[Shea]

I don't fully agree with Baddiel but I can see where he is coming from of course I know that people who chant it mean no offence. In my view it's usuage is outdated now and a lot of people are just chanting it out of defiance, not to associate themselves with Jews or fight racism. If people stopped chanting it tomorrow it really wouldn't harm the atmosphere.

This is a grey area, banning doesn't work as the police have shown with their laughable antics.

I think football grounds would make for a better family atmosphere without swearing.
It's not really a good idea to have young kids thinking it's ok to swear at players and the ref, we're all guilty of doing it, but it's not a great example for a young child to follow and realistically.

How do I know any of the booing and hatred has anything at all to do with his skin colour or nationality?

We have a minority of supporters who are racist therefore there is a strong possibility that some of the booing is to do with his colour and nationality.

Berbatov refused to play for the club and wanted out from the time Jol was in charge but plenty of people wanted him back when he was available. What Adebayor has done isn't really in that league, it doesn't justify saying he should hang from a tree and get HIV.

There was a Ghaly who got teeth knocked out but just because he threw the shirt down in a heated moment he got hounded out of the club, Keano apparently did the same and nothing happen. So it's not the same treatment for everybody regardless of ethnicity.

I don't want Adebayor at the club and I said at the time when it was taking the whole summer to negotiate a deal we should move on. It's Levy who decided to pay the wages that he got, Adebayor just outlevyed Levy. Adebayor has proved himself more than Soldado and some of the summer signings though.

So you're saying you think there is a strong possibility that some of the possibility is based on his colour or nationality because you think we have a minority racist element associated with the club

I think you're using your own assumptions and stating them as facts - strong possibility based on what you perceive. I don't think it's right for you to be assuming that people who are booing Adebayor are doing so because of his colour or wouldn't do so if he were white (not when there are other factors such as his Arsenal connection and perceived lack of work rate plus huge wage that could just as easily, and in my opinion more likely be the reason for the dislike)

I think the Ghaly treatment was harsh, but Keane was a beloved icon so I think that would explain the reason he would be given more allowance for such action than Ghaly and not their respective nationalities or skin colours - there's certainly a stronger possibility that Keane would be forgiven because of all he had done for the club than because he was White Irish and not Egyptian

I can't even remember Keane throwing the shirt to be hones, but then personally I never thought Ghaly doing it was a big deal either.

I can't say I have ever heard any racism at White Hart Lane from our crowd, and I've been going since I was 6 and was a season ticket holder for many years. I'm sure there are the odd individual such is the nature of society but enough to call it an element within our club? I can't agree

You seem very quick to assume other people or being racist or that race/nationality is the motivating factor behind these acts when in all honesty I think there are other factors more likely to be the reason

 

[Mullers]

We've got racist fans, every club does. But we certainly didn't cause the same level of trouble as Feyenoord fans did in Rome. Comparing our support in Florence to what happened in Rome is a joke. Did any of our fans get arrested? Was there any damage caused? As far as I'm aware the only problem was a 50 year old woman not being allowed into the game because she didn't have photo id. The way we were treated getting into the game was a joke and it is to our credit that there was no trouble. We have been attacked in Rome and Lyon, yet still have kept out heads.

If you want to be ashamed of our fans, so be it. Some of them were a bit annoying and rude. But having spent a couple of days on the piss I think any group of men could be. I am not ashamed and the people I met that live work or study there had a good time with us.

I didn't make any comparisons and I didn't say I was ashamed of our fans. Even if they did anything I wouldn't feel any shame because it's not me that has done it.

 

[Mullers]

So you're saying you think there is a strong possibility that some of the possibility is based on his colour or nationality because you think we have a minority racist element associated with the club

I think you're using your own assumptions and stating them as facts - strong possibility based on what you perceive. I don't think it's right for you to be assuming that people who are booing Adebayor are doing so because of his colour or wouldn't do so if he were white (not when there are other factors such as his Arsenal connection and perceived lack of work rate plus huge wage that could just as easily, and in my opinion more likely be the reason for the dislike)

I think the Ghaly treatment was harsh, but Keane was a beloved icon so I think that would explain the reason he would be given more allowance for such action than Ghaly and not their respective nationalities or skin colours - there's certainly a stronger possibility that Keane would be forgiven because of all he had done for the club than because he was White Irish and not Egyptian

I can't even remember Keane throwing the shirt to be hones, but then personally I never thought Ghaly doing it was a big deal either.

I can't say I have ever heard any racism at White Hart Lane from our crowd, and I've been going since I was 6 and was a season ticket holder for many years. I'm sure there are the odd individual such is the nature of society but enough to call it an element within our club? I can't agree

You seem very quick to assume other people or being racist or that race/nationality is the motivating factor behind these acts when in all honesty I think there are other factors more likely to be the reason

Yep these are my own opinions but I haven't stated them as facts. I'm not saying that all the people there are booing Adebayor because he is a black African, I'm saying some of them are. I'd be surprised if people were still booing him over his Arsenal connection, he's been at the club 3 years now. I can acknowledge that played a part in why the crowd initiated the chant when he wasn't at the club but the content specifically the part about his dad washing elephants I believe was said because he was a black African, had he been a white African I don't believe that would have been said.

This is at least one case of not only Adebayor but Gallas being racial abused as well.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/on-encountering-racism-at-white-hart-lane.96236/

The fact that Keano was a beloved icon would be an explantion to why he was given allowance but do you not find it odd that these same people can't find it in the heart to forgive Ghaly after he didn't play for nearly 2 years and subjected him to over the top abuse?

Do you not find it reasonable for me to speculate that the reason he got that treatment was to do with being Egyptian and/or muslim and that there was an element who used his shirt being thrown down as an excuse to hound him out of the club?

Again I don't discount your experiences but I have to disagree that it's the odd indivial that is racist amongst thousands of supporters. We have our own hooligan gangs, Tottenham massive, tottenham casuals it's not really a stretch to suggest some of these muppets could be racist.

 

[Shea]

Yep these are my own opinions but I haven't stated them as facts. I'm not saying that all the people there are booing Adebayor because he is a black African, I'm saying some of them are. I'd be surprised if people were still booing him over his Arsenal connection, he's been at the club 3 years now. I can acknowledge that played a part in why the crowd initiated the chant when he wasn't at the club but the content specifically the part about his dad washing elephants I believe was said because he was a black African, had he been a white African I don't believe that would have been said.

This is at least one case of not only Adebayor but Gallas being racial abused as well.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/on-encountering-racism-at-white-hart-lane.96236/

The fact that Keano was a beloved icon would be an explantion to why he was given allowance but do you not find it odd that these same people can't find it in the heart to forgive Ghaly after he didn't play for nearly 2 years and subjected him to over the top abuse?

Do you not find it reasonable for me to speculate that the reason he got that treatment was to do with being Egyptian and/or muslim and that there was an element who used his shirt being thrown down as an excuse to hound him out of the club?

Again I don't discount your experiences but I have to disagree that it's the odd indivial that is racist amongst thousands of supporters. We have our own hooligan gangs, Tottenham massive, tottenham casuals it's not really a stretch to suggest some of these muppets could be racist.

Fair enough

I can only say that personally I've never witnessed any overt racism at the club and I've taken my gf and black friends to games many times

Equally I hope there is no real racist element associated with our club bug I suppose it is a reflection of society and with a crowd of 36k and a rotation of around 70k or whatever there are bound to be a percentage of fans who are as moronic and small minded as the Chelsea fans but I firmly believe it would have to be far more isolated/individualised than clubs like Chelsea who seem to almost be an institution of racism within their core fan base

 

[Mullers]

Fair enough

I can only say that personally I've never witnessed any overt racism at the club and I've taken my gf and black friends to games many times

Equally I hope there is no real racist element associated with our club bug I suppose it is a reflection of society and with a crowd of 36k and a rotation of around 70k or whatever there are bound to be a percentage of fans who are as moronic and small minded as the Chelsea fans but I firmly believe it would have to be far more isolated/individualised than clubs like Chelsea who seem to almost be an institution of racism within their core fan base

Oh I definietly agree that we are not as bad as chelsea. I think Millwall is the worst of the lot, I met this guy who was boasting about his exploits as a Millwall hooligan that's not the strange part, the strange part he was mixed raced black father, white mother and brown in complexion.

I definietly agree that we are not as bad as chelsea. According to home office stats Chelsea have the highest number of arrests for racist and indecent chanting across 13 premier league seasons, the number of arrests stands at 27.

The number of people we've had arrested is 18 which is surprisingly higher than Liverpool, Everton and Newcastle.
http://metro.co.uk/2015/02/19/chels...-according-to-home-office-statistics-5069068/