The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[dudu]

Our form in 2019 puts us on course for 40 league points.

I'd say that goes deeper than bad form and certainly opens the door to the idea that Poch could indeed be mediocre.

Our form is currently mediocre but we still finished 4th in the country last season and a Finalists in the CL. If that is your yardstick for mediocre then you are forgetting or have no idea what mediocre is.

The whole 2019 form thing just doesn't mean anything to me. Seasons aren't played over calendar years and form over those periods are skewed because of so so many factors. Our form last season saw us finish in 4th. Our form this season, so far, has us in 6th.

Something needs to change for sure. New management brings some potential positives but also, im sure, a tonne of potential negatives at this stage too. I don't know what the answer is but getting angry and making things up is surely not the answer.

 

[soflapaul]

Well look, we're only working with half the equation to work on the formula but Trix has alluded to the other half of it, which is that the players have pretty much told him their frustration with the formation and how we are setting up. So what I'm suggesting is that he eats some humble pie and that making the adjustments will get the squad back on side, by stop being stubborn, holding hands up and admitting you've been making errors, well for me personally I'd respect a leader who did that and I'd hope that gives them the motivation to kick on as a unit.

You couldn't be more right. Reading between the lines, Poch seems to have removed himself from the collective and the players are reacting to that. Until he gets them in a we are in it together mode, they will struggle to make it work

 

[wrd]

Toby
Jan
Eriksen
Rose
Aurier
Dier
Lucas
Is my guess

Replace Moura with Dele and you got it I reckon, although Moura looked like he was lacking confidence last night.

 

[Phomesy]

I might end up getting sent off twice in 10 mins

I'd still take that over Serge

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

It appears that there are people who seem to think that it can only be one thing or the other, that Poch is a ‘charlatan’ who got lucky or that we are operating at a level that we have no right to be at and without Poch we are destined for mid-table mediocrity.

Actually, he has done a fantastic job for us, and he brought us to heights that we hadn’t seen for many decades before him. But we are on a negative trajectory. We are making numerous mistakes in a single game that back in 2017 we wouldn’t have seen over the course of a number of weeks. The squad is a mess, largely due to players running down contracts. There is a negative atmosphere. Poch hasn’t created that on his own, but he has exacerbated it. We need big changes, and if he can drive those then brilliant. But to me at this stage, it looks like he can’t or doesn’t have the will to drive the changes. If he stays, then he will have to completely reset his mentality, which I think is unlikely.

Spot on.

 

[Rob]

Wait so which one is it?

Has he invested heavily and built a great squad, or has he massively overachieved with no investment?

I can't keep up.

We've invested WELL, not "heavily". We've then turned those signings into much more valuable players.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

2-7 first time in our history, I have to admit I am struggling a bit to get over this result. We have been around a long time and I couldn't give a shit how good Bayern are, we have played a lot of good teams when we were much worse and never have we been fucked at home like last night. The more I think on it I just think he has to go.
The way he has been talking during his press conferences, the players not wanting to stay at the club and sign contract extensions even the fact he seems to have got the investment he wanted this year, along with the amazing facilities the club now has it is just not good enough. If we can get someone of allegri's calibre we should do it imo I struggle to see poch getting out of this ?

100% agree.

 

[mike_l]

Did you popped up after 2014. Because before that we were drenched in it for ages.

It's a lot easier to accept being shit when you're fielding a side including Austin, Nethercott, Sinton and Calderwood, less so now we have good players throughout.

For some reason though more than half on here prefer to believe that the entire squad is shite but the manager is great...

 

[Rout-Ledge]

Would anyone disagree with this...Poch’s second season (15/16) was better than his first (14/15). His third (16/17) was better than his second. His fourth (17/18) was worse than his third. His fifth (18/19) was worse than his fourth - CL run notwithstanding. If so, what does that suggest? And how is this season shaping up?

 

[Stamford]

it’s ok to accept that he did a great job to get us from where we were to where we are now, yet still see that he is now the problem.

you can’t re-write or belittle what he has done for us, he’s just not, in my opinion, going to be able to turn this round.

Spot on. He's done an incredible job in his time but he's now not the man to lead us to glory. I have no doubt he will go on and be successful elsewhere but it's not going to be here

 

[Primativ]

Spot on. He's done an incredible job in his time but he's now not the man to lead us to glory. I have no doubt he will go on and be successful elsewhere but it's not going to be here

Poch has done a very good job in some ways as manager here, but he’s never been the messiah some hoped and thought he was.

That’s all there is to it. He’s now a busted flush and we need to take a new direction. I loved Poch the person as much as anyone, but he’s never been an elite level trophy winning manager and that’s what we now need.

 

[bubble07]

both managers play very boring football, Mourinho has divided every club he has been at in recent times. Not sure either manager is the answer, even short term.

I was all for no trophies if playing well but we aren't even playing well so I'm all for a but pf dull football for a cup or two

 

[jurgen]

"No club maintains a relentless upward trajectory" We have been on a downward trajectory for something over a year now - this trend isn't going to stop anytime soon with Poch.

"Stick with Poch and keep him at all costs, he will get us moving forward again soon." This sound more like blind faith than optimism - either way, it's flawed.

Right now he is delivering a shower of shit that he can't even comprehend and you honestly think that he got us to the final of the CL? Luck and ridiculous opportune moments got us there and big doses of it too. Poch was merely a passenger at those pivotal moments. We were soundly beaten by Ajax at our ground in the first leg and by the grace of Moura we sneaked in at the very last. Poch can't take that much credit for getting to the CL final!

Poch can’t take credit for CL final run but can take the flak for players giving up last night? Sounds like a sweet ride for some of our underperformers..

 

[shelfboy68]

I'd still take that over Serge

Fuck me you are desperate mate.

 

[SpursFox]

The idea that it will cost to get rid of Poch is one that will be playing heavily on Levy's mind of course. Not so long ago he could have charged someone like Madrid a lot of money to take him from us, Man U even more, and now he'd be looking at something approaching the opposite. However, it could have a greater cost for us in the long run. Miss the top four or even the top six and drop out of the group stage of the Champions League will be a hit for a start. But also if a new manager can convince at least a couple of the disillusioned players to stay and sign new contracts then thats a huge win, not least financially. No chance we get rid of almost an entire team and replace them and move on in anything like a reasonable timeframe, even if we do have money to throw at it. We can't let the majority of them walk away for free. I know we aren't totally changing the score on that front, but even one of the guys who is out the door changing his tune and the rest at least banding together a bit more under a new voice could be crucial. I believe it needs to be a big, respected name as well. This is no disrespect to Poch. Not at all. I really wish this could have been the next five year chapter, and maybe it still could, but its looking far from that at the moment.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

This. Klopps squad is good but it's still got areas that could be improved. The difference between them and us comes mostly down to mentality, desire and the fact they all know their roles inside out. They play the same way week in week out, to
a point that everything they do is second nature.

1,000,000% this. I said this a few months back and I also said it when Liverpool got klopp that he is the level of manager we need. Poch is no where near klopp and pep.

 

[jurgen]

Plus if he didn’t play those 6-7 wantaways (who are the best players in their positions we have) he’d be getting rinsed for putting out weak teams. Unfortunately some quality alternatives are still injured.

Those players should be a bit more fucking professional shouldn’t they?

 

[Metalhead]

The thing is what is long term...5/6/7 years? Things like that rarely work nowadays in the modern era, we have a squad now which is primed to win things, we have the stadium, revenue is increasing, we are paying higher wages than before so we are seen as a big club who should be competing therefore I think he next move is gonna be a short term fix.

Plus how long is Kane gonna wait for he's entering his peak years and won't be here much longer if we don't pick up any trophies or show any signs of progression.

I'm not even convinced that Poch is leaving at the moment.

 

[JAYSTAR]

This. Klopps squad is good but it's still got areas that could be improved. The difference between them and us comes mostly down to mentality, desire and the fact they all know their roles inside out. They play the same way week in week out, to
a point that everything they do is second nature.

And they play a system that covers the full backs going fwd. We don't and never have. Sandro and Dembele were ridiculously overworked compensating for our fullbacks playing so far forward. Now Dembele's gone we've still not realised how much we need a mobile, ball playing CDM / holding midfielder, but are leaking goals like a sieve. City can only attack the way they do because of the set up and system behind the front three. Same with Liverpool. We leave an aging Toby and Verts high up in the centre circle and hope they will handle whatever attack comes their way. Its crazy. Poch must be coaching our full backs to stay high up the pitch and as a result they look shocking because they get overlapped and embarrassed repeatedly.

 

[wrd]

Poch has done a very good job in some ways as manager here, but he’s never been the messiah some hoped and thought he was.

That’s all there is to it. He’s now a busted flush and we need to take a new direction. I loved Poch the person as much as anyone, but he’s never been an elite level trophy winning manager and that’s what we now need.

I think one fear would be what if the players were the problem all along and we let go of the best thing that has happened to us and we're stuck with a lesser manager and these players. I don't think that suddenly Aurier and Rose are going to turn into top defenders, I don't think a lot of the players are suddenly going to turn it on in the same way Chelsea players can and can't depending on their manager. So I think for me I want to ride the storm out and see what happens in Jan, see what happens in the summer and if it's the same issue then there's only 1 conclusion. However I'm fully aware that is a long amount of time to ride a storm out and I'm under no illusion that results against Colchester and last night severely weaken the support he will get to ride the storm out in such a way.