The realism of a full rebuild

[Ghost Hardware]

Imagine if he’d have listened to Poch after the CL final…

It’s a real shame that Levy didn’t value him enough to believe him when he said it.

 

[Archibald-CPH]

So when we have rebuilded in summer of 2023, Kane will be 30 and Son 31... So it starts again

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Why should we be confident that we’ll get it right in the summer? For years we’ve generally adopted the same approach in the transfer market: buy a mixed bag of players, most of whom are second or third choices and wind up as flops.

There might be one or two who work out (if we’re lucky) but the one thing you can be certain of is this: the window will close and at best the verdict will be ‘that was ok but slightly disappointing’. We always fail to push the boat out and bring in that one extra player of established quality who could be the difference maker. This year’s Dybala, Skriniar, Diaz, whoever. We all know the story. We will be in talks to land a big fish and fall short. It happens every time.

 

[mpickard2087]

Kicking myself now that I didn't make the post I was going to in the week, because it looks knee-jerk post-game now, but someone like Lloris is an acid test for how "painful" a rebuild the club and fans have in mind and will tolerate.

He's been fairly solid in the last 12-18 months, after a couple of dip years, definitely. Is he on paper or performance one of the obvious problems? You wouldn't say so. It's also understandable that as a player enters the autumn of their career their game has changed and they don't play with the same characteristics as their younger selves.... But I'd invite people to go back and watch his early performances for us from nigh on a decade ago, you see how much he's aged now. Ultra athletic, ultra quick, ultra reflexes, got a lot more presence and commanding, extremely daring with his sweeping up. If you compare it to now you notice the difference.

My point is that if you're saying you're in a rebuild and transitioning as a team, does it make sense to sign up yet again a declining force? Yeah finding a replacement will be difficult (it will be at any stage), yeah he's still "solid" in his work overall, but at what point do people consider you bite the bullet?

Think I'm bonkers or neg rep me if you want but the way I see it, if any organisation - not just a football team - makes the decision they need a "rebuild" and see substantial change - whether that's any or all of a change of performance, values, culture, behaviour, etc - you've got to get to the heart of the issue and lop the head off the beast. Harshly or not when it comes to Spurs, in my opinion it's no good if you just advocate tinkering my changing those players you consider crap or the obvious dud signings/performers, to really make impactful change you very often have to strike at the heart of the operation and that means seriously considering breaking up the very senior players who are established at the centre - Lloris, Kane, Son, etc - in order to get a new dawn and go off in a different direction.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

Why should we be confident that we’ll get it right in the summer? For years we’ve generally adopted the same approach in the transfer market: buy a mixed bag of players, most of whom are second or third choices and wind up as flops.

There might be one or two who work out (if we’re lucky) but the one thing you can be certain of is this: the window will close and at best the verdict will be ‘that was ok but slightly disappointing’. We always fail to push the boat out and bring in that one extra player of established quality who could be the difference maker. This year’s Dybala, Skriniar, Diaz, whoever. We all know the story. We will be in talks to land a big fish and fall short. It happens every time.

I’ve got no confidence we’ll get it right. I think we’ll do what we always do, start the window with the usual positive platitudes, claim we’re confident in our targeting of very good players before they get signed elsewhere. I strongly suspect we’ll sign a bit more mediocrity, maybe a player with potential and a crowd placater like Bale. We’ll trundle through next season somewhere in the top 8 before Conte and Paratici bow out by the summer of 2023. Then it’ll be a rinse and repeat cycle until some oil or slave nation buys the club

 

[Trix]

This in-the-know idea that we were better off waiting to make signings, ignored the fact we were in an usual position where the Champions League was in our grasp, when we were desperate for more quality in key positions. Anyone who knows a little about football could see that.

Alas, it’s just more of the same from the club management and I think most of us don’t buy it.

Believe it or don't believe it, doesn't really matter.

This thread is no doubt going to get busy at full time but nothing has changed. Our weakness's today were our weakness's last week and they'll be our weakness's until the end of the season.

There is no question we need to strengthen at CB, RWB, CM and another forward. We all know it and Conte knows it, it's why those positions are being targeted, and we couldn't get who we wanted until then. Until then it is what it is.

Again it's always been about being ready for next season.

Why should we be confident that we’ll get it right in the summer? For years we’ve generally adopted the same approach in the transfer market: buy a mixed bag of players, most of whom are second or third choices and wind up as flops.

There might be one or two who work out (if we’re lucky) but the one thing you can be certain of is this: the window will close and at best the verdict will be ‘that was ok but slightly disappointing’. We always fail to push the boat out and bring in that one extra player of established quality who could be the difference maker. This year’s Dybala, Skriniar, Diaz, whoever. We all know the story. We will be in talks to land a big fish and fall short. It happens every time.

What will happen will happen regardless of whether you believe it or not. Just remember this is what the club are saying from an itk pov. It's what the journalists like Gold have been told since I first posted it, and it's what Conte is saying in every press conference. How you want to process all that information is up to you, but you can't change anything and what happens will happen whatever you believe.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Why should we be confident that we’ll get it right in the summer? For years we’ve generally adopted the same approach in the transfer market: buy a mixed bag of players, most of whom are second or third choices and wind up as flops.

There might be one or two who work out (if we’re lucky) but the one thing you can be certain of is this: the window will close and at best the verdict will be ‘that was ok but slightly disappointing’. We always fail to push the boat out and bring in that one extra player of established quality who could be the difference maker. This year’s Dybala, Skriniar, Diaz, whoever. We all know the story. We will be in talks to land a big fish and fall short. It happens every time.

In order to get Dybala and Kessie (both of which we are supposedly interested in) if we don’t get top 4 we would need to pay them very handsomely indeed. That’s not going to happen so it’s not really surprising that we are already hearing noise about the likes of Bale and Eriksen.

Ether way, looking at the team today, it’s going to take a good 7/8 players before we have a team that’s good enough. And like you say, we will have to gamble on some because even with Conte I don’t see us being able to entice established players at the required level. Paratici has a monumental task ahead of him and he/we can’t afford anymore Royals.

 

[Rout-Ledge]

IWhat will happen will happen regardless of whether you believe it or not. Just remember this is what the club are saying from an itk pov. It's what the journalists like Gold have been told since I first posted it, and it's what Conte is saying in every press conference. How you want to process all that information is up to you, but you can't change anything and what happens will happen whatever you believe.

I’m not doubting the club’s intentions, I’m doubting the likelihood of a very old leopard changing it’s spots.

 

[tiger666]

We need 4-5 players of like a 40million quality level.

That means nothing. Sanchez was £40 million.

 

[Trix]

I’m not doubting the club’s intentions, I’m doubting the likelihood of a very old leopard changing it’s spots.

Fair point letting players like Dele go, plus our two biggest ever signings in one window is something Levy does all the time just because the manager says we have to.

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

The biggest problem - conte won’t be hanging around for a rebuild that will require 2-3 seasons at this rate. He talks of wining the title, but he and we all know that won’t happen with this ownership in charge. Light years away from winning a league cup never mind a league title. He’ll walk and restore his reputation at a winning club sooner than later.

 

[mil1lion]

I just can't see ENIC paying what we need in the summer. It's time for a takeover me thinks. We're at a crossroads now. Either caugh up in the summer or fall back to being mid table again. I get the plan for a rebuild but we're not doing that without spending big. We can pick up the odd bargain but we still need more Romero type signings on top. The times of achievement with little spend is over now.

 

[Marty]

That means nothing. Sanchez was £40 million.

People need to stop throwing sums around like that. The right player could cost us £20m, could cost us £40m, could be a free transfer. The only thing that matters is if it's the right player.

That's where our scouting has failed abysmally since about 2016.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

There’s gonna be a lot of clubs offering. These free transfer a lot of money. Newcastle are now gonna be a problem too

 

[Trix]

Anyway I'm not going to keep doing this after every defeat. It is what it is.

Perhaps it's best this thread is locked if it's just going to be one a clone of the Enic, and Levy threads. The "patience" that Conte has asked for and that so many agreed with from the OP disapears after every bad result anyway.

"Yeah we know we need to be patient, but not when we lose".

 

[jurgen]

In order to get Dybala and Kessie (both of which we are supposedly interested in) if we don’t get top 4 we would need to pay them very handsomely indeed. That’s not going to happen so it’s not really surprising that we are already hearing noise about the likes of Bale and Eriksen.

Ether way, looking at the team today, it’s going to take a good 7/8 players before we have a team that’s good enough. And like you say, we will have to gamble on some because even with Conte I don’t see us being able to entice established players at the required level. Paratici has a monumental task ahead of him and he/we can’t afford anymore Royals.

We're a rich club with a very low wage to turnover compared to all our 'rivals', and that was before we shipped out 400k p/w of wages this winter - although some of them will be back (hopefully not for long).

In theory we should be able to go big in the free transfer market. In practice, we will find out I guess...

 

[Veuve Clicquot]

Top 4 was there for the taking, but we want to be patient and get free transfers in the summer.

The time to strike was now, being patient just gives time to Man Utd to sort themselves out and for Newcastle to build their inevitable powerhouse.

Agreed, and there seems to be a naive assumption that these 'quality' players we are targeting will automatically want to come to Spurs.

These 'free' transfers will still be hugely expensive because they will demand more in signing on fees/wages/agent fees to 'compensate' for the lack of transfer fee.

Do we really have confidence that Levy will adhere to those demands? And why would these players sign for Spurs if they can have their pick of Champions league clubs or clubs who will pay silly money like Newcastle?

 

[carpediem991]

Targeting next season all nice and well, still feel we have not done enough to get the best out of the team this season.
A loan or a contract until summer for an attacker who knows how to score should somewhere on this earth be available, even if not the highest reputation.
And I hope the thinking "ah well we target next season anyway" is not a feeling that is going into the mindset of our players because it gives them another set of excuses for being not focused enough in their daily work.

 

[Teddy Klinsmann]

Anyway I'm not going to keep doing this after every defeat. It is what it is.

Perhaps it's best this thread is locked if it's just going to be one a clone of the Enic, and Levy threads. The "patience" that Conte has asked for and that so many agreed with from the OP disapears after every bad result anyway.

"Yeah we know we need to be patient, but not when we lose".

Think most have had enough of continuous failure and false dawns. Patience in this ownership has disappeared.

 

[Trix]

@Archibald&Crooks @Rob or any other mods about to close this thread, it's now pointless. As is passing stuff on in the hope it'll make a difference.

I officially give up.