The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[alamo]

....

Christ alive! You don't half talk some pap.

Excuses? No, people are rating Poch on his history with us which include a champions league final, our best league finishes in recent years and a win ratio higher that pretty much any manager we have had, well, ever.

The rebuild comments are more aimed around how he has been hamstrung in refreshing and strengthening where needed.

Have we been great over the last 12 months? Not particularly. Does his record merit a degree of faith and another season - at least - before sections of the fans demand he get the boot? Absolutely.

I fully expect you to continute banging on about the lack of a trophy, but if you can't see what has been achieved outside of that then the problem is yours.

 

[Shadydan]

This is why I called him dramatic...there is no middle ground.

I guess some people like moving goalposts in order to satisfy their agenda expectations ?‍

 

[Gassin's finest]

This is why I called him dramatic...there is no middle ground.

Modern society.

Everything is either "Amazing" or "Shit".

Superlatives have replaced moderation.

 

[Primativ]

Finish on 80 points = acceptable
Finish on 79 points = shocker

Sounds about right

When did I say that?

 

[Primativ]

Christ alive! You don't half talk some pap.

Excuses? No, people are rating Poch on his history with us which include a champions league final, our best league finishes in recent years and a win ratio higher that pretty much any manager we have had, well, ever.

The rebuild comments are more aimed around how he has been hamstrung in refreshing and strengthening where needed.

Have we been great over the last 12 months? Not particularly. Does his record merit a degree of faith and another season - at least - before sections of the fans demand he get the boot? Absolutely.

I fully expect you to continute banging on about the lack of a trophy, but if you can't see what has been achieved outside of that then the problem is yours.

Blah blah blah. No trophies in 6 years and counting...

I can see what has been achieved but ultimately the time is long overdue to start winning trophies. I appreciate not everyone shares this view but it’s my view. Poch at the moment is the nearly man. Some people act like he’s taken a team of journeyman into the top 4 whereas I believe we clearly have the third best squad in the league so achieving top 4 is merely par for the course, it’s the minimum expectation. I’m sure Levy is happy with just top 4 though and it seems so are many of the fan base.

 

[rez9000]

When did I say that?

I wouldn’t say anyone’s specifically said you’ve said that, Prim - I think it’s more highlighting that you’re currently locked into a particular viewpoint when it comes to Poch.

That in itself isn’t necessarily unusual - we all have our views and opinions that we vociferously defend - but I think you’ve boiled down the possibilities to a specific conclusion to the exclusion of other possibilities.

That, I think colours everything you see. Again, that’s not unusual - it happens all the time.

I just think you’ve drawn a conclusion (which may well be correct, I’ll stress) and are ignoring other possibilities.

 

[alamo]

I can see what has been achieved but ultimately the time is long overdue to start winning trophies. I appreciate not everyone shares this view but it’s my view. Poch at the moment is the nearly man. Some people act like he’s taken a team of journeyman into the top 4 whereas I believe we clearly have the third best squad in the league so achieving top 4 is merely par for the course, it’s the minimum expectation. I’m sure Levy is happy with just top 4 though and it seems so are many of the fan base.

Ok, so genuine question - what would you consider a viable next step? What more could we have done and how can we improve?

 

[Klinsmannesque]

This is why I called him dramatic...there is no middle ground.

I would suggest you are being more extreme in your opinion than @Primativ . He said comfortably third, which is what we should be looking at imo when considering the other 17 teams. You've gone with his expectation is challenging City and Pool which is not what he said at all. I don't think we should be just stumbling over the line again this season either.

 

[Shadydan]

When did I say that?

You didn't, you insinuated with the utter guff in the post which started this stupid debate.

 

[Gb160]

I would suggest you are being more extreme in your opinion than @Primativ . He said comfortably third, which is what we should be looking at imo when considering the other 17 teams. You've gone with his expectation is challenging City and Pool which is not what he said at all. I don't think we should be just stumbling over the line again this season either.

I would suggest you actually read his posts.

Poch really has no excuses not to be clear third and pushing the top two this season

 

[Klinsmannesque]

Ahem...

I'd interpret pushing top two as closer to them, not necessarily challenging.

 

[Gb160]

I'd interpret pushing top two as closer to them, not necessarily challenging.

Nonsense, getting closer to them isn't pushing them.
Getting with a few points of them (ie challenging them), is pushing them.

 

[Primativ]

Ok, so genuine question - what would you consider a viable next step? What more could we have done and how can we improve?

A viable next step for me would be significantly improved performances and style of play this season. Tighter at the back and a fluid attacking setup.

Less subjectively I expect Poch to get this team comfortably into third place in the league. It’s really not hard to understand, if by the end of the season we are desperately trying to get 3 points every game because we are at risk of being overtaken by arsenal Chelsea and united in the race of top four, I’ll be really really disappointed in Pochs performance this season. It just won’t be good enough and no fan should be happy with that.

Its not an exaggeration to say Chelsea, United and Arsenal are the weakest they have been in decades. If we are neck and neck with those teams in April, Poch would have had a shocker and it just won’t be good enough.

 

[Primativ]

You didn't, you insinuated with the utter guff in the post which started this stupid debate.

??‍

 

[Primativ]

I would suggest you actually read his posts.

Yes read my posts properly. I’m saying we should be closer to the top two than the other three. Pushing them, not actually neck and neck with them.

Anyway whilst we are at it, why are so far off Liverpool when our first 11s are really close in terms of talent and quality.

 

[yankspurs]

Jesus, SC. Get back on the tracks, will you please.

 

[nailsy]

The season Poch took over we finished behind Everton in sixth place in the league so we aren't the only top six team in that time not to win a trophy.

It's all well and good saying that we should have won a trophy, but no-one would have expected us to win the league in that time. No one would have expected us to win the champions league either so it really comes down to the FA Cup and League Cup. I can't think of too many occasions when we've gone out of a cup to a team that we were expected to beat. Most of our defeats have been to fellow top four sides where the difference between success and failure can often be down to luck, injuries & refereeing decisions as much as tactics, motivation and coaching. If we'd spent the money that City, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool had over the last five years I could understand the frustration at not winning anything, but Poch has been fighting with one hand tied behind his back for the last five years due to the stadium build.

 

[spursfan77]

What happens to Poch if Munich dick us 3 nil tonight? Does it make him a worse manager or that he's lost the dressing room or that we were beaten by a better team?

 

[Deleted member 29446]

What happens to Poch if Munich dick us 3 nil tonight? Does it make him a worse manager or that he's lost the dressing room or that we were beaten by a better team?

Probably a little bit of both. But it depends on how we loose I guess.

 

[alamo]

Its not an exaggeration to say Chelsea, United and Arsenal are the weakest they have been in decades. If we are neck and neck with those teams in April, Poch would have had a shocker and it just won’t be good enough.

There is so much more to it than this. They may be weaker - time will tell - but factor in the net spend since Poch has been in charge and his achievements are all the more impressive.

As you say it is all about opinions and expectations, and regarding the former I would consider another top 4 finish as us once again having punched above our weight.