The Weekend ITK Discussion Thread 19/20 July 2014

[thinktank]

vorm's not going to displace lloris so no. lloris knows he's #1 and vorm knows he's #2. at this point vorm is swansea's 3rd choice so how anyone expects him to compete as our 1st choice is a little strange.

Ok, so who would you expect to come in "on a free" - that a club has allowed to run down his contract without cashing in, or which no other club has come in for - and challenge lloris for #1 spot?

 

[Good Doctor M]

i'd scale through the list of free agent keepers and pick the best one. that or find the best young keeper we can with the view of him taking over from hugo when we decide to let him go. i think it's bad business to spend money on guaranteed backups, all players should be striving to be first choice, it promotes healthy competition within the squad.

Although I can see your point. If we were to take such an approach to buying players as you suggest, we would be doing exactly the opposite of what our rivals are doing. Look at the teams around us. They're not afraid spend money on backups. It may seem like money could be better spent elsewhere, but when the teams that we're going to be fighting it out against, have a policy of throwing money at positions, even when they're only backup, we can't afford to be left behind. It's not how we'd all like the premier league to be, but the league's a monster, and if we simply need to get used to that fact. It's eat or be eaten.

5m for Vorm as not only a good backup, but a great backup, may not seem like money well spent when we appear to have much more pressing concerns. But I take it as a positive that the club are serious enough about achieving success with Poch in charge, and if they are prepared to put money down, then so be it.

Free agent keepers are fine if you're not looking to do anything spectacular. But what if Lloris where to get injured early doors. It's hardly inconceivable. Not only would we have a guy who could come in and do his bit, but could actively make a big difference. Vorm's a class act. I'm also much happier with the idea that he would be in the EL instead of Brad. It strengthens are EL squad and allows Lloris rest throughout the season. Vorm's signing could also be an indicator that winning the EL is a priority this year - with CL up for grabs. His signing, at 5m doesn't seem like such a rip off, if you ask me.

 

[CrankyPants90]

i'd scale through the list of free agent keepers and pick the best one. that or find the best young keeper we can with the view of him taking over from hugo when we decide to let him go. i think it's bad business to spend money on guaranteed backups, all players should be striving to be first choice, it promotes healthy competition within the squad.

Sure, but you are talking of a backup to Hugo Lloris, one of the best sweeper keepers out there, would the defence not feel the gap in quality? Would it not be adding to the frailty of the defence that is ever existent in our squad if we had someone who does not cover the grass nearly as much as Lloris does, or does not command the defence in the same way Lloris does?

One of the rare areas where Spurs are blessed is the GK division(first team), would the team not want someone at least half as competent as Lloris, or would it be fine to have some freebie? Or is it that you just do not rate Vorm?

 

[CornerPinDreamer]

just fyi there is already a 'how much should a backup goalkeeper cost' thread ... next to the 'i am always right thread' thread








not really

 

[Blake Griffin]

Although I can see your point. If we were to take such an approach to buying players as you suggest, we would be doing exactly the opposite of what our rivals are doing. Look at the teams around us. They're not afraid spend money on backups. It may seem like money could be better spent elsewhere, but when the teams that we're going to be fighting it out against, have a policy of throwing money at positions, even when they're only backup, we can't afford to be left behind. It's not how we'd all like the premier league to be, but the league's a monster, and if we simply need to get used to that fact. It's eat or be eaten.

5m for Vorm as not only a good backup, but a great backup, may not seem like money well spent when we appear to have much more pressing concerns. But I take it as a positive that the club are serious enough about achieving success with Poch in charge, and if they are prepared to put money down, then so be it.

Free agent keepers are fine if you're not looking to do anything spectacular. But what if Lloris where to get injured early doors. It's hardly inconceivable. Not only would we have a guy who could come in and do his bit, but could actively make a big difference. Vorm's a class act. I'm also much happier with the idea that he would be in the EL instead of Brad. It strengthens are EL squad and allows Lloris rest throughout the season. Vorm's signing could also be an indicator that winning the EL is a priority this year - with CL up for grabs. His signing, at 5m doesn't seem like such a rip off, if you ask me.

we have a squad full of backup quality players already with only a handful of actual genuine class 1st teamers, we need more of those to compete, not yet more backups. whether chelsea or man city or man utd can waste money on backups is irrelevant as they all have infinitely larger budgets than us.

 

[thinktank]

we have a squad full of backup quality players already with only a handful of actual genuine class 1st teamers, we need more of those to compete, not yet more backups. whether chelsea or man city or man utd can waste money on backups is irrelevant as they all have infinitely larger budgets than us.

It's over, blakey. Put down the gun.

 

[Blake Griffin]

i think spurs really lack a plan and any sense of direction at the moment. we need to be realistic and accept that there are five clubs with far bigger resources available to them, spending 5m here and there on backups isn't going to help us catch them, it's just a waste. whether we spend or not we're still going to finish 6th or 7th. we should either store up all of this cash and go nuts once the new stadium is done, the lowest we'll finish is 7th anyway or it should all be put into youngsters. i would quite happily see us drop 20m on john stones for instance, far more than dropping even a few million on vorm. we're just spending for the sake of it and at the end of the day we're only there to make up the numbers at the moment, we're not a legit threat to the big hitters in the current climate.

 

[mw828]

i think spurs really lack a plan and any sense of direction at the moment. we need to be realistic and accept that there are five clubs with far bigger resources available to them, spending 5m here and there on backups isn't going to help us catch them, it's just a waste. whether we spend or not we're still going to finish 6th or 7th. we should either store up all of this cash and go nuts once the new stadium is done, the lowest we'll finish is 7th anyway or it should all be put into youngsters. i would quite happily see us drop 20m on john stones for instance, far more than dropping even a few million on vorm. we're just spending for the sake of it and at the end of the ay we're only there to make up the numbers at the moment, we're not a legit threat to the big hitters in the current climate.

hey buddy, i'd like to sincerely thank you for the 40 posts saying the exact same thing. let's all agree to disagree. you look at everything in a first XI quality vacuum. that isn't the real world. this isn't fifa 14 on your console of choice. signing a good backup keeper mitigates the not insignificant risk of having to play a low quality keeper when your first choice keeper gets injured. it happens all of the time, these guys aren't invincible. you can increase your total points equity on the season in ways other than improving your first XI. good squad depth will decrease variance and slightly improve our overall expectation and that has value.

 

[CrankyPants90]

i think spurs really lack a plan and any sense of direction at the moment. we need to be realistic and accept that there are five clubs with far bigger resources available to them, spending 5m here and there on backups isn't going to help us catch them, it's just a waste. whether we spend or not we're still going to finish 6th or 7th. we should either store up all of this cash and go nuts once the new stadium is done, the lowest we'll finish is 7th anyway or it should all be put into youngsters. i would quite happily see us drop 20m on john stones for instance, far more than dropping even a few million on vorm. we're just spending for the sake of it and at the end of the day we're only there to make up the numbers at the moment, we're not a legit threat to the big hitters in the current climate.

But this would soften the blow when Lloris says he has had enough and wants to leave, we would have a readymade replacement in Vorm who knows the tactics and philosophy of MoPo. Let us be realistic, it is just for guarding the value of the asset that is Lloris that he has signed a new contract. He would leave if we are not in CL position by the end of this year or max in two years. Then, with we do not have to go whoring for a new goalkeeper who is anywhere close to Lloris and lose the money in hand.

Foresight is useful, no?

 

[indianspurs]

i think spurs really lack a plan and any sense of direction at the moment. we need to be realistic and accept that there are five clubs with far bigger resources available to them, spending 5m here and there on backups isn't going to help us catch them, it's just a waste. whether we spend or not we're still going to finish 6th or 7th. we should either store up all of this cash and go nuts once the new stadium is done, the lowest we'll finish is 7th anyway or it should all be put into youngsters. i would quite happily see us drop 20m on john stones for instance, far more than dropping even a few million on vorm. we're just spending for the sake of it and at the end of the day we're only there to make up the numbers at the moment, we're not a legit threat to the big hitters in the current climate.

Don't think anyone expects us to win the league but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. About money I don't think we are over spending at all, most seasons we end up with net profits. Overall we are doing fine, just my opinion though.

 

[thinktank]

@GIF

Delete that, dude. I can guarantee Archie is charging up his mega-boy vibrator as I type this.

 

[wpd659]

GIF

I would remove that before A&C comes back! Otherwise you might have a big problem inserted by him lol
And maybe read the rules of the thread

 

[Blake Griffin]

But this would soften the blow when Lloris says he has had enough and wants to leave, we would have a readymade replacement in Vorm who knows the tactics and philosophy of MoPo. Let us be realistic, it is just for guarding the value of the asset that is Lloris that he has signed a new contract. He would leave if we are not in CL this year possibly or max in two years. Then, with we do not have to go whoring for a new goalkeeper who is anywhere close to Lloris and lose the money in hand.

Foresight is useful, no?

that's fine but if lloris leaves next summer i'm pretty sure we'll go out and find a replacement whilst vorm stays as #2.

 

[wpd659]

Delete that, dude. I can guarantee Archie is charging up his mega-boy vibrator.

Quoting the Gif could lead him to using it twice!!!! Run!!!!!! Before he notices

 

[CrankyPants90]

Got to admit it, @Blake Griffin, you have the conviction of a lunatic. You don't ever back down. Good on you, quite a character. That is me hanging on to my sanity and saying I disagree with you, bowing out of this debate. .

 

[thinktank]

hey buddy, i'd like to sincerely thank you for the 40 posts saying the exact same thing. let's all agree to disagree. you look at everything in a first XI quality vacuum. that isn't the real world. this isn't fifa 14 on your console of choice. signing a good backup keeper mitigates the not insignificant risk of having to play a low quality keeper when your first choice keeper gets injured. it happens all of the time, these guys aren't invincible. you can increase your total points equity on the season in ways other than improving your first XI. good squad depth will decrease variance and slightly improve our overall expectation and that has value.

Shift button broken, rgiht? I know.

Like the style and content though, good post.

 

[Shanks]

I quite like GF's ITK.

Not about Ben Davies, but the bit about lowering expectations.

This excites me more than anything, purely because we make it a realistic expectation, with a view to improving, there is less pressure.

What do I personally expect us to do this year, whilst top four would be amazing, it's seriously overachieving, especially when you look at the top teams strengthening further.

Top 6 I'm afraid is me being realistic, and I'd love a cup run.. like to the final. I'd be happy with that this year, over the moon if we over achieved on that too.

 

[thinktank]

Got to admit it, @Blake Griffin, you have the conviction of a lunatic. You don't ever back down. Good on you, quite a character. That is me hanging on to my sanity and saying I disagree with you, bowing out of this debate. .

Not quite sure that's such a good thing in Blakey's case tbh.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Its not my money, but I don't think £5M on Vorm is wasted. We don't really know any details other than that an enquiry was made, and perhaps the quoted price was ~ £5M. It could be that the actual sales price, if there ever is one, is closer to £2M up front, and add-ons that only get reached if Vorm plays in a certain number of game - enough that would justify the higher price.

I do think back-up keeper, is a position of need for us - particularly if we will be playing the high-line, and need a keeper who is quick off his line. Friedel looks like he brings a load of experience, and can act as a 2nd goalkeeping coach - but if we were to need him to play for an extended period of time due to injury, I think that would have a very negative impact on the squad. Spurs may be scaling back from top-4 expectations, but I think everyone on the squad will be disappointed with anything less than top-6.

 

[El_Duderino]

The gif, although illegal was necessary as it held an important message.

Y'all need Jesus.