The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

They've not had the same issues though? Of injuries, contract rebellion and they invested heavily prior to those additions.

They are also both in the status of the game and financially a far bigger team than us so can invest far heavier than we can.

I'm sure if we were to compare Liverpools revenue, turnover, fan base numbers, wage bill and commercial partnerships with ours we'd see how they have more resources to take bigger risks with than us. They did break 2 world record transfers for players in their positions at the time (Alisson & Van Dijk) which is someone a club the size of Spurs can not an drew probably will not ever do. Comparing the two teams and how they can make moves compared to us for me is simply unfair and unrealistic. I think we do well to try and do what we do and the fact that over a 4 year period we are less than £50m away from the same incomings spent shows we are far from stingy). Yes they spent larger before this summer but they also only dropped about £1.8m on new signings this year so I'd say they went large and the risk paid off, we've gone somewhat large this year and it hasn't.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

Poch has definitely been sold short by Levy but what can the fans do to get rid of owners?

How has he been sold short by Levy?

 

[Danny1]

yes it’s levy’s fault

Good comeback, well structured and this has left me with no doubt of your exact understanding & reasoning behind blaming Levy. Also well done in responding to the points raised in my post.

By any chance, are you related to Pochettino?

 

[Mr Pink]

When we were at the crest of the wave, especially back in May, I saw very many people praising Levy to the hilt and giving him massive credit. I'm wondering if now, does the buck also stop with him. That's not to say I'm suggesting Pochettino isn't to blame, but do those same people hold short stuff culpable in the same way he was given credit? When it comes to the club in general, we are where we are due to a combination of factors of which he undoubtably one. Does the bucks stop with him too.

In this case, to put it simply, are there actually two bucks that have to stop somewhere

Yeah possibly A&C, and you're right many where giving him credit, including me.

And yes, it's most definitely a combination of factors, most of us can agree on that.

My position in all this is actually quite straight forward.

Even though there are a lot of variables in play it's impossible to quantify the extent of each and reach a solid conclusion based on such.

It's extremely subjective and spurious to start analysing what might, or what might not of happened behind the scenes.

What I'm doing is looking at what is quantifiable, and that's what happening on the pitch.

So, yes we know there are other factors in play, but IMHO, they shouldn't be hamstringing us to the extent we've seen on the pitch, not by a long shot.

The manager is at the top of the pyramid in terms of the playing staff and has to be held accountable for a lot of this.

We know Levys's MO, but that doesn't excuse how poor we've been for this amount of time.

 

[Kspur]

Good comeback, well structured and this has left me with no doubt of your exact understanding & reasoning behind blaming Levy. Also well done in responding to the points raised in my post.

By any chance, are you related to Pochettino?

I’m just not as long winded as you.

Poch has been continually undermined by levy in the transfer market.

You’re entrenched in your view and so am I. It all stems from underinvestment. Liverpool had a massive sale too so they’ve actually spent a tonne more.
Plus they pay much higher wages and have done for ages. This is a major factor in having hacked off most of our squad.

 

[dagraham]

When we were at the crest of the wave, especially back in May, I saw very many people praising Levy to the hilt and giving him massive credit. I'm wondering if now, does the buck also stop with him. That's not to say I'm suggesting Pochettino isn't to blame, but do those same people hold short stuff culpable in the same way he was given credit? When it comes to the club in general, we are where we are due to a combination of factors of which he undoubtably one. Does the bucks stop with him too.

In this case, to put it simply, are there actually two bucks that have to stop somewhere

Without doubt, it’s a failure of everybody at the club. Levy and Lewis for forgetting the short/medium term on the pitch is just as important as the long term infrastructure off it. Poch for the way he’s managed the squad over the last year and the players for going through the motions and not performing.

I personally think that we don’t set high enough standards at the club and failure is tolerated too easily. We don’t expect to win anything, therefore we don’t.

When we get in a good position we get the cigars out and start sucking each others dicks, rather than push on and invest from a position of strength. Everything with the squad is always reactive, rather than pro active.

Problem is I don’t even know what the solution is. Sacking the manager would be understandable considering the way we are playing, but ( and it’s a big but) it all depends on who we are going to get in to replace him. Sure we’d get a new manager bounce whoever we got, but another relatively inexperienced “project” manager is not imo going to cut it or convince the likes of Kane not to get on his bike. However, I don’t believe we’ll be able to get a top manager with winning pedigree with the way we operate.

Anyway, to channel the yankspurs spirit : Everybody out. Now.

 

[dondo]

Yes, but the point your still not grasping is that the buck has to stop with the manager.

All these players havnt just seen their ability fall of the face of a cliff.

Its so naive to think like that. As a group of players they're far more capable than languishing around 14th in the table.

I agree the buck does stop with the manager and Pochettino has been far from blameless but I would back him to rebuild the squad for next season.
Whoever is in charge next season will have a high turn over of players and I would prefer poch to be here rather than anyone else we can realistically get.
With the right players in January and the summer, next season we could see the spurs of 2/3 years ago that pressed the hell out of the opposition (something our players can no longer do imo) and had the best defence in the league and played exciting attacking football

 

[stevenurse]

Simple fact is that spurs in the CL is infinitely more attractive to sponsors, corporates etc, and ultimately to be sold, than a spurs finishing lower mid table. Levy isn't an idiot and will know this.

Unfortunately the time to pull the trigger has come and gone so the best thing (in his eyes) I'm sure will be to just get through to Jan and try and fix as best we can. CL and probably European football is 100% gone.

Such a shame that 5 years good work is pissed away in less than 3 months. Excellent achievement that chaps ??

 

[djee]

I suspect that the decision to fire Poch has been taken but they are struggling to decide on whom to replace him with. I also think that there is probably a very large queue of managers who would be desperate for the job. The issue for Levy, however, is that there is no obvious candidate that ticks all the boxes and the option of a caretaker for the remainder of the season is unpalatable for a myriad of reasons.

Alas, we find ourselves in limbo. Whilst DL can not settle on the next manager, it appears Poch is a lame duck after seemingly lost the backing / unable to motivate players and must be miserable.

 

[Danny1]

I’m just not as long winded as you.

Poch has been continually undermined by levy in the transfer market.

You’re entrenched in your view and so am I. It all stems from underinvestment. Liverpool had a massive sale too so they’ve actually spent a tonne more.
Plus they pay much higher wages and have done for ages. This is a major factor in having hacked off most of our squad.

Ok, fair enough. So lets put your business knowledge to the test. When you factor in the below, and reviewing the THFC accounts for the past 5 years, where do you suggest that the money comes from (bare in mind we are talking £132m difference in 5 years between us & Liverpool, equating to just over £25m a year):

1 - Liverpool have an incredibly higher worldwide reach than us. Their income from marketing dwarfs ours, significantly.
2 - Liverpool, over the past 5 years, dwarf us with regards to Sponsorship.
3 - THFC have built the best stadium in the world, and the best training complex in the world. Liverpool have not invested in their stadium.

So taking into account the ability for LFC to generate more money than us, due to their history and worldwide reach, and the fact that we have invested very very heavily in the infrastructure of the club, in actual fact, Levy has spent more overall than the Liverpool board.

Also, you say that I am entrenched in my view, however I stated that I do not believe Levy to be blameless. However, for you to completely ignore the football over the past year, the money spent this summer by Levy, the work that ENIC have done for us to ensure our future is up there with the very best, the loss of moral & rumblings of unhappiness with Poch, is mind boggling.

Let's flip it for example, so when things are bad its Levys fault, so when things were really good & we got to the final of the UCL, was this due to Levy & he was our hero? If not, then why is Poch completely faultless not matter how bad the team is playing? Very strange. & f*ck it continue being "long winded", we have heard time & time again that Poch had money to spend & didn't want to........not sure how that is "Poch continually being undermined"......would be good to see you back it up with anything at all.

 

[Kspur]

Ok, fair enough. So lets put your business knowledge to the test. When you factor in the below, and reviewing the THFC accounts for the past 5 years, where do you suggest that the money comes from (bare in mind we are talking £132m difference in 5 years between us & Liverpool, equating to just over £25m a year):

1 - Liverpool have an incredibly higher worldwide reach than us. Their income from marketing dwarfs ours, significantly.
2 - Liverpool, over the past 5 years, dwarf us with regards to Sponsorship.
3 - THFC have built the best stadium in the world, and the best training complex in the world. Liverpool have not invested in their stadium.

So taking into account the ability for LFC to generate more money than us, due to their history and worldwide reach, and the fact that we have invested very very heavily in the infrastructure of the club, in actual fact, Levy has spent more overall than the Liverpool board.

Also, you say that I am entrenched in my view, however I stated that I do not believe Levy to be blameless. However, for you to completely ignore the football over the past year, the money spent this summer by Levy, the work that ENIC have done for us to ensure our future is up there with the very best, the loss of moral & rumblings of unhappiness with Poch, is mind boggling.

Let's flip it for example, so when things are bad its Levys fault, so when things were really good & we got to the final of the UCL, was this due to Levy & he was our hero? If not, then why is Poch completely faultless not matter how bad the team is playing? Very strange. & f*ck it continue being "long winded", we have heard time & time again that Poch had money to spend & didn't want to........not sure how that is "Poch continually being undermined"......would be good to see you back it up with anything at all.

seriously dude, talk to someone with the same amount of spare time as you!
Way too long winded. Sorry.

ps. Starting with condescension from a position of total ignorance is always a dumb start to a post.

 

[jurgen]

Simple fact is that spurs in the CL is infinitely more attractive to sponsors, corporates etc, and ultimately to be sold, than a spurs finishing lower mid table. Levy isn't an idiot and will know this.

Unfortunately the time to pull the trigger has come and gone so the best thing (in his eyes) I'm sure will be to just get through to Jan and try and fix as best we can. CL and probably European football is 100% gone.

Such a shame that 5 years good work is pissed away in less than 3 months. Excellent achievement that chaps ??

Hey, hold on here... we are told by BSoDL that Levy's genius means we won't 'do a Leeds' if we don't get CL money, unlike all those other unsustainable clubs i.e. Leicester and Chelsea who haven't had a pot to piss in since they missed out....

So if any club is ready to weather the storm of a non-CL finish, surely it is us, after all we've been putting money under the mattress for enough years now.

And if only we'd got those naming rights eh...

 

[Danny1]

seriously dude, talk to someone with the same amount of spare time as you!
Way too long winded. Sorry.

ps. Starting with condescension from a position of total ignorance is always a dumb start to a post.

Again, comments backed up with NOTHING.......hypocrisy by name......... !

Very strange. Especially when you are on here constantly aswell, guess you must be "so busy" that you just pop on here every now & then. Got to be a WUM.

Also I would suggest that if you don't have time to engage in a discussion, then why say something so ridiculously rose tinted & then dismiss everyone else. Ignorance is bliss, and definitely the dumbest way to post on a forum.

 

[stevenurse]

Hey, hold on here... we are told by BSoDL that Levy's genius means we won't 'do a Leeds' if we don't get CL money, unlike all those other unsustainable clubs i.e. Leicester and Chelsea who haven't had a pot to piss in since they missed out....

So if any club is ready to weather the storm of a non-CL finish, surely it is us, after all we've been putting money under the mattress for enough years now.

And if only we'd got those naming rights eh...

Oh they're coming, I've seen the models and the figures banded about. You wouldn't believe them... Ooooh.

Trying to not stray too far off topic, this season has been a disaster so far in more ways than just on the pitch. Keeping the rights to ourselves to advertise the club as a whole is a good move, to then completely shit the bed isn't...

Similarly with this documentary, I bet Levy et al thought they were on to a real winner, except now where gonna look like absolute mugs yet again when it comes out. Fed up of being a laughing stock.

These are all things that surely must be taken into account with on the field performance and that's down to one man. I genuinely think Poch is trying to prove a point by picking Aurier. It's the only plausible explanation

 

[Spunkmonkey]

Poch has definitely been sold short by Levy but what can the fans do to get rid of owners?

Suppose we could dismantle the new stadium brick by brick.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Poch has definitely been sold short by Levy but what can the fans do to get rid of owners?

Stop spending the cash.

Yeah possibly A&C, and you're right many where giving him credit, including me.

And yes, it's most definitely a combination of factors, most of us can agree on that.

My position in all this is actually quite straight forward.

Even though there are a lot of variables in play it's impossible to quantify the extent of each and reach a solid conclusion based on such.

It's extremely subjective and spurious to start analysing what might, or what might not of happened behind the scenes.

What I'm doing is looking at what is quantifiable, and that's what happening on the pitch.

So, yes we know there are other factors in play, but IMHO, they shouldn't be hamstringing us to the extent we've seen on the pitch, not by a long shot.

The manager is at the top of the pyramid in terms of the playing staff and has to be held accountable for a lot of this.

We know Levys's MO, but that doesn't excuse how poor we've been for this amount of time.

You are right the footie is awful. I for one is simply advocating that we should separate placing blame (I don't think it started with Pochettino) from what must be done (Pochettino probably isn't the right guy anymore).

 

[glacierSpurs]

Well, thats interesting. Ornstein is no bullshitter.

Edit: you missed out the paragraph before which is pretty important!

Hansi Flick is expected to continue in his role as Bayern’s interim boss through to the end of the season, at which point, the German champions will ideally secure a permanent appointment. Not only does that give Flick a chance to steady the ship and save Bayern having to make a definitive call mid-season, but it keeps them open to options which do not currently exist.

And just when I thought I can have my hope high of Levy discussing with Bayern to come in for Poch, you dashed my hope! ?

 

[Kspur]

seriously dude, talk to someone with the same amount of spare time as you!
Way too long winded. Sorry.
[

Again, comments backed up with NOTHING.......hypocrisy by name......... !

Very strange. Especially when you are on here constantly aswell, guess you must be "so busy" that you just pop on here every now & then. Got to be a WUM.

Also I would suggest that if you don't have time to engage in a discussion, then why say something so ridiculously rose tinted & then dismiss everyone else. Ignorance is bliss, and definitely the dumbest way to post on a forum.

? talking about your assumption that an L1 in a FTSE100 company would know nothing about business. Dope

anyway. You’re on ignore now so please don’t expect another response.

 

[Shadydan]

seriously dude, talk to someone with the same amount of spare time as you!
Way too long winded. Sorry.

ps. Starting with condescension from a position of total ignorance is always a dumb start to a post.

If you can't rebuttal what is a very fair and straightforward post it says a lot more about your argument, its weak. You have zero basis for blaming the chairman for this current predicament and I am yet to hear a compelling argument from those who think the same - it's the equivalent of sticking two fingers in your ears and shouting at the top of your voice, just face up to reality and admit it.

Levy isn't blameless but he doesn't control what goes on in the pitch and you have to say that this summer he did what wasn't expected of him and backed the manager.

 

[double0]

I think it’s gone past the not coaching properly to the fact that none of them want him to be in the dug out anymore.

Well if that’s the case they need weeding out