The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Primativ]

What are you even on about?

looking at our poor form this season has little to do with our decline at the end of last season and i’ve stated the reasons why.

Deary Deary me. You lost me there ??? Delusional mate.

 

[Primativ]

you are so negative about spurs. I keep seeing you and Ron say that Winks is our DM, he is not, he is a deep playmaker, just because you have a myopic view of that position on the field. here are names of others that also play in the position but are not DM's. Modric, carrick, xavi, pirlo and jorgino. Now i am not saying Winks is as good as these, but tried to give you names that you would know. They were also not DM's, but they had players next to or either side of them that did the tackling.

Can you see that buying no one was a problem in the summer of 18-19 whilst also losing Dembele and Wanyama to injuries. whilst also losing Dier to injury from xmas, by the way Winks and Sissoko also kept getting injured themselves but were getting rushed back. Just before Wolves happened i think we were within 5 points of the top 2. This was the problem, we have tried to correct it with our signings this season, but they have not settled in yet. Now our problems are at the back they got old and injured or are just not good enough. Pochettino knew 3 years ago that Toby and Jan had lost pace that is why i believe he signed Sanchez and played him to cover as he wants them to play high on the pitch, but they have lost a little bit of confidence in their own pace so drop deeper, so then our midfield drops in deeper etc...

Now to the reason we did not buy in my opinion was because levy wanted to borrow a lot of money in the bond market and needed to show good results to the City to allow him to get what was a ballooning debt. He was only able to get this debt because Poch had done so well. Levy managed to mortgage us for 640 million pounds, but at the same time he produced 2 x proffit of 150 ish million pounds, that is sat in the bank already (ask yourself why he did not pay that off the debt) because he knows we need a re-build, he can leverage this money as we don't pay all transfers up front. By the way we are already into this season so we are probably on our way to another 150 million profit this season (maybe more as its in our stadium). They need to share this responsibility as it was Levy that needed Poch to not purchase anyone. Sometimes we need to read between the lines.

Tottenham wanted a mortgage of 640,000,000 so needed all of our profit to show the bank that they are a)profitable b)got a high turnover to afford c) not carrying lots of IOU's for player purchases so that they can afford their monthly payments. At the same time managed to save about 300,000,000 in the bank. why did he not just pay that money off the loan? if you drop a few zero's off you might be able to visualise a bit easier to a normal person getting a mortgage. Companies also have to prove they can afford.

So these glaring holes in our club are holding back Poch as he needs about 15 months before they are ready and fit enough for his system. So they share this responsibility (Levy and Poch). You see the problems now, but think back to what Poch was telling us in the run up to the final. He knew this was coming even if he got everyone in last summer as he would not be able to have them all Poch fit and ready to play his style.

If you want to keep changing manager and go back to old Tottenham, just take a look at how hard this is to appoint the right guy. take a look at Man Utd they can have anyone they like and how many have they had since Sir Alex? Look at Arsenal already sounding like the fans want Emery gone. also look at chelsea change every 2 years.

If we can get out of this shit period that Levy imposed on Poch, we will be fine as we already know he can do it with inferior players (on the cheap) imagine what he can do with superior players. We also need to be smart with transfers and be like all the others were with us when we hit 5th place. so if Chilwell or Maddison or Ndidi are on our list somewhere then just do (and pay that little bit more it to also keep them rebuilding and behind us) Levy will have to change mentality here for this to happen. He needs to though as they all did it to us.

inferior players on the cheap? Poch has the best striker in the world. He had an unbelievable squad to work with over the last five years. If you think Spurs will sign better CBs than Vertonghen and Toby in the next few seasons you’re in for disappointment.

You make it sound like Poch has polished turds for the last five years and now he will be able to go one step further when he’s allowed to sign top quality. You’re way off the mark.

And yet again another poster comparing winks to Xavi pirlo, modric and carrick. Face palm. The reason those players were world class and correct for that position was because they were world class progressive passers and playmakers. What on earth do people like you see when you watch Winks put on a spurs shirt and run around for 90 minutes? He is so far off those players its unreal so why even mention them? Winks can’t play the DLP role as he can’t pass progressively so what’s the point in telling me he is there to be a DLP and not a DM when he can do neither adequately? The over rating of Winks is phenomenal. Yet people can’t work out why our CM is a shambles. ?

 

[jacko73]

Oh yeah, no doubt they have a better squad than us and a large part of our issues is under investment in the squad and a lack of pro-activity in the transfer market. I don't expect to be playing to the level they are.

I was just pointing out that managing fatigue etc is something all managers have to do, and that this season so far you would be hard pressed to notice that the likes of Salah and Mane had international tournaments and no pre-season. It's not like they are really using their squad either at this stage. They just seem to be managing that situation far better than we ever did.

Although the fair point was made earlier that it's only November, so let's hope that it does eventually bite them on the arse.

I hear what you are saying about Liverpool and their front 3, but i am not sure they will be facing the same problems we had. We had 9 returning the week before we started the season, they did not have that. We also had sanchez and eriksen in that tournament, but they got back earlier. Our midfield 2 was ravaged as Dembele (our best player) could not play at this level any longer if he wanted to maximise earning from the game. Wanyama and Dier were not fit, this left Winks and Sissoko. Even if the two who did play for liverpool went out they still have origi and the swiss guy xhaka, Firmino, ox, lalana, and milner would all do a job for the team. They have a squad, we have a team + 1 in each area of the pitch.

 

[dontcallme]

Massive amounts of injuries that started about midway last season

This is the thing I am struggling with regards to Poch.

Last season there was WC fatigue. We didn't buy any players. We played most of the season with Wembley as our home ground and the fans were sick of it. We had a lot of injuries, especially in midfield.

Add all this up and it was understandable for performances and results to get worse. All in all we did well. On paper arguably our best season in the Prem.

But this season we don't have the same issues. You can argue that not buying the last couple of seasons has hurt us and not getting rid of a few players who want out is taking its toll.

But ultimately I don't think Poch is managing this situation well. He has a talented squad and can drop players. I believe Poch is mostly culpable for the start we have had.

Fans always want to believe things will improve. At the moment I believe many feel things will get worse which is why Poch is under so much pressure.

 

[jacko73]

inferior players on the cheap? Poch has the best striker in the world. He had an unbelievable squad to work with over the last five years. If you think Spurs will sign better CBs than Vertonghen and Toby in the next few seasons you’re in for disappointment.

You make it sound like Poch has polished turds for the last five years and now he will be able to go one step further when he’s allowed to sign top quality. You’re way off the mark.

And yet again another poster comparing winks to Xavi pirlo, modric and carrick. Face palm. The reason those players were world class and correct for that position was because they were world class progressive passers and playmakers. What on earth do people like you see when you watch Winks put on a spurs shirt and run around for 90 minutes? He is so far off those players its unreal so why even mention them? Winks can’t play the DLP role as he can’t pass progressively so what’s the point in telling me he is there to be a DLP and not a DM when he can do neither adequately? The over rating of Winks is phenomenal. Yet people can’t work out why our CM is a shambles. ?

Your faux outrage is funny, but i will indulge.

Kane does not = team/squad 5 years later and we still do not have someone to allow him a rest. so we have spent 30 million on 2 strikers to allow him a rest. This season we have no one, whilst the team we have replaced in the champions league Arsenal have in that time spent 60 million twice on strikers and 70 million on a winger.

our record signing in the AM area of the field is Lamela 30 million all the others were 11, 22 and 5. they have all been here 4/5 years now. you think this is competing with the other 5 teams. even Pep says players only listen for 3 years and he can drop any one of his players as he has quality team + 2 all over the park. Even Everton spent 50 on Gilfi, 35 on Iwobi, i think 50 on Richarlison and 28 on Bolasie.

Our best midfielders were wanyama 11, dembele 15, Dier 4, Winks 0 and Sissoko 30 - Klopp spent more than that on Keita let alone Fabinho and Ox

It's cheap which is what i said, i did not say that they were not of good quality and I do recognise that transfer fees have moved on, but that shows you how long ago we actually signed them. This season we are actually spending, but we have only seen 1 of those players.


On the winks point i have seen you call him a DM and I did caveat with "i am not saying he is as good" so why would you then go and ignore that part zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[ClintEastwould]

This is the thing I am struggling with regards to Poch.

Last season there was WC fatigue. We didn't buy any players. We played most of the season with Wembley as our home ground and the fans were sick of it. We had a lot of injuries, especially in midfield.

Add all this up and it was understandable for performances and results to get worse. All in all we did well. On paper arguably our best season in the Prem.

But this season we don't have the same issues. You can argue that not buying the last couple of seasons has hurt us and not getting rid of a few players who want out is taking its toll.

But ultimately I don't think Poch is managing this situation well. He has a talented squad and can drop players. I believe Poch is mostly culpable for the start we have had.

Fans always want to believe things will improve. At the moment I believe many feel things will get worse which is why Poch is under so much pressure.

Thanks for this post as it allows me to make a point that I haven't gotten the chance to make - context permitted. With all the above taken into account, for me the only real issues that directly fall on Poch's lap started to arise late last season and the start of this one. The only glaring mistakes of his that I can see are his continued selection of wantaway players - this has only occured this season - and his continued selection of the diamond formation - this started last season but you have to take into account our massive injuries, thus forcing Poch to think outside of the box to try and make a midfield of Winks and Sissoko work.

 

[jacko73]

This is the thing I am struggling with regards to Poch.

Last season there was WC fatigue. We didn't buy any players. We played most of the season with Wembley as our home ground and the fans were sick of it. We had a lot of injuries, especially in midfield.

Add all this up and it was understandable for performances and results to get worse. All in all we did well. On paper arguably our best season in the Prem.

But this season we don't have the same issues. You can argue that not buying the last couple of seasons has hurt us and not getting rid of a few players who want out is taking its toll.

But ultimately I don't think Poch is managing this situation well. He has a talented squad and can drop players. I believe Poch is mostly culpable for the start we have had.

Fans always want to believe things will improve. At the moment I believe many feel things will get worse which is why Poch is under so much pressure.

Remember when we had the youngest average age of 23. something, Well we have 3 x 30 year olds in our back 5, even eriksen and Lamela are 27, Kane is 26 how time flys. We see the names not change and think the quality remains. The game is so much quicker at the top level now that you need new faces and ours have not delivered when we have bought them in, so poch had to run the old good team into the ground. I think that this season Poch got Levy to understand that we are going to have to compete by buying good quality young players, we got 3 and Poch has had what 7 games from all three of those.

I should add this, did anyone watch the pre-season and notice the energy when our youngsters were on the pitch v when they were not? I did, and hoped that was because the first team was later back.

 

[dudu]

inferior players on the cheap? Poch has the best striker in the world. He had an unbelievable squad to work with over the last five years. If you think Spurs will sign better CBs than Vertonghen and Toby in the next few seasons you’re in for disappointment.

You make it sound like Poch has polished turds for the last five years and now he will be able to go one step further when he’s allowed to sign top quality. You’re way off the mark.

And yet again another poster comparing winks to Xavi pirlo, modric and carrick. Face palm. The reason those players were world class and correct for that position was because they were world class progressive passers and playmakers. What on earth do people like you see when you watch Winks put on a spurs shirt and run around for 90 minutes? He is so far off those players its unreal so why even mention them? Winks can’t play the DLP role as he can’t pass progressively so what’s the point in telling me he is there to be a DLP and not a DM when he can do neither adequately? The over rating of Winks is phenomenal. Yet people can’t work out why our CM is a shambles. ?

Do you even believe your own sentence?

Who was our unbelievable squad of CM's last season?

 

[Stamford]

Do you even believe your own sentence?

Who was our unbelievable squad of CM's last season?

He said squad. But ok.

 

[Mr Pink]

Point is our performances might be similarly poor but the root causes differ massively.

Nothing to do with being in denial. Everything to do with looking at the problem rationally rather than just constant negative ramblings that I read on here daily.

No, I just don't agree at all. Part of the root causes are to do with Poch himself.

How on earth can you not see that.

He coaches the team, he prepares them, he motivates them, he's responsible for the tactics.

Yes there have been issues, but there far from being solely responsible for our poor form going on so long.

You're not looking closely enough.

 

[dontcallme]

Thanks for this post as it allows me to make a point that I haven't gotten the chance to make - context permitted. With all the above taken into account, for me the only real issues that directly fall on Poch's lap started to arise late last season and the start of this one. The only glaring mistakes of his that I can see are his continued selection of wantaway players - this has only occured this season - and his continued selection of the diamond formation - this started last season but you have to take into account our massive injuries, thus forcing Poch to think outside of the box to try and make a midfield of Winks and Sissoko work.

I am certainly not in the 100% Poch out group. I am on the fence.

At times I err on the Poch out side of the fence as in my experience it is rare for managers to turn things around once results are bad for this long.

I believe Poch has had input on transfers and is partly culpable for the issues as a result of not buying.

I have no problem with not buying and concentrating on development. However KWP, Davinson, Foyth abd others have not sufficiently developed.

Poch has to take responsibility for this.

At the moment we are not developing and many of the experienced players are not performing. Fortunately our transfers have been of a better quality in the summer.

Poch has done a fantastic job up to now. My concern is if he is the right person to get results in the short term then rebuild.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

No, I just don't agree at all. Part of the root causes are to do with Poch himself.

How on earth can you not see that.

He coaches the team, he prepares them, he motivates them, he's responsible for the tactics.

Yes there have been issues, but there far from being solely responsible for our poor form going on so long.

You're not looking closely enough.

Okay, we'll agree to disagree as I am not going to repeat myself.

Unfortunately you've gone from a poster who is generally very balanced, to one who is getting caught up in the frenzy of sacking a manager because you can't deal with the fact we've had a patchy start to the season.

It's cool though.

 

[Primativ]

Okay, we'll agree to disagree as I am not going to repeat myself.

Unfortunately you've gone from a poster who is generally very balanced, to one who is getting caught up in the frenzy of sacking a manager because you can't deal with the fact we've had a patchy start to the season.

It's cool though.

Patchy start to the season ??

 

[wrd]

This is the thing I am struggling with regards to Poch.

Last season there was WC fatigue. We didn't buy any players. We played most of the season with Wembley as our home ground and the fans were sick of it. We had a lot of injuries, especially in midfield.

Add all this up and it was understandable for performances and results to get worse. All in all we did well. On paper arguably our best season in the Prem.

But this season we don't have the same issues. You can argue that not buying the last couple of seasons has hurt us and not getting rid of a few players who want out is taking its toll.

But ultimately I don't think Poch is managing this situation well. He has a talented squad and can drop players. I believe Poch is mostly culpable for the start we have had.

Fans always want to believe things will improve. At the moment I believe many feel things will get worse which is why Poch is under so much pressure.

I think thats as well balanced an assessment as we have had and I agree although Im hopeful we will turn a corner now. Admittedly looks bleak but fingers crossed he can now integrate the new signings and get some results.

 

[dontcallme]

Point is our performances might be similarly poor but the root causes differ massively.

Nothing to do with being in denial. Everything to do with looking at the problem rationally rather than just constant negative ramblings that I read on here daily.

I think the problem is we are looking from the outside.

We have snippets of information including how the team are performing, interviews, press conferences, development of players etc and through this we make our own conclusions.

I have been erring on the side of sacking Poch and bringing in Jose with the view that Jose would do well with our experienced players.

But nothing would make me happier as a fan than seeing Poch turning this around and getting us back playing as a team.

 

[Shadydan]

On the winks point i have seen you call him a DM and I did caveat with "i am not saying he is as good" so why would you then go and ignore that part zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Because it suits his agenda, he gets an erection every time someone mentions Winks and any of those players in the same sentence and immediately loves to put him down, wouldn't worry about it personally.

 

[jacko73]

No, I just don't agree at all. Part of the root causes are to do with Poch himself.

How on earth can you not see that.

He coaches the team, he prepares them, he motivates them, he's responsible for the tactics.

Yes there have been issues, but there far from being solely responsible for our poor form going on so long.

You're not looking closely enough.

You are right he has bought them on himself, i like you, think he should have played Foyth in midfield last year (it might have helped him develop and get rid of those rash tackles when he moved back).

Then their are other things that Levy does that might impact the group, we have to think of this as a workplace as it is. Rose said he felt that as you approach 30 Tottenham dont sign you up on new contracts, so that will be being said in the changing room. Can we also read between the lines that all our Ajax players seem to be the ones that want out, did they notice what Levy had done and manoeuvred them onto long term deals that expired when they were all 30, as Dembele, Jan, Toby and Danny all had this scenario playing out at the same time. So when this happened and Levy approached Eriksen at 26/27 to sign a 4/5 year deal he saw what was coming and that he would be signing up his last contract with Tottenham back then. Come on there are rumours at every workplace I have worked and it does not take long to recognise and that can have an impact.

Levy is a great strategist, but sometimes it comes at a cost. Everyone already thinks we underpay our players, but knowing you will be getting no raise for 4/5 years from the age of 25 in a short career might make you think I am not signing that. Do you think this might cause a problem in the dressing room?

 

[Mr Pink]

Okay, we'll agree to disagree as I am not going to repeat myself.

Unfortunately you've gone from a poster who is generally very balanced, to one who is getting caught up in the frenzy of sacking a manager because you can't deal with the fact we've had a patchy start to the season.

It's cool though.

But it's not a patchy start to a season. It's been going on since last January.

If it was just a patchy start to the season Id totally agree.

You keep trying to separarte last season with this to reduce the accountability facing Poch, when in fact our football has been pretty much the same.

But the fact is, the football hasn't been good enough for the best part of a year, and no matter what external factors have contributed, he has still had a fabulous to squad to work with and it's just not been good enough.

Not about a patchy start, it's about the deterioration of our football over the last year.

And that is a balanced view. I'm just tired of the style of football it's morphed into, it's boring.

 

[jacko73]

Because it suits his agenda, he gets an erection every time someone mentions Winks and any of those players in the same sentence and immediately loves to put him down, wouldn't worry about it personally.

I always want our players to succeed, but i have now even more reason to hope Harry goes on to become world class. This type of player does seem to take longer to develop, i think even Pirlo only got internationally recognised at 23, Carrick and Modric were from memory we signed at 24.

 

[jacko73]

But it's not a patchy start to a season. It's been going on since last January.

If it was just a patchy start to the season Id totally agree.

You keep trying to separarte last season with this to reduce the accountability facing Poch.

But the fact is, the football hasn't been good enough for the best part of a year, and no matter what external factors have contributed, he has still had a fabulous to squad to work with and it's just not been good enough.

Not about a patchy start, it's about the deterioration of our football over the last year.

And that is a balanced view.

But the people arguing that last year counts is to ignore the world cup fatigue and moving home and the general play whilst at Wembley. Do those same people ignore the 4 great years that he has punched above his weight. I maybe wrong on Poch but i would rather go with Poch than Mourinho. you? I think he just has gone too far with this team into his tenure, like Klopp at Dortmund.