The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Gassin's finest]

This from The Guardian today

Tottenham’s time for significant action came and went last summer | Eni Aluko

Daniel Levy may judge success by the balance sheet but players want to win things and Mauricio Pochettino’s squad have not been given the best chance to do so at Spurs

www.theguardian.com

... As I look towards my future I am thinking increasingly about the sporting director role...

Probably for the best love, your future as an insightful newspaper columnist is lacking at best.

 

[Matthew]

All good and we'll saying he will be backed in January transfer window but I'm concerned about the games till January.
IF Bayern won 7-2, Brighton beat us 3-0, I'm very concerned about Liverpool. Just hope we don't get thrashed.
Personally, Id like to think he will turn this around but I'm not confident.
And here's another thought.
What if we back him to rebuild then RM or Man Utd comes knocking, will he remain with us or jump.
I sadly don't trust Poch that much anymore.
Fantastic manager but...

you do realise, we'll probably be the first team to beat the scouse ima say 2-0

 

[nailsy]

Its why the lie that the stadium had no impact on transfers was so transparent.

I thought Levy said it won't change our transfer strategy? Our strategy at the time was zero net spend so he wasn't exactly lying.

The problem with this debate is that we don't know for fact the players he turned down, we are just guessing and depending on what side of the argument you're on, you're either going to assume they were Njie, Nkoudou, Fazio style players if you want to defend him or you're going to suggest they were great players but he was being ridiculous. The only player we know which is close to fact is Tielemans who is a pretty good player but I think the vast majority of us would agree that if we had to choose we'd have all wanted Ndombele and if Poch being difficult meant we got him then so be it. So for me It's hard to have the conversation because we simply do not know what was on offer and unless Jj is going to come out with a definitive list we are purely guessing which personally I see as redundant. What I will say and I said this in the summer that both Poch and Levy have to take responsibility for the situation we are in with regards to the lack of signings and also outgoings.

I agree to some extent, but I'd also expect Poch to be able to offer alternative targets himself.

This from The Guardian today

Tottenham’s time for significant action came and went last summer | Eni Aluko

Daniel Levy may judge success by the balance sheet but players want to win things and Mauricio Pochettino’s squad have not been given the best chance to do so at Spurs

www.theguardian.com

theguardian.com

Tottenham’s time for significant action came and went last summer | Eni Aluko
Eni Aluko

6-7 minutes

Many people are looking at Tottenham’s results this season and saying something has to change if they are to return to the level that took them to second place in the Premier League in 2017 and the Champions League final just a few months ago. I think those people are several months too late: the results that should have prompted the soul-searching and the desire for renewal happened a while ago. The writing was on the wall after their defeat by Liverpool in Madrid, and what we are seeing is confirmation that the warning signs were missed – or deliberately ignored.

Mauricio Pochettino now finds his position as manager under threat but he is not the one who should be questioned. This run of results has made people realise, once again, that Spurs would have been better off making significant changes in the summer, and it seems bizarre to blame the one person who was publicly demanding precisely that for much of last season.

They say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing while expecting different results, and there is some truth in that, but in football it is also true that you cannot keep doing the same thing while expecting the same results.

Every member of Tottenham’s starting XI for the Champions League final was in the squad who came so close to a league title two years earlier and although Tanguy Ndombélé, Giovani Lo Celso and Ryan Sessegnon have arrived the team are largely unchanged. Going into this season the same people were expecting the same players under the same manager to reach the same levels or even improve on them. It was never likely to happen.

As I look towards my future I am thinking increasingly about the sporting director role and how you introduce a winning culture and continue to drive that culture to win until you achieve it. What is vitally important is how the players feel each day coming to training. Do they think the goals they are expected to achieve are reasonable? Do they feel confident that the group of players are good enough to turn their personal ambitions into reality? At this stage most members of the Spurs squad have got to be saying no to both questions – and as soon as that happens they are sunk.

As a group they are capable of competing for the most important trophies – they have proved that – but all the evidence tells us they are not able to actually win them. Ultimately they just cannot get over the line and in their hearts they must know it. In the past five years there have been three semi-finals, two finals and significant tilts at the league title but not a single trophy. At some point the club’s senior management should have reacted to this and realised they need something extra. Instead they have tinkered around the edges.

Maybe Daniel Levy does not feel Tottenham need to win anything to be successful. Perhaps for him the evidence of success is on the balance sheet rather than in the trophy cabinet. But there is nothing better for business than winning and top players do not want to dedicate their peak years to boosting their club’s profit margins.

Players plan their careers and have long-term strategies and the best ones at Spurs will be restless. Some have made no attempt to hide it. In any squad once a few want to leave, you are in trouble. The only focus a player should have is winning for the team and it looks to me that too many have their minds elsewhere. Sure, it may be that when Harry Kane visualises the remainder of his career he sees himself staying at Spurs and being a one-club man but there will not be many with that ambition and most who dream of being a club legend in the style of John Terry or Steven Gerrard will expect to collect a few trophies along the way.

Pochettino’s loyalty to his players worked for a while but he could have taken a different approach. I was at Chelsea for six years under Emma Hayes, who is still there in her eighth season. Her managerial ethos was that if you find a method that brings success, you’ve got to find a totally different one next year. It was the opposite of the old saying, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. She was always looking for new tactics and bringing in players. Sometimes you would be certain we had enough strength in a particular position but she would still bring someone else in and it always pushed people on. There have clearly been times when Pochettino has chosen not to do that and other times when he would have liked to but was not given the chance.

What is the lifespan of a largely unchanged squad? I think it depends on what they have achieved as a unit and what remains undone. Liverpool have not significantly changed since last year but in winning 97 points and the Champions League they had enough success to feel confident they could achieve more and they are massively motivated by the chance to win the club’s first league title since 1990. Bringing in players this summer may have disrupted that balance but if they do not win the title this season it may then be the right time to freshen up things. Without new players or a recent history of winning trophies it is difficult to see what would be motivating Tottenham’s players.

There may be other factors at play. There have been rumours of personal problems between some of the players, and the 7-2 drubbing by Bayern Munich and emphatic defeat at Brighton were embarrassing enough to have added more tension. With the transfer window closed a change of manager may be the most obvious way of changing the direction of the season but it seems to me that would not deal with the cause of the problems. The right answer is not to change the manager but for those in charge to learn there is a moment to settle for what you have got and a time to rebuild, rejuvenate and push the limits. Someone at Tottenham seriously missed their moment last summer and I don’t think it was Pochettino.

The problem with most of these articles is that they don't take into account the £1B we've spent on the stadium. It's all well and good saying we should have bought another three or four players, but could we afford to spend another £100M+ over the summer? In some ways we've made a problem for ourselves by overachieving the past few seasons. Levy and Poch were originally targeting the season we moved into the stadium to break into the top four as that would be the first season we had money to invest into the squad. By raising expectations over the last few years everyone assumes that it's where we should be, and based on the players we've got it is...but replacing those players who are at the end of their time here with others of a similar standard is another thing altogether.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Apologies if this story has been posted already from elsewhere:

Tottenham make huge statement over Pochettino's future - Football365

Tottenham sending their chief scout to Argentina is ‘a clear sign’ of their faith in Mauricio Pochettino.

www.football365.com

 

[BringBack_leGin]

The thing is with Danny. He likes to buy at 2008 prices and sell at over inflated modern day prices. Nothing wrong with that if it can be done, but the days of bullying smaller PL clubs are over. Ditto for European teams.

So Modric, bought in 2008 as an upcoming creative midfielder with a big future, and Ndombele, who we bought in summer 2019 as an upcoming creative midfielder with a big future, were the same price?

I do find it strange no other team seems to have trouble offloading deadweight quite like we do.

I disagree, respectfully. How many years was Mangala at City before leaving? He had no reason to leave, he was better paid than he would be anywhere else, so saw it out until leaving for free. Eric Bailly has managed a mere 50 league appearances (inexplicably, I think he has ability), in the past 3 seasons (25 across the past two), is yet to appear this season, and is still at Utd. Rojo worse, 73 across the previous 5 seasons, with 14 only across the previous 2, and 1 so far this season. He’s still there.

Batshusyi, Moses, Zappacosta, Morata, Drinkwater, Rahmann, all unwanted high earning and difficult to shift.

Wellbeck, Elneny, Ospina, Mkhitaryan, Chambers, all unwanted, none easily (or at all) shifted.

Sturbridge, Ings, Moreno, Grujic, Clyne, Lovren, high earning, very low appearances over at least the past two seasons.

Even if we don’t pay as much as the rest of the top 6, we pay considerably more than everyone else. Ergo, why should our well paid player choose to earn less, at a worse club, why should we subsidise his remaining contract while taking a hit on a transfer fee, and why should another club pay top whack in Either wages or fee?

It’s not easy. Big clubs have deadwood because they pay a premium for players and then struggle to shift them. Every single big club.
No exception.

 

[Shadydan]

So Modric, bought in 2008 as an upcoming creative midfielder with a big future, and Ndombele, who we bought in summer 2019 as an upcoming creative midfielder with a big future, were the same price?



I disagree, respectfully. How many years was Mangala at City before leaving? He had no reason to leave, he was better paid than he would be anywhere else, so saw it out until leaving for free. Eric Bailly has managed a mere 50 league appearances (inexplicably, I think he has ability), in the past 3 seasons (25 across the past two), is yet to appear this season, and is still at Utd. Rojo worse, 73 across the previous 5 seasons, with 14 only across the previous 2, and 1 so far this season. He’s still there.

Batshusyi, Moses, Zappacosta, Morata, Drinkwater, Rahmann, all unwanted high earning and difficult to shift.

Wellbeck, Elneny, Ospina, Mkhitaryan, Chambers, all unwanted, none easily (or at all) shifted.

Sturbridge, Ings, Moreno, Grujic, Clyne, Lovren, high earning, very low appearances over at least the past two seasons.

Even if we don’t pay as much as the rest of the top 6, we pay considerably more than everyone else. Ergo, why should our well paid player choose to earn less, at a worse club, why should we subsidise his remaining contract while taking a hit on a transfer fee, and why should another club pay top whack in Either wages or fee?

It’s not easy. Big clubs have deadwood because they pay a premium for players and then struggle to shift them. Every single big club.
No exception.

Some myths busted right there...

 

[wrd]

So Modric, bought in 2008 as an upcoming creative midfielder with a big future, and Ndombele, who we bought in summer 2019 as an upcoming creative midfielder with a big future, were the same price?



I disagree, respectfully. How many years was Mangala at City before leaving? He had no reason to leave, he was better paid than he would be anywhere else, so saw it out until leaving for free. Eric Bailly has managed a mere 50 league appearances (inexplicably, I think he has ability), in the past 3 seasons (25 across the past two), is yet to appear this season, and is still at Utd. Rojo worse, 73 across the previous 5 seasons, with 14 only across the previous 2, and 1 so far this season. He’s still there.

Batshusyi, Moses, Zappacosta, Morata, Drinkwater, Rahmann, all unwanted high earning and difficult to shift.

Wellbeck, Elneny, Ospina, Mkhitaryan, Chambers, all unwanted, none easily (or at all) shifted.

Sturbridge, Ings, Moreno, Grujic, Clyne, Lovren, high earning, very low appearances over at least the past two seasons.

Even if we don’t pay as much as the rest of the top 6, we pay considerably more than everyone else. Ergo, why should our well paid player choose to earn less, at a worse club, why should we subsidise his remaining contract while taking a hit on a transfer fee, and why should another club pay top whack in Either wages or fee?

It’s not easy. Big clubs have deadwood because they pay a premium for players and then struggle to shift them. Every single big club.
No exception.

Jesus fucking christ... can't argue with any of that, I guess the ones I find strange are Eriksen and Alderweireld, especially Alderweireld with that release clause that not a single team in the world was keen at that fee, Eriksen that nobody seemed to try whatsoever although that might be because he told his agent to bat away all approaches, I'm surprised after 2 seasons nobody fancies Rose either. Obviously based on what you've said the reason I find it strange is because I'm more invested in Spurs.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Jesus fucking christ... can't argue with any of that, I guess the ones I find strange are Eriksen and Alderweireld, especially Alderweireld with that release clause that not a single team in the world was keen at that fee, Eriksen that nobody seemed to try whatsoever although that might be because he told his agent to bat away all approaches, I'm surprised after 2 seasons nobody fancies Rose either. Obviously based on what you've said the reason I find it strange is because I'm more invested in Spurs.

Oh absolutely, true of all of us, the mindset of a football supporter is a myopic one. I just happen to be a sad fuck who’ll spend half an hour researching something to argue my point, but quite often I’ll disagree with someone, quote them, begin my investigations and ultimately realise the facts don’t back me up, so delete what I’ve typed.

Eriksen and Toby, I’d imagine that they’re both in it for that bumper final ‘big move’. Nice signing on fee, huge salaries for 4 odd years, then back to Ajax or something.

Rose, I think that his unpredictable approach to media might have made him unappealing to the clubs he feels are of required quality. Note: Watford are bottom of the league.

 

[Chimbo!]

Having thought about this more, I’m coming to the conclusion that no one is really to blame for our dodgy start to the Season. Everyone is doing the best in the circumstances. Poch has not been backed how he should. And our team has gone stale and become unmotivated. But with the stadium investment we are limited in what we can do to resolve that. Sometimes bad stuff happens but there’s no single reason or person to blame. Life is complicated. Sometimes you just have to persevere through.

 

[DJS]

Kinda weird Poch is supposed to be trying to offload Dier as he was one of his star boys.

And its not like he’s that old either, strange how he has crapped out really.

 

[dagraham]

Kinda weird Poch is supposed to be trying to offload Dier as he was one of his star boys.

And its not like he’s that old either, strange how he has crapped out really.

In his book he says he thinks he’s a CB and Dier sees his future as a DM. You can understand why though considering it was Poch who played him there in the first place.

So I’m guessing that’s where the issue may be. If that’s the case though and Poch doesn’t rate him anymore and considering Wanyama is clearly broken it makes it even more of a massive oversight that we have not prioritised buying another DM.

It not as if this is a situation that has only just sprung up on us.

 

[yankspurs]

Kinda weird Poch is supposed to be trying to offload Dier as he was one of his star boys.

And its not like he’s that old either, strange how he has crapped out really.

Where are you getting that from? Ally Gold had him as one who could benefit from Poch dropping players in an article earlier this week

 

[yankspurs]

Jesus fucking christ... can't argue with any of that, I guess the ones I find strange are Eriksen and Alderweireld, especially Alderweireld with that release clause that not a single team in the world was keen at that fee, Eriksen that nobody seemed to try whatsoever although that might be because he told his agent to bat away all approaches, I'm surprised after 2 seasons nobody fancies Rose either. Obviously based on what you've said the reason I find it strange is because I'm more invested in Spurs.

Nobody fancies Rose aside for the fact he was literally at Watford this summer until someone pulled out last minute

 

[yankspurs]

Oh absolutely, true of all of us, the mindset of a football supporter is a myopic one. I just happen to be a sad fuck who’ll spend half an hour researching something to argue my point, but quite often I’ll disagree with someone, quote them, begin my investigations and ultimately realise the facts don’t back me up, so delete what I’ve typed.

Eriksen and Toby, I’d imagine that they’re both in it for that bumper final ‘big move’. Nice signing on fee, huge salaries for 4 odd years, then back to Ajax or something.

Rose, I think that his unpredictable approach to media might have made him unappealing to the clubs he feels are of required quality. Note: Watford are bottom of the league.

Oh come on. Nobody would have thought Watford would be bottom of the league this year. When they were in for Rose, they were upper to mid table.

 

[vuzp]

Having thought about this more, I’m coming to the conclusion that no one is really to blame for our dodgy start to the Season. Everyone is doing the best in the circumstances. Poch has not been backed how he should. And our team has gone stale and become unmotivated. But with the stadium investment we are limited in what we can do to resolve that. Sometimes bad stuff happens but there’s no single reason or person to blame. Life is complicated. Sometimes you just have to persevere through.

i know what you are saying but it really drives me nuts to see the word unmotivated when it is connected to a professional footballer or team and more so when it is about Spurs.
how can anyone getting what they are paid be unmotivated?? yes we all get our bad days and we have been in a rut but this is incredible what is happening this season.

 

[DJS]

Where are you getting that from? Ally Gold had him as one who could benefit from Poch dropping players in an article earlier this week

From the article thats being discussed?

 

[rez9000]

i know what you are saying but it really drives me nuts to see the word unmotivated when it is connected to a professional footballer or team and more so when it is about Spurs.
how can anyone getting what they are paid be unmotivated?? yes we all get our bad days and we have been in a rut but this is incredible what is happening this season.

I used to think the same thing about players and their salaries. It seems like a very obvious equation.

But then I went on a management course as part of my job and we looked at a study that showed that when it comes to money as a motivating factor, it's only the quest for more money that motivates us in our jobs and not the money we're currently receiving (except for a short period when we first get a bump in pay). Very soon after, whatever our current salary is, it stops being a motivating factor.

And it also showed that the quest for more money isn't the biggest motivator, either. A sense of being valued is more important, apparently.

Just to note, I'm not making any suggestions re Poch's valuing of players - I'm speaking strictly in terms of what studies of working life suggest.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Oh come on. Nobody would have thought Watford would be bottom of the league this year. When they were in for Rose, they were upper to mid table.

Be that as it may, you think Rose wants to go to Watford given that (paraphrasing) a) he knows his worth and will make sure he gets it, b) will definitely move back up north and c) doesn’t want to have to google new signings (I believe not a player was signed for a transfer fee, or at least a significant one, this summer)?

 

[kungfugrip]

In his book he says he thinks he’s a CB and Dier sees his future as a DM. You can understand why though considering it was Poch who played him there in the first place.

So I’m guessing that’s where the issue may be. If that’s the case though and Poch doesn’t rate him anymore and considering Wanyama is clearly broken it makes it even more of a massive oversight that we have not prioritised buying another DM.

It not as if this is a situation that has only just sprung up on us.

That book was written three years ago....a lifetime in football, and Dier doesn't look like recapturing that form anytime soon....if ever.

 

[ackie]

you do realise, we'll probably be the first team to beat the scouse ima say 2-0

Wish I had your confidence