The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Everlasting Seconds]

You are all forgetting the impact recent results must have had on our confidence.

No, indeed we are not. To the contrary.

 

[mike_l]

But the facts I'm pointing out have been in place for all that time. Look at when we tailed off. After the Wolves defeat at Wembley arguably. We found ourselves in 3rd, our thin title hopes gone in the wake of the trains that were Liverpool and City. We were miles ahead of the rest. Would you be as motivated as you were prior to those thin hopes going?

If you say yes, you're a liar. All/most human beings behave in similar ways. I would find it hard to want to go out and play Fulham away on a freezing afternoon knowing that no matter what happens, I'll finish 3rd or 4th.

The problem is getting out of that rot. And that's where Poch is coming from in saying we need a refresh IMO.

Edit: I'm not saying I like the rot or that I want it to continue. I'm just offering a different, perhaps realistic and human explanation for things. We all love THFC and we think with our hearts instead of our heads in the wake of bad performances and defeats. We're hurt and we look to lay the blame somewhere. But sometimes it's just logical that something like this would happen.

So you think we'd be better off with players who would be happy to finish 3/4th rather than players who want to win the League? Really?

 

[dimiSpur]

You really think that we're seeing what we're seeing because the players want to win the league but since we probably can't they're just sacking it off?

For the record, I'm not unhappy with the situation because we're not winning every week, I'm unhappy because watching Spurs has become such a chore now, there is no entertainment, nothing to excite, we just plod about for 90 minutes aimlessly. What the hell are they working on in trainin? If this isn't what Poch is instructing them to do then he deserves to be sacked for still picking them, if it IS what he's coaching then he deserves sacking for that.

Either way to me it doesn't look great for him.

I completely agree it's a chore. I didn't even celebrate the equaliser on Saturday. You've hit the nail on the head, it is a chore.

But I think the players see it that way too. They feel like its a chore playing to get 3rd or 4th. Maybe because that's what the media has implanted in their heads in asking where all the trophies are. Personally, I think that's bullshit. Real success is a PL or CL title. The cups are pointless. I look back on last season's CL run a lot more fondly than Ledley lifting the cup with Keane in 2008.

It's not a case of sacking it off, it's a case of knowing no matter how well you do, it won't be enough. That's not easy to take. Knowing your absolute best will be deemed as "failure" by the press and/or the fans.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

In hindsight I think there is a combination of plenty of factors hitting at once.
The demand for players to constantly over perform
The lack each (not only one) transfer window of fresh players who could go on and have an immediate impact from the season start
The lack of rotation (7-9 players always start all the time if able to walk)
The huge CL final let down
Maybe managerial stubbornness in dealing adequately with squad request and imput
Bang, a wall is hit.

I see not way out except for the way out.

 

[dimiSpur]

So you think we'd be better off with players who would be happy to finish 3/4th rather than players who want to win the League? Really?

Are you serious? Where have I said that? Fuck me. Read it again, I'm not going to waste my time explaining my point specifically to you. I'm pointing out a potential explanation for recent performances and the apparent lack of motivation. I never said I fucking like it or want it. What's the matter with you?

 

[dagraham]

I completely agree it's a chore. I didn't even celebrate the equaliser on Saturday. You've hit the nail on the head, it is a chore.

But I think the players see it that way too. They feel like its a chore playing to get 3rd or 4th. Maybe because that's what the media has implanted in their heads in asking where all the trophies are. Personally, I think that's bullshit. Real success is a PL or CL title. The cups are pointless. I look back on last season's CL run a lot more fondly than Ledley lifting the cup with Keane in 2008.

It's not a case of sacking it off, it's a case of knowing no matter how well you do, it won't be enough. That's not easy to take. Knowing your absolute best will be deemed as "failure" by the press and/or the fans.

I kind of see it the opposite way. I think the only thing that’s been planted in their head is that “we are punching above our weight” and we can’t be expected to win things because we don’t have the resources etc.

And while that may not be incorrect all it does in my view is give the player an easy out. We are not expected to win anything, if we make stupid mistakes in semi finals/finals or don’t turn up and let the game pass us by well that’s ok, because we don’t really have the right to be there anyway.

 

[mike_l]

Are you serious? Where have I said that? Fuck me. Read it again, I'm not going to waste my time explaining my point specifically to you. I'm pointing out a potential explanation for recent performances and the apparent lack of motivation. I never said I fucking like it or want it. What's the matter with you?

Calm down, I appreciate I've heavily condensed what you've written bit in a nutshell that is how I've interpreted your post. Do you really believe that they're bored of finishing 3rd or 4th but don't have enough professional pride to not finish 7/8/9th or maybe even worse?

The reason I'm countering your points is because I'm baffled at the lengths you're going to to justify these results for Poch, when the simple most obvious reason is that he's lost the plot.

 

[NickHSpurs]

Why are we always so mentally fragile? Seems with any manager we’ve had, this is always our Achilles heel

Until we hire a proven winner as manager or somehow manage to win something, we always will be.

 

[shelfboy68]

In hindsight I think there is a combination of plenty of factors hitting at once.
The demand for players to constantly over perform
The lack each (not only one) transfer window of fresh players who could go on and have an immediate impact from the season start
The lack of rotation (7-9 players always start all the time if able to walk)
The huge CL final let down
Maybe managerial stubbornness in dealing adequately with squad request and imput
Bang, a wall is hit.

I see not way out except for the way out.

Not sure this CL final loss is an excuse because Liverpool suffered one the year before yet went toe to toe with city and narrowly lost the league and got back to the final and won it.
Now I know you will say Liverpool spent etc but I don't expect us to win the league not with our owners no chance, but I did expect us to push a bit harder and make third our own especially as utd, arsenal and even Chelsea are not special anymore a real opportunity lost and now we look a mid table side.

 

[Mr Pink]

But the facts I'm pointing out have been in place for all that time. Look at when we tailed off. After the Wolves defeat at Wembley arguably. We found ourselves in 3rd, our thin title hopes gone in the wake of the trains that were Liverpool and City. We were miles ahead of the rest. Would you be as motivated as you were prior to those thin hopes going?

If you say yes, you're a liar. All/most human beings behave in similar ways. I would find it hard to want to go out and play Fulham away on a freezing afternoon knowing that no matter what happens, I'll finish 3rd or 4th.

The problem is getting out of that rot. And that's where Poch is coming from in saying we need a refresh IMO.

Edit: I'm not saying I like the rot or that I want it to continue. I'm just offering a different, perhaps realistic and human explanation for things. We all love THFC and we think with our hearts instead of our heads in the wake of bad performances and defeats. We're hurt and we look to lay the blame somewhere. But sometimes it's just logical that something like this would happen.

We've got progressively worse since last February.

That's the reality of the situation.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Not sure this CL final loss is an excuse because Liverpool suffered one the year before yet went toe to toe with city and narrowly lost the league and got back to the final and won it.
Now I know you will say Liverpool spent etc but I don't expect us to win the league not with our owners no chance, but I did expect us to push a bit harder and make third our own especially as utd, arsenal and even Chelsea are not special anymore a real opportunity lost and now we look a mid table side.

On its own I'd offer the CL loss little thought, but as a part of the whole, I'd be inclined to give it some weight.

 

[Cavehillspur]

Still holding out hope that he turns it around.

 

[dimiSpur]

Calm down, I appreciate I've heavily condensed what you've written bit in a nutshell that is how I've interpreted your post. Do you really believe that they're bored of finishing 3rd or 4th but don't have enough professional pride to not finish 7/8/9th or maybe even worse?

The reason I'm countering your points is because I'm baffled at the lengths you're going to to justify these results for Poch, when the simple most obvious reason is that he's lost the plot.

There's a difference in countering my points to altering them. What you did was to alter them.

Your second paragraph is a counter-argument, and not one I necessarily disagree with. Poch has a lot to answer for in this situation. The main counter-argument, which you've neglected to mention, is that he seemingly cannot motivate them! He is certainly sending mixed signals with his statements and interviews. I'm just still unwilling to jump into the Poch out brigade, yet! Obviously, if this continues, we'll have to reconsider things, but I think it's too early as of now.

My point was in no way meant to be an out for Poch, merely a suggestion as to one of the reasons perhaps behind our drop since February.

 

[dimiSpur]

We've got progressively worse since last February.

That's the reality of the situation.

I agree. My points are potential contributing factors to the undoubtable shitstorm we find ourselves in. I'm not saying we're fine. I'm giving reasons other than the simplistic and singular "Poch is shit". He hasn't covered himself in glory, but I refuse to believe another manager would turn this lot into PL winners.

 

[dimiSpur]

I kind of see it the opposite way. I think the only thing that’s been planted in their head is that “we are punching above our weight” and we can’t be expected to win things because we don’t have the resources etc.

And while that may not be incorrect all it does in my view is give the player an easy out. We are not expected to win anything, if we make stupid mistakes in semi finals/finals or don’t turn up and let the game pass us by well that’s ok, because we don’t really have the right to be there anyway.

That's certainly a possibility.

That's a counter-argument @mike_l by the way. FYI....

 

[wadewill]

Just found out I am out and will be missing the game on Sunday

I'm really happy about that.

That's how i feel about Spurs at the moment

 

[Mr Pink]

I agree. My points are potential contributing factors to the undoubtable shitstorm we find ourselves in. I'm not saying we're fine. I'm giving reasons other than the simplistic and singular "Poch is shit". He hasn't covered himself in glory, but I refuse to believe another manager would turn this lot into PL winners.

Poch has done very well for us overall.

No one I can see is calling him shit. But most think he isn't turning this round.

 

[dimiSpur]

Poch has done very well for us overall.

No one I can see is calling him shit. But most think he isn't turning this round.

There are people pointing out that we've won nothing and making derogatory comments about his tenure, albeit a minority.

I still harbour hope of him turning things around.

 

[Mr Pink]

There are people pointing out that we've won nothing and making derogatory comments about his tenure, albeit a minority.

I still harbour hope of him turning things around.

Deserves lots of respect for what he's done. I'd be surprised if he turns this around, it's gone on too long, its become the norm in fact.

 

[Yiddo100]

I agree. My points are potential contributing factors to the undoubtable shitstorm we find ourselves in. I'm not saying we're fine. I'm giving reasons other than the simplistic and singular "Poch is shit". He hasn't covered himself in glory, but I refuse to believe another manager would turn this lot into PL winners.

a new manager would find turning this team into winners extremely difficult , but I hope that a new new manager would be able to get us actually playing good football and maybe look like we can win a match and even get the players to show a bit of passion , all of which we are currently not doing