The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[rez9000]

My view is nothing to do with loyalty. My post about loyalty was speculating on why Levy hasn’t sacked him yet. And I believe that is to do with loyalty.

I however believe we should back him as we know the heights he can take the team. There’s mitigating circumstances for team performance that can be worked trough with time. Bringing in a different manager doesn't mean we are going to achieve our objectives any quicker than we might do keeping Poch. I feel he has earnt the right to see through the rebuild. Of course it’s a results based business and if we continue to move towards the relegation zone then of course he needs to go. I believe he’ll turn it around though.

And nowhere have I advocated for his removal. The only point I'm seeking to make is that loyalty is not a reason for sticking with him. There are other reasons for sticking with him, but loyalty simply isn't one of them.

 

[Primativ]

Winks pre-injury was on the verge of ripping up trees. He's playing through the pain which is being managed. I wouldn't go underestmating him just yet - had a great game against Barca last year.

He's still young and can add value. I think we just need to sort out the problems whatever they may be and see some of our underrated players flourish.

Was he?

Oh I see...one game against Barca? How long will he dine out on that for? Jack Wilshere anyone..

He just isn’t in the class of Ndombele and GLC and so he’s a squad option. My point all along has been he isn’t good enough to start for us regularly, that’s all. If he’s a bench player who fills in occasionally that’s great but I’m sick of seeing him start games week in week out

 

[Trix]

Yeah, if you think you're getting back on the bandwagon that easy, think again

Who died and made you the band wagon ticket inspector?

 

[rez9000]

But I do think we are on the right path. We’ve made some good signings in the summer and can’t wait until they are given proper game time to show what they can do. I also think Levy is backing Poch and will make further signings in January so it looks like to me that he’s laying new foundations already and is committed to us long term. This season is a transition and write off if we are better off in the future and rid of the dead wood.

Sorry, ollie, meant to reply earlier:

I don't disagree that he should be given time, only that 'loyalty' isn't a valid reason for doing so.

A manager could be given time because it's recognised that he has the ability to fix things, or that there are other issues going on, or that it would be expensive to change him or that there are no suitable candidates to replace him. Those are all adequate reasons for refraining from pulling the trigger. That a manager has chosen not to abandon a club when a bigger one came calling is certainly laudable and appreciated, but it's not a consideration when it comes to deciding whether the club should retain his services.

 

[Trix]

Sincerely hope you're wrong. The last ray of hope was the home game v RSB, after which Poch immediately popped the balloon of optimism by doing precisely this. If he can't spot the obvious this time around I'll be totally dumbfounded.

Hope I'm wrong as well mate. We'll see.

 

[Primativ]

Some people are really angry we won it seems, just means that they might have to change their mind because it's ruined their agenda...can't have the team winning and doing well, of course it's not as important as being right on the internet is it

You do realise how ridiculous you sound crowing after a win away against one of the weakest teams in the C. league don’t you.

No agendas just a slow realisation Poch may have run out of ideas. If he turns it around then great but last night does not make up for a year of mainly shite results and performances and it doesn’t signal a turnaround either.

 

[dudu]

If you really think we might have turned the corner, just wait until the weekend. The home fixture against RSB was the same thing. Dropped wantaways and changed a terrible cm partnership. Won 5-0. What happened after? Same shit as the entire season. No evidence to suggest Poch will finally stick. Be floored if Toby, Serge, Eriksen and Winks don’t immediately return

The "Wantaway" rose started last night though did he not....

What partnership started in CM on Sunday again?

Know this doesn't fit in with your non-stop agenda-driven anti-everything posts but you are eventually going to have to accept you have no clue what is going on inside our club.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

You do realise how ridiculous you sound crowing after a win away against one of the weakest teams in the C. league don’t you.

No agendas just a slow realisation Poch may have run out of ideas. If he turns it around then great but last night does not make up for a year of mainly shite results and performances and it doesn’t signal a turnaround either.

A team that had lost twice in 21 previous home games in Europe, who beat last years eventual winners at home and had previously never lost to an English team at home in the Champions League. Also not losing at home to PSG and Napoli.

Have a day off mate, you sound more ridiculous for trying to play it down.

And I'm more in the "Poch's done" camp than I am "Must stay" camp.

 

[TOLBINY]

Pochettino warns of 'painful' rebuild ahead of summer transfer window

Mauricio Pochettino warned Tottenham that a "painful" rebuilding job is required to bring their squad to the same level as the new stadium.

www.standard.co.uk

“Now it’s about creating another chapter and to have the clear idea of how we are going to build that new project. We need to rebuild. It’s going to be painful.”

I'm not sure he could have been more clear than that, he's also been slated for saying that because people think that it put players noses out of joint so he can't win either way with this fanbase on that. He could never say that he will only play players depending on a set of circumstance because what happens if we get a situation we can't get rid of a player who wants to leave or we want (Which has happened). What if we get injuries and we don't have the luxury of the players who we want for the future being available and are only left with the players who aren't part of the future (which has happened)

Also I don't agree with the majority of fans would back the manager because I've consistently had arguments with people on here complaining they're sick of transition to which I asked what do they expect.

So I don't think it's a misunderstanding at all. Because Poch said what you wanted to hear and you are still unhappy. He also spent all summer letting people know he wasn't happy himself with the dealings of the outgoings by constantly reminding people he doesn't deal with the transfers and wasn't getting the rebuild he wanted.

I can appreciate the frustration of players like Eriksen playing because I find it frustrating myself but let's not pretend you needed to hear a statement to be able to support him with what's happening this season because he did exactly that.

Poch did not have to say anything publicly about who he would and would not select. What he should have done is sat down privately with those who were refusing to sign a new contract and explain that he would love to have them at the club (if true) for the next chapter but if they could not give him that assurance then they would have to understand that his team selections would be predominantly based upon building the next chapter rather than giving everyone a game.

 

[Locotoro]

Poch did not have to say anything publicly about who he would and would not select. What he should have done is sat down privately with those who were refusing to sign a new contract and explain that he would love to have them at the club (if true) for the next chapter but if they could not give him that assurance then they would have to understand that his team selections would be predominantly based upon building the next chapter rather than giving everyone a game.

The problem is that he already set a precedent with the Toby situation. No contract and back in the team because of his professionalism.

I can envisage that he did sit down with the players and they probably did give assurances that they would give 100% and be totally professional, and he has to take them at their word to a certain extent, but the reality on the pitch has been that they have not performed well.

I look at Poch and compare him to an Office Manager who is trying to manage a team and sees one of his "star performers" who is disillusioned with not getting that promotion or new role. the player has really been trusted and fundamental to what you've achieved as a team and Poch still values the input of said employee (perhaps even hope they will choose to stay) but it can create a difficult dynamic and outcome in reality.

Anyone who has managed people will know this is a real problem.

 

[wrd]

Poch did not have to say anything publicly about who he would and would not select. What he should have done is sat down privately with those who were refusing to sign a new contract and explain that he would love to have them at the club (if true) for the next chapter but if they could not give him that assurance then they would have to understand that his team selections would be predominantly based upon building the next chapter rather than giving everyone a game.

But my point was the guy I was quoting was saying if Poch came out and said bla bla bla then he'd have the majority on board and you proved my point that that's not true because you think he should have done something different. As I said he can't win in terms of what he should/shouldn't say.

 

[Shadydan]

You do realise how ridiculous you sound crowing after a win away against one of the weakest teams in the C. league don’t you.

No agendas just a slow realisation Poch may have run out of ideas. If he turns it around then great but last night does not make up for a year of mainly shite results and performances and it doesn’t signal a turnaround either.

I didn't mention anyone but if you're taking exception to my post then you're putting yourself in that bracket just so you know...

 

[DCSPUR]

I am going to be controversial and say I don't care who plays on Saturday.

Poch's entire success has been built around a complete squad ethos. There is an underlying philosophy and whomever is called upon is expected to step up. Obviously things have gone pear shaped of late, but he has been pretty vocal about the coming issues long before they actually occurred. But when things have been right with Poch's approach they have never been better.

It's just not his way to follow up on a success like yesterday by sticking to those 11 players week in week out, and in doing so sideline the likes of Eriksen, Alderwiereld, Aurier etc. And I agree with him. Yes, it might help us win on Saturday, but in terms of making this season a success he needs to find a way to get the best out of all these key players who, particularly with Eriksen, is in a really bad place right now.

Eriksen looks like he couldn't give a shit, but I think there is much more to it than that. Really he looks completely shot of any confidence. For him personally this must have been an incredibly hard few months. He went from the highs of the Champions League semi-final, on top of the world, the most consistent playmaker in the world's best league for a number of years, then he announced his intention to look for a new challenge to try and fulfill his spanish dream fully expecting suitors to line up and it has been an astonishingly brutal fall for him since then. He is not throwing his toys around, he has just been through a very shattering period in his life and is likely in a very low place.

The problems we have faced this season are rooted in a fracturing of squad harmony, the key element to Poch's success. Yes, these fractures have either been caused or exacerbated by these players with contract issues or seemingly wanting out. But Poch's fix will never be and would never be to sideline these players, to choose the same starting 11 every week and essentially ostracise half the squad.

Of course for us fans, we have been longing for a performance like last night's for months, finally we get some relief and it is only natural that we clammer for more of the same. Finally we have our Spurs back, so for god sake why regress, just stick with this team! But this completely goes against everything Poch stands for. His solution is regaining the squad harmony, picking the same 11 week in week out does the opposite. Just think Harry Redknapp.

Pochettino has not lost this group of players, they took him out for dinner when the pressure was building. He has not lost his man management skills - just look at how brilliantly he handled the situation with Son. To get from the red card at Everton, to seeing Poch walk Son out to the away fans last night, after the others had left the pitch, that is quite something in four days. It is and will always be about the collective with this manager. Give your all for the collective, show intent and commitment in training and you are part of the team, if not the starting 11.

And since we know that this is Poch's approach, we could look at yesterday's performance as a sign that this whole squad is starting to find it's mojo again, not that Poch has found the right starting 11. There will be changes on Saturday. Verts and Alderweireld and Aurier and Winks will all still keep featuring. Gradually they will find form and over the course of this season we will badly need them at times. The likes of Lo Ceslo, Ndombele and Sessegnon will continue to be pushed, challenged and benched. Poch will continue to play Eriksen, continue to support him and try and bring him out of this slump. He knows that yesterday was just a blip if he can't get this whole squad united behind his vision again... personally I think he will, and in my opinion a big part of that is because he won't be playing the same starting 11 on saturday.

terrific post - am baffled by the negative rating from @Grey Fox - hoping fat fingers

 

[TOLBINY]

The problem is that he already set a precedent with the Toby situation. No contract and back in the team because of his professionalism.

I can envisage that he did sit down with the players and they probably did give assurances that they would give 100% and be totally professional, and he has to take them at their word to a certain extent, but the reality on the pitch has been that they have not performed well.

I look at Poch and compare him to an Office Manager who is trying to manage a team and sees one of his "star performers" who is disillusioned with not getting that promotion or new role. the player has really been trusted and fundamental to what you've achieved as a team and Poch still values the input of said employee (perhaps even hope they will choose to stay) but it can create a difficult dynamic and outcome in reality.

Anyone who has managed people will know this is a real problem.

You're completely correct about the difficulty of managing people. That's why I mentioned using the 'New Chapter' concept to explain away any precedent or principles that may have been previously established. This is a fresh 5 year plan, are you in or are you out?

 

[TOLBINY]

But my point was the guy I was quoting was saying if Poch came out and said bla bla bla then he'd have the majority on board and you proved my point that that's not true because you think he should have done something different. As I said he can't win in terms of what he should/shouldn't say.

I am not a majority, I am an individual - the majority may well have been 'on board', who knows?

 

[mike_l]

Anybody who ever wants us to lose needs to dig a hole, lie in it and wait.

It's their prerogative if they want to see things that way, I want us to win every game regardless of the competition or circumstances, but I can see why someone might take that stance. A short term hit for long term prosperity, it's not that crazy, just pragmatic.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

It's their prerogative if they want to see things that way, I want us to win every game regardless of the competition or circumstances, but I can see why someone might take that stance. A short term hit for long term prosperity, it's not that crazy, just pragmatic.

Actively wanting your team to lose? Not for me, can’t be a real supporter. It’s black and white.

 

[wrd]

It's their prerogative if they want to see things that way, I want us to win every game regardless of the competition or circumstances, but I can see why someone might take that stance. A short term hit for long term prosperity, it's not that crazy, just pragmatic.

Id gladly take a loss if we had nothing to play for and it stopped chelsea or arsenal winning a title I'll be honest.

 

[Primativ]

A team that had lost twice in 21 previous home games in Europe, who beat last years eventual winners at home and had previously never lost to an English team at home in the Champions League. Also not losing at home to PSG and Napoli.

Have a day off mate, you sound more ridiculous for trying to play it down.

And I'm more in the "Poch's done" camp than I am "Must stay" camp.

I’m not saying it wasn’t an excellent performance or result, I’m just saying let’s hold off before telling people who want Poch out that they had it all wrong.

 

[DFF]

...This is a fresh 5 year plan, are you in or are you out?

Kane: I’m out.