The silent backlash continues...

[Spurger King]

The point I've made before though is that boring football is not something Tottenham have an exclusive patent on.

If you're playing an equally boring team (and pick any of them quite honestly) that is intent only on getting a single point out of the game then not very surprisingly it will be a boring game. Who in the PL plays "exciting" football week in and week out? I hate to say this but possibly the Chavs and sometimes Man City and that's it. Are L'Arse exciting? Liverpool? Stoke, Sunderland?

I have no way of knowing (and I can't really be bothered to find out) if fans on sites like KUMB or RedandWhiteKop are whining and complaining because it is perceived that the style of football they play is boring, but I might be willing to bet they're not. Also, If Redknapp and Jol produced such exciting football at WHL then how come they're not managing some top flight team now and producing the same style of football? Probably because they were both completely shit at the last clubs they respectively managed.

Tottenham fans have been accused many times of being deluded or having unrealistic high expectations based on their history, and quite honestly that is how these complaints come over. "We're not exciting enough" "We should play the best football imaginable" "We're so boring, even more than Stoke or Villa", it's just complaining for the sake of complaining quite honestly. This is how the game is in this country now and maybe we just need to accept that its unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

It's not "complaining for the sake of complaining". At worst it comes down to different definitions of what is 'entertaining'.

I accept that some fans are entertained by seeing us competing to be the best of the rest, and are entertained by European football and the prospect of an amazing new stadium. I can even just about accept that some fans find the idea of our club being run super-efficiently to be a form of entertainment.

But there are many Spurs fans who simply don't find the football itself to be entertaining. Your comments about other teams just makes me think football in general is becoming too dull and safe. You only have to look at Argentina v Iran in the last world cup to see how a negative and poor quality team can purposefully suck the life out of a match by being well drilled. Saying it's unlikely to change in the foreseeable future is probably accurate, and a little sad. As I said, it comes down to what you think is entertainment. If the football isn't entertaining (and it doesn't have to be free-flowing to tick that box...I can be entertained by highly efficient but clinically executed football as well), there's little else, personally speaking, to write home about.

As for Jol and Redknapp, I wasn't particularly commentating on their abilities as managers - I was making the point that dull football is not a prerequisite for finishing in the top 5.

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

I just found this from a Google search. It's from 2008 and incredibly appropriate to this thread:

 

[Spurger King]

First off, Tottenham have been on television here, consistently, since 2001-02 (my first season watching us). Even back then, Fox Soccer Channel had pretty much every game- just on delay. I would find out when we were on and watch the game as if it were live. It was easy- the internet was in its' infancy and no one cared about English soccer so there was no way on earth I'd find out if we beat, say, Portsmouth unless I checked.

Secondly, I didn't mean to imply that I have never missed a Spurs game ever. What I was/am referring to are Spurs Prem games-- and of those, I have seen probably 95% of them in fifteen years (in the last decade that figure would be closer to 99%, and in the last 7 years- 100%).

Thirdly, my point also was that when we were/are on, I never missed a minute of any match. So in other words- historically, if I'm watching us, I'm fucking glued to the set like a crazed zombie. I never take my eyes off the box. I soak in everything...

Until AVB. Once they fired my eternally beloved Harry and replaced him with the smarmy, sweaty little ginger technocrat- and at the same time dumped- at the elfin genius' behest- my favorite-ever Spurs player- my interest began to wane. I still watched, but Tottenham's grip on my psyche has loosened. Into the ginger genius' second season I truly began not to care, and then last season I stopped giving a shit even more. I loved watching us back in the Keane/Kanoute/Mido years--- now, I am strangely apathetic.

Obviously I still love us- I'm on this fucking forum so much my wife wants to block it- so the addiction's still there. But it's lessening- and if this season is a repeat of last season I will get a life.

Fair enough. I didn't think streaming really took off until a few years ago, but it's entirely possible I wasn't looking very hard for it.

Can't really disagree with the view that we've been largely tedious to watch since AVB took over. Ten minutes went by once before I realised my stream had frozen.

 

[TwanYid]

West Ham aren't in the Europa league, in fact, they never were. The Europa league starts with the group stage and the knockout stages features some very good teams and the possibility to qualify for the champions league. There is a big difference between what Spurs and West Ham try and achieve with regards to the EL.

"It's almost hard not to be in it" - How can you expect to be taken seriously with statements like this? I don't care what anyone says, we spent enough years in the 90s and early 00's doing fuck all in terms of European competition for me not to care about the Europa league. I want us to win the EL just as much as I wanted us to win the UEFA cup a few years back; these are the nights we should live for as a football club. Whatever happens domestically, there is nothing that tops a great European night at the Lane or away trip with thousands of other Spurs fans proving ourselves against some of the top European clubs. Realistically we cannot compete with City, Utd, Arsenal or Chelsea on the spending front and anyone that thinks that top 4 is still our aim needs to open their eyes. With the current FFP it's not about having rich owners anymore, it's about generating the income to be able to spend within your means.

I wish more fans would stop thinking we're above the Europa League.

I'm not against the Europa League. I'm glad we're in it. But given where we are both financially (6th biggest club in England) and geographically (London club- big-city draw/prime location) it would be hard these days to finish out of the Europa League places. Realistically, we're odds-on to finish top 6/7, which is normally good enough for the EL. I don't know why that notion is so upsetting to you- so utterly unbelievable. I am saying that it would be surprising if, over the course of 38 games, we finished out of a Europa League spot. Unheard of? No, not unheard of, nor impossible, but unlikely. Hence the comment "It's almost hard not to be in it." I say that because these days we are always in it. We have a lot of resources and financial clout. We can field a top-6 team without much difficulty. I don't know what part of that is so preposterous that the mere mention of it renders anything else I say "unable to be taken seriously." These days we are firmly in the Europa League mix- always. It would be shocking if we weren't.

And honestly, if I could watch us play exciting, daring football for a season and finish 8th rather than endure what's been served up for the past three years (despite the fact that we've stayed "in Europe" during that time) I'd take it. I can't deal with another season of stultifying soccer. I'm sorry.

Even if that means God forbid we miss out on Europe.

Also, West Ham are playing qualifying games in the Europa League. That makes them "in Europe." Unless this is wrong: http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2016/accesslist/listofparticipants/index.html

It says "West Ham"- perhaps there's another West Ham? My God, how awful that would be...let's just hope you were misinformed...

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

What a fantastic article. Will buy the book

I just looked this book up an Amazon.com, here's what I found:

$343.28
+ $3.99 shipping
+ $0.00 estimated tax

Used - Good
This Book is in Good Condition. Clean Copy With Light Amount of Wear. 100% Guaranteed.

Three Hundred and Forty Three dollars???? Fuck me. Anyone got a dog eared paperback copy they'd like to pass on to me?

 

[ralphs bald spot]

What fascinates me in going to football is that the crowd at Tottenham seems to me to be quite old, I would guess an average age easily exceeding 30 and perhaps pushing forty and lots of us are habitual goers been going for years and speaking for myself its probably my weekly entertainment. I think as you get older football begins to lose some of its appeal, its so dominated by money now the league title can almost be worked out on a financial spreadsheet people would argue that's always been the case though before the outset of the Premier League Villa and Forest both won the European Cup Wimbledon rose through the division as did Watford and the likes of Ipswich were a well run entertaining top team. None of that would be possible today.

Generally football is moving more and more quickly towards a European Super League and as a supporter of what I still consider to be a huge club its hard to see how we can cling to the coat tails and be competitive with the likes of Barca and Bayern.

Entertainment wise we have gone from 5 forwards to one and fewer goals per game it doesn't take a genius to work out why and now its apparently tactical madness to play to up front though Liverpool almost won the League when playing with a two man forward line and a progressive winger- we now have virtually non contact football how long before the sliding tackle is outlawed then maybe heading? - then when we do have a foul you have commentators congratulating the player on a what they consider to be an excellent foul as its stops the flow of an attacking move!!. Managers and Directors are so scared of failure that you see a side like Brentford make 11 changes for a League cup tie and West Ham virtually give up on Europe by playing their reserves because it might affect their League position when the best they can possibly do is qualify for that competition again.

Back to Spurs though, the entertainment I can see that since Redknapp was cast aside the football has been at best in and out and dam right negative under AVB generally though I feel Poch is better but I would like to see a bit more flair personally. What concerns me and few others I talk to is that the shiny new stadium is on its way - we don't know where we are going to be playing it seems cut between 3 or 4 options though with 2 clear favourites the soulless Wembley or the remote MK . As season ticket holders we are told that we can have a years sabbatical the trouble is once you have done that you begin to lose the habit especially when you can sit on the internet or pop down the local pub and watch a game free, then a year later you have to tell the missus we have to miss that holiday because I am laying out a grand for a season ticket. I think the truth is that Spurs like all clubs don't care about you whilst they can sell your ticket but I think that football will need to work out how they are going to replace the forty somethings who lose that habit

 

[Achap]

..............
Tottenham are starting to remind me of a girlfriend that's boring, safe, and average-looking; sure it's ok for a while, but eventually it gets old.

If you had such a girlfriend, surely the manly thing to do would be to simply move on – not sit around on a forum all day criticising her and complaining about her to her circle of friends.

 

[guiltyparty]

First off, Tottenham have been on television here, consistently, since 2001-02 (my first season watching us). Even back then, Fox Soccer Channel had pretty much every game- just on delay. I would find out when we were on and watch the game as if it were live. It was easy- the internet was in its' infancy and no one cared about English soccer so there was no way on earth I'd find out if we beat, say, Portsmouth unless I checked.

Secondly, I didn't mean to imply that I have never missed a Spurs game ever. What I was/am referring to are Spurs Prem games-- and of those, I have seen probably 95% of them in fifteen years (in the last decade that figure would be closer to 99%, and in the last 7 years- 100%).

Thirdly, my point also was that when we were/are on, I never missed a minute of any match. So in other words- historically, if I'm watching us, I'm fucking glued to the set like a crazed zombie. I never take my eyes off the box. I soak in everything...

Until AVB. Once they fired my eternally beloved Harry and replaced him with the smarmy, sweaty little ginger technocrat- and at the same time dumped- at the elfin genius' behest- my favorite-ever Spurs player- my interest began to wane. I still watched, but Tottenham's grip on my psyche has loosened. Into the ginger genius' second season I truly began not to care, and then last season I stopped giving a shit even more. I loved watching us back in the Keane/Kanoute/Mido years--- now, I am strangely apathetic.

Obviously I still love us- I'm on this fucking forum so much my wife wants to block it- so the addiction's still there. But it's lessening- and if this season is a repeat of last season I will get a life.

I still watch every Spurs game

My malaise is with football

I just looked this book up an Amazon.com, here's what I found:

$343.28
+ $3.99 shipping
+ $0.00 estimated tax

Used - Good
This Book is in Good Condition. Clean Copy With Light Amount of Wear. 100% Guaranteed.

Three Hundred and Forty Three dollars???? Fuck me. Anyone got a dog eared paperback copy they'd like to pass on to me?

12 quid http://bookshop.theguardian.com/and-the-sun-shines-now.html

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

12 quid http://bookshop.theguardian.com/and-the-sun-shines-now.html

Or not:
Availability: Not in stock. You can still order this title and we will do our best to source it for you, but can't guarantee availability.

Probably be $300 postage from there to here

I might invest in "Nearly Reach The Sky, A Farewell to Upton Park" though.
Or not (and that IS in fucking stock of course).


EDIT: And get a load of THIS on Amazon.com. Bwaa Haaa Haaa Haaaaa:

Nearly Reach the Sky: A Farwell to Upton Park Paperback February 6, 2015 Paperback – 1605
by Brian Williams (Author)

3 Used from $1,568.89
4 New from $1,568.89

 

[hellava_tough]

A lot of the problems are due to the money in the game.

If every player in the country was put back into the club that they came from, at academy level, it'd be really interesting to see what domestic football would be like.

 

[TwanYid]

If you had such a girlfriend, surely the manly thing to do would be to simply move on – not sit around on a forum all day criticising her and complaining about her to her circle of friends.

Well, since she used to be an absolutely stunning beauty, would it kill her to put a bit of fucking make-up on and maybe lose a few pounds?

 

[spursfan77]

It's ironic that this thread has cropped up the week before we play Stoke.

The scary thing is, is that they may well have a more exciting team than us this time.

 

[BuryMeInEngland]

Well, since she used to be an absolutely stunning beauty, would it kill her to put a bit of fucking make-up on and maybe lose a few pounds?

She's also aged 30-odd years since she was a stunning beauty. So.......

 

[TwanYid]

She's also aged 30-odd years since she was a stunning beauty. So.......

She was super hot only four years ago. Now, she's content to be a decent-looking girl who only gets dressed up and looks sexy like maybe three times a year. And the sad part is I stay with her because I have no other choice- I don't like any of the other birds (even the prettier ones).

Couldn't she at least try and excite me? I treat her well and am totally faithful- all I ask for is a bit of excitement now and again.

 

[guiltyparty]

Or not:
Availability: Not in stock. You can still order this title and we will do our best to source it for you, but can't guarantee availability.

Probably be $300 postage from there to here

I might invest in "Nearly Reach The Sky, A Farewell to Upton Park" though.
Or not (and that IS in fucking stock of course).


EDIT: And get a load of THIS on Amazon.com. Bwaa Haaa Haaa Haaaaa:

Nearly Reach the Sky: A Farwell to Upton Park Paperback February 6, 2015 Paperback – 1605
by Brian Williams (Author)

3 Used from $1,568.89
4 New from $1,568.89

I bought it. Maybe it was the last one

 

[Maske2g]

What fascinates me in going to football is that the crowd at Tottenham seems to me to be quite old, I would guess an average age easily exceeding 30 and perhaps pushing forty

Old? 30?!? This isnt 1916. You know penicillin was invented right?!?!

I do agree with your point in though. tastes change. I want to sit in the upper tier and enjoy the game, not get pissed and sig the same hymms every week like when I was 17-18. It does detract from atmosphere. A singing stand is a good idea.

 

[xtrac]

It's interesting to note that the football has been poor since the introduction of the 4-2-3-1 formation by AVB and still used today with the occasional 4-3-3 setup!

Although not fashionable I would prefer to see proper wingers flying down the wings with quality crosses coming in from both sides, high tempo, electric counter attacks, players with creativity etc

What has happened to Spurs, why did we change the way we play, what was so wrong with 4-4-1-1 why didnt we just employ a manager to carry on that style of play who could tighten the defence??

We have gone through countless players and 2 managers now, trying to implement a boring system, thats more defensive minded, manu under AF played a variation of 4-4-2 and was very successful, man city also play similar way!


and also which i find even more infuriating is we employ a manager to manage a team, if he is as good as the millions of pounds hes being paid, why the fuck is he changing an entire team, and philosophy of the very foundation the team was built on and successful, the player turnaround since AVB has been ridiculous, what happened to managing players and moulding them into a team, and what happens when Poch moves on, do we turn to a totally different type of manager again, or one with the same philosophy as Poch??

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Old? 30?!? This isnt 1916. You know penicillin was invented right?!?!

I do agree with your point in though. tastes change. I want to sit in the upper tier and enjoy the game, not get pissed and sig the same hymms every week like when I was 17-18. It does detract from atmosphere. A singing stand is a good idea.

Your right I was being conservative ( wash my mouth out that's something I would hate to be considered) I see that the average age for a season ticket holder in the premier ship is in fact 41 my guess and its purely a visual thing is that Spurs is higher than that. Otherwise the point is the same

 

[Achap]

It's interesting to note that the football has been poor since the introduction of the 4-2-3-1 formation by AVB and still used today with the occasional 4-3-3 setup!

Although not fashionable I would prefer to see proper wingers flying down the wings with quality crosses coming in from both sides, high tempo, electric counter attacks, players with creativity etc

What has happened to Spurs, why did we change the way we play, what was so wrong with 4-4-1-1 why didnt we just employ a manager to carry on that style of play who could tighten the defence??

We have gone through countless players and 2 managers now, trying to implement a boring system, thats more defensive minded, manu under AF played a variation of 4-4-2 and was very successful, man city also play similar way!


and also which i find even more infuriating is we employ a manager to manage a team, if he is as good as the millions of pounds hes being paid, why the fuck is he changing an entire team, and philosophy of the very foundation the team was built on and successful, the player turnaround since AVB has been ridiculous, what happened to managing players and moulding them into a team, and what happens when Poch moves on, do we turn to a totally different type of manager again, or one with the same philosophy as Poch??

It really isn't just recent Spurs managers that have adopted 4-2-3-1, it's the way of much of the world. Since you mention SAF, here's quite an old, but possibly interesting, article on the subject - referencing SAF:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2008/dec/18/4231-442-tactics-jonathan-wilson

'4-2-3-1's transfer to England – at least in terms of a recognition of it as something distinct from 4-4-2 – came with Manchester United as an emphatic 3-2 home defeat by Real Madrid in the Champions League in 1999-2000 convinced Sir Alex Ferguson that the more orthodox 4-4-2 he had employed to win the treble the previous season had had its day in European competition (although he maintains, with some justification, that he has never played 4-4-2, but has always used split forwards)'.

 

[mattie g]

I like Spurs.