The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 11th July 2013

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mpickard2087

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To be linked heavily with lots of players and end up with only one signed with our previous is incredibly frustrating.

Yes it's only 11 days etc., but we hear the same thing every bloody window, soon it'll be "We've a week until the first game" then next thing you know it's deadline day and we're still haggling and fannying about lacking the improvements we need. It's happened far too often..

I hope to God (or whatever) that this is the window we finally sort it out, but I fail to see how anyone can't understand why I'd feel frustrated at recent failings with our recent history of brinkmanship, big talk and little real follow through (primarily with the striker we all crave or should at the very least).

It's also incredibly shitty to then have your opinion spammed for the hell of it when you are a fan who wants more for the club and thinks some meaningful (and EARLY) business is more than well overdue at this stage.

How many times do we forgive the same fucking mistakes? Clinging to hope window after window grates a little after a while.
We obviously though do go for deals early in the window when we can and feel they are good value. There are numerous examples. This summer as well we have tried to show ambition and move quickly. Paulinho is done, but with Villa and the Croatian kids but haven't been able to get the deals done, it happens and we will see if we move quickly for alternatives.

Like it or not though, unless you are a team with money (and even they can wait till the last day to make purchases) the market just seems to dictate that a lot of business is done late in the window. Selling clubs often don't drop the prices till the last minute or even make players available until then (because they eventually need to take any reasonable funds to buy their own players), buying clubs wait because they don't have and endless pot of cash and want value. It always happens whether we like it or not.

The sooner the transfer window is closed before the season starts, the better in my opinion.
 

eddiev14

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What on earth is going on in here tonight?! It's like an episode of Loose Women or something...

Anyway, back to the ITK, the Bernard news is good so I hope our growing Brazilian contingent can get in his ear and tell him to come.

Earlier in the summer I said that I would rather Leandro than Benteke, mainly because (deep down) I couldn't see Levy spanking the dollar bills to get CB. That said, it sounds very much like the player has his heart set on us and that will evidently strengthen our hand in the negotiation.

Re Thudd, I've always had a soft spot for him (no, not his belly!) and wish him luck. If he had natural stamina he would have been one of the best CMs in the league. Will miss him!
 

ItsBoris

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We obviously though do go for deals early in the window when we can and feel they are good value. There are numerous examples. This summer as well we have tried to show ambition and move quickly. Paulinho is done, but with Villa and the Croatian kids but haven't been able to get the deals done, it happens and we will see if we move quickly for alternatives.

Like it or not though, unless you are a team with money (and even they can wait till the last day to make purchases) the market just seems to dictate that a lot of business is done late in the window. Selling clubs often don't drop the prices till the last minute or even make players available until then (because they eventually need to take any reasonable funds to buy their own players), buying clubs wait because they don't have and endless pot of cash and want value. It always happens whether we like it or not.

The sooner the transfer window is closed before the season starts, the better in my opinion.

Let me explain my perspective in regard to the frustration Paolo is channeling.

1.) We've only signed 1 player which I guess is frustrating enough, but we also haven't sold any players yet as far as I'm aware. We have probably 8-10 players that need to be sold to clear up space for wages and provide some money for transfers but we haven't seen any of that yet.

2.) " it happens and we will see if we move quickly for alternatives." I think many people are saying "what alternatives?"

3.) Most importantly intuition. Does anyone legitimately believe that by the end of the transfer window, our team will be completed? Or will there still be one or more glaring holes in it? Because if, like last season, we leave our team with several obvious weak spots, we will certainly miss out on top 4 yet again. We need a team worthy of a title challenge - it is a striker, a wide forward, and a left back away from being ready for that (assuming we get quality players in all 3 positions). We can say almost certainly that our team will not be ready by the first match of the season, but will it be by the time the window closes? I have my doubts personally.

This transfer window feels too similar to past ones to make me feel optimistic that it will be successful.
 

Snarfalicious

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The only real complaint I have to voice towards any one of our front office members is the lack of sales. I understand trying to get the best money for our outgoing players, but haggle for the guys who actually have some value. Arguing over players like Parker, Adebayor or Huddlestone seems pretty fickle. All of these players have a reasonable transfer fee either due to age, wages, injury history, poor form or some combination of the aforementioned list.

Save the real negotiating for players such as Rose, Falque, Livermore, etc. The ones who you want to battle for decent sell-on % clauses and also quality fees given their age, potential and possibly more widespread interest.

That's my only qualm at this point and it's a pretty minor one.
 

spurs9

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Let me explain my perspective in regard to the frustration Paolo is channeling.

1.) We've only signed 1 player which I guess is frustrating enough, but we also haven't sold any players yet as far as I'm aware. We have probably 8-10 players that need to be sold to clear up space for wages and provide some money for transfers but we haven't seen any of that yet.

2.) " it happens and we will see if we move quickly for alternatives." I think many people are saying "what alternatives?"

3.) Most importantly intuition. Does anyone legitimately believe that by the end of the transfer window, our team will be completed? Or will there still be one or more glaring holes in it? Because if, like last season, we leave our team with several obvious weak spots, we will certainly miss out on top 4 yet again. We need a team worthy of a title challenge - it is a striker, a wide forward, and a left back away from being ready for that (assuming we get quality players in all 3 positions). We can say almost certainly that our team will not be ready by the first match of the season, but will it be by the time the window closes? I have my doubts personally.

This transfer window feels too similar to past ones to make me feel optimistic that it will be successful.
Look at are rivals, Money bag City have signed a two players, Chelsea have signed 3 squad players, Arsenal have signed 1 youngster and Man UTD have lost their most successful manager ever, replaced him with a guy who has never won a trophy and signed a young right back.

In regards to sales, apparently Hudd fee has been agreed & we are waiting for an expected bid's for Parker. We can only sell players if someone places a bid.

Are we really doing that bad?
 

Deuce23

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You haven't been around long Deuce. But I've seen that you have a good sense of humor. I want you to stick around because you could be a good addition.

But in two posts in this thread you have used straw men arguments for American players (why Freddy Adu would even be mentioned here is beyond me)....it makes me suspect you're Sam's Army and not one of us. And it's okay if you're not one of us. We have members that support other clubs/institutions. We had Egyptian fans during the Mido/Ghaly years (and they had the best illegal feeds). We had Croatian fans during the Modric/Kranjcar/Charlie years. We've had a lot of new Americans over the past 12 months of Deuce/Methuselah.

But they only survive if they are like Teola65 (sp?) and show a bit of respect and discretion. And taking a pot shots at quite a number of our players when they weren't part of the argument to begin with is going to win you no points for Dempsey. In fact, that comment will actually counteract any good vibe my posts about Dempsey provided.

And I worked very hard to shed some light on him.

Even if I am wrong and you are a new Yid and will be one of us forever, you will still need to grow a thick skin over your obviously favorite player. The only players that don't get shit are retired. Even the great Ledley King got worse than Dempsey has gotten at times. And he was better than Bale, Berbatov and Modric put together.* Nature of the beast. Defend him by all means. But do it smartly or you will only do more harm than good.

And honestly, I really hope you stick around either way. Because I value humor more than anything and you've already shown that to be a strength.

Cheers

* I mean if they were literally put together Dr. Moreau style. That monster would be ugly and useless but would have a creepy obsession with squirrels.
There's no shake hands smiley so I'm just going to include this one :snaphappy: to preserve probably the nicest way anyone's ever called my opinion worthless. *shakehandssmiley*

I've always admired Tottenham for their style and utter insanity for what passed for tactics in the Redknapp era, but having one of your own in the mix totally magnifies these problems and all of a sudden I don't enjoy it so much anymore! Totally roundabout way to articulate this strange feeling that I think is called "caring".
 

arunspurs

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Look at are rivals, Money bag City have signed a two players, Chelsea have signed 3 squad players, Arsenal have signed 1 youngster and Man UTD have lost their most successful manager ever, replaced him with a guy who has never won a trophy and signed a young right back.

In regards to sales, apparently Hudd fee has been agreed & we are waiting for an expected bid's for Parker. We can only sell players if someone places a bid.

Are we really doing that bad?
Adding to your point - we have let go of Gallas, Bently - that would save atleast 100k in wages.
Before end of the window, I can see Parker, Gomes, Hudd, Livermore (loan probably), Bae or Rose off. Other transfer listed plaers are Ade, Dempsey. So, we are going to save huge amount in wages.

One of the reasons, outgoings are slow is because - no PL manager is buying players from PL. You see Southampton, Swansea, Sunderland, City, Us, Liverpool - all are buying from outside. So, there is simply no cash flow happening with in PL. And the new clubs like Palace, Hull simply dont have money to buy - they dip into championship.

I am sure we will sell players & save atleast 300k a week in wages. Most of that should go to new signings.

As for as Incoming, DL aways look for the value - thats how he is. There is no choice than to trust him and hope he delivers in time for AVB to work with in pre-season.
 

spud

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There's no shake hands smiley so I'm just going to include this one :snaphappy: to preserve probably the nicest way anyone's ever called my opinion worthless. *shakehandssmiley*
That, sir, is probably one of the funniest, friendliest sentences it has ever been my pleasure to read on this forum.

I've always admired Tottenham for their style and utter insanity for what passed for tactics in the Redknapp era, but having one of your own in the mix totally magnifies these problems and all of a sudden I don't enjoy it so much anymore! Totally roundabout way to articulate this strange feeling that I think is called "caring".
Welcome to purgatory.

If you ever think that all of the angst is too much for you, I can assure you that it is all worth it for how you feel when we actually win something.
 

taidgh

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I am American. But I have this cool app that translates U.S. lingo into coherent arguments.

In my plea for tolerance on Paolo, I originally entered

"My diabetes is smarter than you bitches and imma gonna get my lark and run over you if you don't shuts up and leaves him be, y'all."

In my first Dempsey post, I merely type the following into the app.

"Dempsey yo! Full tilt!"

And it came out with that diatribe. I'll be honest, I don't know what at least 14 of the words in that post mean.

But it was the best 99 cents I ever spent.
you're an absolute loon. and i don't mean that in a bad way. when i'm scrolling posts, i sometimes stop and think...'ah this is a happy post.' i check and invariably it is.
 

HappySpur

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There's no shake hands smiley so I'm just going to include this one :snaphappy: to preserve probably the nicest way anyone's ever called my opinion worthless. *shakehandssmiley*

I've always admired Tottenham for their style and utter insanity for what passed for tactics in the Redknapp era, but having one of your own in the mix totally magnifies these problems and all of a sudden I don't enjoy it so much anymore! Totally roundabout way to articulate this strange feeling that I think is called "caring".

In no way was I saying your opinion is worthless. If I am reading the response right, you're not a Yid, but you like us well enough and having Dempsey makes it worth your time. And now sometimes it's a bit more than well wishing.

So that's great. If we get lucky, maybe the clubs pulls you in. We hope so. No hard feelings if not. As long as you don't take to Arsenal or Chelsea instead....then hard feelings definitely :D

But having somebody without the emotional baggage is sometimes a fantastic foil for any set of fans, if they are open to it.

So please, continue to post. What you have to say is definitely of value. I really don't like Liverpool at all, yet Teola, who I mentioned earlier is a Scouser who is a very good poster. I think desilina is Ajax and he can be such a helpful poster. And I'm not sure about Vedi and Demi, our Croatians, but I don't think they aren't much different from you in that they like the Croatian players and are well-wishers for us in general. They are fantastic posters

And if nothing else we need people to keep us honest about players. Too often people get some extreme opinion of a player and won't let it go and will spend endless energy using every mistake to invoke confirmation bias. And dismiss every good thing as anomalies.

It's exhausting and many of us just don't have the heart to counter them. The haters seem to be unbreakable, which isn't admirable. It's literally the biggest insult I can think of. It took one rash comment to just make me wonder if I need to return to my skeptic and science forums. They aren't nearly as funny as the people that make this place amazing, but there is rarely black and white cognitive disorders. Trying to be thoughtful and measured is usually very rewarding here. Sometimes it is like sorting sand with tweezers. Discussion and debate isn't that if it's nothing but a contest of how unyielding one can be. And after Paulinho and now Dempsey, I am out of the player business.

I can do it for Levy because that's a question of facts vs fiction. But I can't do it for anybody else. It's all a study in neurology. So fight the good fight for Dempsey. Hopefully you will have better luck.

I was a Revs season ticket holder when he first came through, so I have a soft spot for him. I won't claim to be a fan like you are, but I want him to do well.
 

Bobbins

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I am American. But I have this cool app that translates U.S. lingo into coherent arguments.

In my plea for tolerance on Paolo, I originally entered

"My diabetes is smarter than you bitches and imma gonna get my lark and run over you if you don't shuts up and leaves him be, y'all."

In my first Dempsey post, I merely type the following into the app.

"Dempsey yo! Full tilt!"

And it came out with that diatribe. I'll be honest, I don't know what at least 14 of the words in that post mean.

But it was the best 99 cents I ever spent.
Fucking hell, that might just be the single funniest thing I've ever read.
 

ItsBoris

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Look at are rivals, Money bag City have signed a two players, Chelsea have signed 3 squad players, Arsenal have signed 1 youngster and Man UTD have lost their most successful manager ever, replaced him with a guy who has never won a trophy and signed a young right back.

In regards to sales, apparently Hudd fee has been agreed & we are waiting for an expected bid's for Parker. We can only sell players if someone places a bid.

Are we really doing that bad?

Chelsea have a bunch of top quality players coming into their squad, Van Ginkel and Schurrle are both very good, but De Bruyne and Lukaku as well.

These clubs also all finished above us last season, and both City and Chelsea now have better managers than before. So the top 3 are moving further out of reach. Also Arsenal usually manage to balance their team toward the end of the transfer window, they may have weak areas but they always manage to get players who can play and pass the ball and string everything together for them. Even someone like Arteta was a shrewd and important purchase for them. Despite losing their best players they keep managing to finish 1 point above us which is incredibly annoying and I just wish we would fucking spend the money to make sure we finish in the top 4 finally, it would be worth it. Rather than leave ourselves with glaring deficiencies and ruing our missed chances yet again.
 

andyp8080

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right......off the the airport to catch a plane for a stag do......keep that ITK going into the RO lads so i can check it easily

much love x
 

Mullers

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I know you have a penchant for a argument/fight when it comes to players you like/dislike. I'm not going to get dragged into it. And at this moment I'm going to put you on ignore for a day or so, just so I don't end up giving into the growing ill-feelings. I value you as a poster too much. But I won't forget that you thought you were arguing Jenas with an intellectual-inferior. That was a not your best move.
I gave this a WTF rating for that bit in bold. Sorry but that's a DC boy tactic right there.
 

dudu

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When you look at the amount Swansea and Southampton are chucking about and then compare the prize money from league position, ticket prices and ground capacity, I can't help wondering why there hasn't been any money to spend.
by us? why does 17m not count?
 

dudu

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The one thing people always dismiss with Dempsey is that he is not a quitter. And the reason he pops up with goals at good times is due to this "never say die" attitude

That's a valuable thing for any club to have. But especially for us. I wasn't around for Burkinshaw, so we've always had a loser complex during my time. And I watched it year after year as we found ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

That being said, I think that the shift isn't Dempsey. I think it's partly Bale and the absolute faith that the rest of the team has that he will get it done. But mostly I think it's AVB. So if we sell him, we don't resort to old ways.

But if we keep him, it's a good quality to have.

As for technical ability.......he's a poor white kid from Texas. There is a difference in being a caravan park kid in Holland like VDV and being one in Texas like Dempsey. The fact that he could come from that background and make it at the highest level is one of the highest testaments to him as an athlete. Had he been born in a place where the sporting education in football was like most of the world, he would have had much better teaching and his technical ability would be different. But he didn't. And here's where the poverty thing comes into play. Texas is about American football, no doubt. But there is good football instruction in the state too. And he had a chance to join an elite academy in Dallas. But due to financial difficulties and the death of his sister that training got interrupted.

So for his haters, cut him some slack on the technical argument. I think 99% of the people on this board had access to better footballing education than he did. Yet he's the one living the dream.

And please don't think I am soft on him because we share a nationality. When it comes to football, I trade in on my very thin Dutch heritage and follow Holland. If somebody better comes along, I would sell him in an instant. If a shitty Dutch player came along with a peg leg and was blind, I'd probably want them more. But I have a fucking hell of a lot of respect for his story. It deserves respect.
f'ing THANK YOU!!!
 
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