The Y Word

[dontcallme]

An article in the Jewish Chronicle gave an estimate of a maximum of 5% of the crowd at Spurs being Jewish and that Arsenal have at least as many Jewish fans. The piece is an extract from "A People's History Of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club: How Spurs Fans Shaped the Identity of One of the World's Most Famous Clubs"

https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/features/how-tottenham-became-the-jewish-football-team-1.53784

Thanks.

 

[midoNdefoe]

Another question I have is if we have a larger Jewish following or connection than the likes of Arsenal. Genuinely wondering.

There is a large Jewish population in north London and I have to believe there is a fair amount of support for Arsenal. We are on the receiving end of anti-semitic songs and abuse and they're not.

So it can be argued that in modern time our usage of the term is not successful in fighting against anti-semitism.

I think that is an irrelevant argument though. It was never a tool to eradicate anti-semitism, but instead a defence mechanism to confront the abuse.
I don’t think anyone is under the illusion that chanting ‘Yid Army’ is going to stop wham and chelsea fans from being hideous. At the same time, I’m sure there are individual fans who have hurled the term in an abusive way and have learnt a lesson, which may well make them a bit more wary to shout it at us…

 

[dontcallme]

I think that is an irrelevant argument though. It was never a tool to eradicate anti-semitism, but instead a defence mechanism to confront the abuse.
I don’t think anyone is under the illusion that chanting ‘Yid Army’ is going to stop wham and chelsea fans from being hideous. At the same time, I’m sure there are individual fans who have hurled the term in an abusive way and have learnt a lesson, which may well make them a bit more wary to shout it at us…

I don’t see it as irrelevant at all.

If one club calls itself the Yids is on the receiving end of anti Semitic abuse and another in the same area with a similar number of Jewish fans doesn’t and then received no anti Semitic abuse then it is an extremely relevant point.

 

[Sloop]

I don’t see it as irrelevant at all.

If one club calls itself the Yids is on the receiving end of anti Semitic abuse and another in the same area with a similar number of Jewish fans doesn’t and then received no anti Semitic abuse then it is an extremely relevant point.

It does seem, though, that Spurs used to have a much higher proportion of Jewish supporters than Arsenal. According to that article, in 1935 it was reported in the press that as many as a third of the crowd at Spurs were Jewish. That probably lead to an enduring view of Spurs as "the" Jewish club amongst supporters of other clubs, that has not changed with the changing demographics. Although the numbers at Spurs and Arsenal may be similar now, that's not how it's perceived by opposition supporters - and probably not how it's perceived by many Spurs fans too.

That's not to say your argument is not relevant - I think it's just all made more complicated by the history of things.

 

[dontcallme]

It does seem, though, that Spurs used to have a much higher proportion of Jewish supporters than Arsenal. According to that article, in 1935 it was reported in the press that as many as a third of the crowd at Spurs were Jewish. That probably lead to an enduring view of Spurs as "the" Jewish club amongst supporters of other clubs, that has not changed with the changing demographics. Although the numbers at Spurs and Arsenal may be similar now, that's not how it's perceived by opposition supporters - and probably not how it's perceived by many Spurs fans too.

That's not to say your argument is not relevant - I think it's just all made more complicated by the history of things.

Good post. It's certainly a difficult subject. I don't think most people, Spurs fans or otherwise, see us as a Jewish club.

I think the history of our usage of the term should be celebrated as a genuine moment of people standing up to anti-Semitism.

But for me the number of Jewish people who are uncomfortable with us using it plus the fact we receive a higher amount of anti-Semitic abuse, partly due to this, in the present makes me think it is time for us to stop using it. But it is up to people to make the decision themselves.

 

[JW72]

I get the point your making and to a degree you're correct.
I'm just not sure that any of your examples are comparable to this situation.

Not comparable, no but in principle. Wasn’t a dig at all as I can see the very valid arguments on both sides.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Good post. It's certainly a difficult subject. I don't think most people, Spurs fans or otherwise, see us as a Jewish club.

I think the history of our usage of the term should be celebrated as a genuine moment of people standing up to anti-Semitism.

But for me the number of Jewish people who are uncomfortable with us using it plus the fact we receive a higher amount of anti-Semitic abuse, partly due to this, in the present makes me think it is time for us to stop using it. But it is up to people to make the decision themselves.

Think the reason imo to let it go is that we are a very diverse fanbase in every way, including that within the Jewish community. For me, the reason to let the term "Yid" go is not about perceived "offence". It's about inclusion as a whole fanbase of THFC.

 

[Spurs_1981]

Think the reason imo to let it go is that we are a very diverse fanbase in every way, including that within the Jewish community. For me, the reason to let the term "Yid" go is not about perceived "offence". It's about inclusion as a whole fanbase of THFC.

I'm not necessarily advocating that us fans shouldn't stop using the terminology but to me I've always interpreted 'Yid army' to be exactly designed as a rallying call for inclucion to the whole fan-base of THFC.

'Yid army' to me is about standing together as one, you target one of us, you target all of us. It's a rallying cry in defiance of victimisation and abuse no matter race, creed, gender, sexuality or any other identifyer.

It's our 'I'm Spartacus'.

Maybe it's time to drop the use of Yid, maybe it now causes more harm than good but it's never something we should be made to feel ashamed of, we aren't the most sucessful team in history but I'll always be a 'Yid' and it's something we should be extremely proud to be.

 

[ohtottenham!]

'Yid army' to me is about standing together as one, you target one of us, you target all of us. It's a rallying cry in defiance of victimisation and abuse no matter race, creed, gender, sexuality or any other identifyer.

I don't think it is anymore despite what it was in the past. It isn't actually expressing diversity to my mind anymore. I can despise discrimination including antisemtism, but I also have no time for religion as an example of my personal discomfort/conflict.

I'm also very aware of the political/nation state implications that go along with it too. It's there...implicit, and explicit with flags or otherwise. Another example of the same personal discomfort/conflict.

Basically, there's too much messiness involved in too many areas which should have little to do with supporting a football club.

 

[Spurs_1981]

I don't think it is anymore despite what it was in the past. It isn't actually expressing diversity to my mind anymore. I can despise discrimination including antisemtism, but I also have no time for religion as an example of my personal discomfort/conflict.

I'm also very aware of the political/nation state implications that go along with it too. It's there...implicit, and explicit with flags or otherwise. Another example of the same personal discomfort/conflict.

Basically, there's too much messiness involved in too many areas which should have little to do with supporting a football club.

It's an interesting perspective that I certainly wouldn't dismiss. I can only really express my feelings towards it as it certainly isn't and hasn't ever been a codified set of rules and beliefs. Whenever you're dealing with such a large group of people it would be naive for me to suggest my interpretation was shared.

Thanks for taking the time put your point across.

 

[slartibartfast]

Personally I'm not upset if we stop singing it. Couldn't give a shit if we carry on singing it.
Far more important things to worry about in the world imo.
You'll always find someone to be offended about something, sometimes on behalf of others.
Just meh for me.
Probably offended so.eone then lol.
Fuck you xx

 

[FeilSpurs]

not sure if it’s a joke, and not much to do with the Y word. But didn’t feel like creating
a new thread on all the ways people trying to cancel our mighty club..

just weird ??‍

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Over the past fortnight we've had quite a few people request removal of the word 'yid' from their user names.

Actually just looked into this, thinking it may be respectful/considerate towards others if I removed the Yid from the end of my username.

If I do, I lose access to the site (will not be able to login) until March 23rd.

Can't see people wanting to remove the word from their username if they're not going to be able to login & carry on enjoying being part of SC for a month?

 

[hughy]

not sure if it’s a joke, and not much to do with the Y word. But didn’t feel like creating
a new thread on all the ways people trying to cancel our mighty club..

just weird ??‍

I didn't realise David Baddiel was an animal rights activist...

 

[McFlash]

Actually just looked into this, thinking it may be respectful/considerate towards others if I removed the Yid from the end of my username.

If I do, I lose access to the site (will not be able to login) until March 23rd.

Can't see people wanting to remove the word from their username if they're not going to be able to login & carry on enjoying being part of SC for a month?

Do it, do it, do it, do it!

??


P. S. Love you, you big ****!

 

[FeilSpurs]

I didn't realise David Baddiel was an animal rights activist...

If he isn’t, I’t Wouldn’t surprise me if this made him become one ?

 

[Bosher]

not sure if it’s a joke, and not much to do with the Y word. But didn’t feel like creating
a new thread on all the ways people trying to cancel our mighty club..

just weird ??‍

PETA will go after anything animal related to take the attention off their shady practices. Not gonna go into it here and derail the thread, but a quick search of their funding, methods and euthanasia record is a real eye opener. An "animal charity" that believes a dog is better off dead than being a pet, tells you all you really need to know about them.

 

[Bosher]

Actually just looked into this, thinking it may be respectful/considerate towards others if I removed the Yid from the end of my username.

If I do, I lose access to the site (will not be able to login) until March 23rd.

Can't see people wanting to remove the word from their username if they're not going to be able to login & carry on enjoying being part of SC for a month?

Is that March 23rd not just the date you will next be able to change your name again? I changed mine last week and says March 14th for me, but I'm able to log in and post.

 

[dontcallme]

not sure if it’s a joke, and not much to do with the Y word. But didn’t feel like creating
a new thread on all the ways people trying to cancel our mighty club..

just weird ??‍

In another thread this was discussed. Basically PETA create these attention seeking headlines. They don’t really mean it but it gets them new members and views on their site.

Best left ignored and no, cancel culture is not taking over the world.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Is that March 23rd not just the date you will next be able to change your name again? I changed mine last week and says March 14th for me, but I'm able to log in and post.

You're absolutely correct. I did indeed misread the notification. Just went for another attempt and saw it actually said,

If you decide to change your username now you will not be able to again until Mar 23, 2022.

Apologies to @Archibald&Crooks , and thank you for pointing that out to me.