The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 11th July 2013

Status
Not open for further replies.

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
43,824
I would consider it sniffing, we live in a world of air that we sniff to smell, maybe there's a different scientific term for sharks as they live in water, however it is essentially the same.
Finally some 'in the nose'.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
The one thing people always dismiss with Dempsey is that he is not a quitter. And the reason he pops up with goals at good times is due to this "never say die" attitude

That's a valuable thing for any club to have. But especially for us. I wasn't around for Burkinshaw, so we've always had a loser complex during my time. And I watched it year after year as we found ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

That being said, I think that the shift isn't Dempsey. I think it's partly Bale and the absolute faith that the rest of the team has that he will get it done. But mostly I think it's AVB. So if we sell him, we don't resort to old ways.

But if we keep him, it's a good quality to have.

As for technical ability.......he's a poor white kid from Texas. There is a difference in being a caravan park kid in Holland like VDV and being one in Texas like Dempsey. The fact that he could come from that background and make it at the highest level is one of the highest testaments to him as an athlete. Had he been born in a place where the sporting education in football was like most of the world, he would have had much better teaching and his technical ability would be different. But he didn't. And here's where the poverty thing comes into play. Texas is about American football, no doubt. But there is good football instruction in the state too. And he had a chance to join an elite academy in Dallas. But due to financial difficulties and the death of his sister that training got interrupted.

So for his haters, cut him some slack on the technical argument. I think 99% of the people on this board had access to better footballing education than he did. Yet he's the one living the dream.

And please don't think I am soft on him because we share a nationality. When it comes to football, I trade in on my very thin Dutch heritage and follow Holland. If somebody better comes along, I would sell him in an instant. If a shitty Dutch player came along with a peg leg and was blind, I'd probably want them more. But I have a fucking hell of a lot of respect for his story. It deserves respect.

I'm sorry HS, but this is sentimental claptrap. You think kids from Africa are coming from better opportunity ?

His technique is poor because he comes from Texas ? Seriously ? Darren Bent had shit technique and he was from Tooting.
 

ChristianBaler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
1,862
I've said all along; I'd be surprised if we would sold Clint as he has helped accelerate our growth in the US. Maybe now we've got more exposure in the states and the ever growing presence of Bale; we've deemed his marketability not a necessity any more?
Levy has hardly given players 3 year deals as he likes to sell most players with 2 years left to gain maximum value. I think people are putting too much emphasis on Dempsey's ties to the states and how its going to make Spurs more popular in the US. To me, he either gets sold this summer or January because he wont be signing a new deal or get offered one anytime soon imo.
 

JerryGarcia

Dark star crashes...
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
8,055
I think he's obviously going to take time to settle in. But I do believe he's a realistic option as our LF in the 4-3-3. He's got the size, strength on the ball, decent pace, quality dribbling and produces a quality final ball/shot.

That being said, I do believe he's a Starting XI player if he does acclimate to the EPL. It's always guesswork when a player comes from a inferior league, but he's got all of the physical tools to lean towards him becoming a good player. I'm pretty certain he will do well for us.

I also mentioned that I wouldn't completely rule him out as that utility player that can function in the front 3 positions in a 4-3-3 and all 4 of the forward positions in a 4-2-3-1.
He looks pretty confident in his own ability too, that will help him big time if he moves here. It's an important characteristic when you move to a bigger league (or so I would imagine). I'm only basing that on the little I've seen of him but he doesn't look afraid to have a go or try something creative.
 

HappySpur

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
7,666
Bitching about Dempsey's technical side is hilarious to me when you've got Diagonal Dawson, Pirouette Parker, a blockhead like Walker, a mentally weak Adebayor, and a selfish Defoe on the side as well. Lennon is barely better than running fast in a straight line sometimes. Yet the guy who scores key goals and works hard despite reactionary criticism and overwhelming negativity is the guy getting the grief.

You haven't been around long Deuce. But I've seen that you have a good sense of humor. I want you to stick around because you could be a good addition.

But in two posts in this thread you have used straw men arguments for American players (why Freddy Adu would even be mentioned here is beyond me)....it makes me suspect you're Sam's Army and not one of us. And it's okay if you're not one of us. We have members that support other clubs/institutions. We had Egyptian fans during the Mido/Ghaly years (and they had the best illegal feeds). We had Croatian fans during the Modric/Kranjcar/Charlie years. We've had a lot of new Americans over the past 12 months of Deuce/Methuselah.

But they only survive if they are like Teola65 (sp?) and show a bit of respect and discretion. And taking a pot shots at quite a number of our players when they weren't part of the argument to begin with is going to win you no points for Dempsey. In fact, that comment will actually counteract any good vibe my posts about Dempsey provided.

And I worked very hard to shed some light on him.

Even if I am wrong and you are a new Yid and will be one of us forever, you will still need to grow a thick skin over your obviously favorite player. The only players that don't get shit are retired. Even the great Ledley King got worse than Dempsey has gotten at times. And he was better than Bale, Berbatov and Modric put together.* Nature of the beast. Defend him by all means. But do it smartly or you will only do more harm than good.

And honestly, I really hope you stick around either way. Because I value humor more than anything and you've already shown that to be a strength.

Cheers

* I mean if they were literally put together Dr. Moreau style. That monster would be ugly and useless but would have a creepy obsession with squirrels.
 

Riandor

COB Founder
Joined
May 26, 2004
Messages
8,230
He's still around. He's been a long standing member here. He had one of those days, we've all had where frustration gets the best of you and your posts come from the gut.

What didn't help was the fact that people fed on this like sharks sniffing blood. We should have recognized that he was having a day like that and cut him some slack rather than having a go. Rather than neg repping him, we could have used the disagree button. Rather than telling him "you're having a mare", we could have stepped away from the thread. He couldn't because sometimes we all get in that mood and can't.

Paolo has times he's up for banter. He can appreciate a good argument. But it took two posts for me recognize that wasn't what was going on with him today. He was mad. Probably won't be tomorrow. So let's respect his past contributions and throw anything said in anger today away. Because there was genuine opinion in there too and that should be respected (you don't have to agree with it though)

edit: I don't think sharks sniff. When I have time, I'll try and look up if they use their electrosenses to sense it or if it's actually smell. Until then, if it is wrong, feel free to make fun of me. Because I would do it to you
Jesus wept HS! What is with you tonight? 3 very eleqount posts in a row, i mean, we know you can do it but usually you break it up with some utter randomness to help us feel sane.

Blimey now ive had to actually nod wisely in agreement so much that im knackered.

Paolo10 and i have a bit if a toing and froing at moment but its ok and youre right, one of ose days.

Am almost more intruiged on seeing outgoings progress as that is also a good indicator for potential imminent incomings.
 

EJWTartanSpur

SC Supporter
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
4,009
Happy is on one of his deeply philosophical tangents tonight. You've been hitting the Chivas Regal and log fires again haven't you, sir ?

Perhaps you can help me with the meaning of this dream I had last night. We were playing Torquay at White Hart Lane, and for some reason Franco Baldini was in goals for us with a Walter Zenga style haircut circa Italia 1990, and the silver Italy goalie kit. Just when the game was going to start, the whole crowd realises we only had ten men on the pitch. Out of nowhere Levy from the directors box raises his finger and a bolt of lightning came out hitting one of the floodlights. The floodlight shone on someone in the crowd who pulled off his suit to reveal a full strip and he jumped on to the pitch - it was Clint Dempsey. Peter Ndlovu was up front for us for some reason.

The game starts and Dempsey runs up the wing with the ball but when he reaches the corner flag he turns into a helium balloon version of himself and starts floating up into the sky. Everybody looks up and watches him float away into the horizon ( somewhere towards the Fulham area ) When everybody looks back down on the pitch there is a Brazilan Rio carnival procession marching through the pitch with some kind of midget at the front of it in a black and white striped t shirt doing amazing tricks and impossible gravity defying magic with a football. :)
 

HappySpur

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
7,666
I'm sorry HS, but this is sentimental claptrap. You think kids from Africa are coming from better opportunity ?

His technique is poor because he comes from Texas ? Seriously ? Darren Bent had shit technique and he was from Tooting.

So what you are saying is that there is no cultural influence in how kids develop in the sport?

Yet, you are willing to argue that exact point when it suits your needs.


This is exactly at the heart of the problem. When I wrote my post in the England Croatia thread I touched on the lack of technique/technical ability in English players. I actually wrote that the problem starts with coaching at junior level and went on a bit so deleted that part of the post.

It has got slightly better than my day when kids with skill were almost frowned upon as "showboaters" and rejected often in favour of more "athletic" kids, but it is still pretty much as you say.

Part of the problem is defeinately as you say, a real lack of street football where anything goes and you have no "dad manager" pretending he's Brian Clough bellowing at you to "get rid" before you heaven forbid loose the ball.

I don't mean to knock all the amateur "dad managers" out there who give up there time but so many times I've watched junior games and been pissed off by the way that at 11 and 12 etc so much emphisis is put on winning and graft as apposed to skills, technique and expression.

Junior football is so structured and pressure is put on results and winning so early that it stifles sometimes.

Rez

I disagree with just about everything you wrote and your solutions.

I liked:

Chris Davies, Swansea’s match analyst, was captain when Rodgers managed Reading’s academy team. “Brendan’s rise has coincided with the rise of the Spanish teams but I can say from experience he was putting these things in place, travelling to Spain and Holland, studying, and doing it back in the late 1990s,” said Davies. “Even if Barça had never been successful, Brendan would be playing this way.”

A Spanish boy is born pure, just like a Welsh boy, an English boy, an Irish boy or a Scottish boy. The Spanish boy is not sprinkled with something special, it’s about the coaching and the philosophy he is taught as he grows up.

By proving this, Rodgers has removed the excuses for every British team and coach. It wasn’t easy. Davies says: “People think Brendan just pats them on the back and says, ‘Go out and play’. And it’s so far from that. So much detail goes into the specific movement patterns of each player. Key is the discipline to it.”

Rodgers works painstakingly on shape, starting with “phase one” of any passing move, when goalkeeper Michel Vorm has the ball. He looks at “sub-groups”, for example the three midfielders, who must keep close together so they can always give each other passing options. Focal to the thinking are “transitions”, the areas to which players go when Swansea switch from possession to retrieving the ball.

“Brendan’s worked with top foreign players at Chelsea — and says English players are technically as good. The different way foreigners play has nothing to do with technical ability, it’s tactical awareness, so what he does is teach people the game,” says Davies.

Swansea, all team-ethic (“if you’re an individual, even if you’re brilliant, you’re out of the squad,” Britton says), harbour no egos.

I know you have a penchant for a argument/fight when it comes to players you like/dislike. I'm not going to get dragged into it. And at this moment I'm going to put you on ignore for a day or so, just so I don't end up giving into the growing ill-feelings. I value you as a poster too much. But I won't forget that you thought you were arguing Jenas with an intellectual-inferior. That was a not your best move.
 

EnfieldYiddo

Silence
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
15,270
So what you are saying is that there is no cultural influence in how kids develop in the sport?

Yet, you are willing to argue that exact point when it suits your needs.








I know you have a penchant for a argument/fight when it comes to players you like/dislike. I'm not going to get dragged into it. And at this moment I'm going to put you on ignore for a day or so, just so I don't end up giving into the growing ill-feelings. I value you as a poster too much. But I won't forget that you thought you were arguing Jenas with an intellectual-inferior. That was a not your best move.
 

codspur

SC Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
2,377
You haven't been around long Deuce. But I've seen that you have a good sense of humor. I want you to stick around because you could be a good addition.

But in two posts in this thread you have used straw men arguments for American players (why Freddy Adu would even be mentioned here is beyond me)....it makes me suspect you're Sam's Army and not one of us. And it's okay if you're not one of us. We have members that support other clubs/institutions. We had Egyptian fans during the Mido/Ghaly years (and they had the best illegal feeds). We had Croatian fans during the Modric/Kranjcar/Charlie years. We've had a lot of new Americans over the past 12 months of Deuce/Methuselah.

But they only survive if they are like Teola65 (sp?) and show a bit of respect and discretion. And taking a pot shots at quite a number of our players when they weren't part of the argument to begin with is going to win you no points for Dempsey. In fact, that comment will actually counteract any good vibe my posts about Dempsey provided.

And I worked very hard to shed some light on him.

Even if I am wrong and you are a new Yid and will be one of us forever, you will still need to grow a thick skin over your obviously favorite player. The only players that don't get shit are retired. Even the great Ledley King got worse than Dempsey has gotten at times. And he was better than Bale, Berbatov and Modric put together.* Nature of the beast. Defend him by all means. But do it smartly or you will only do more harm than good.

And honestly, I really hope you stick around either way. Because I value humor more than anything and you've already shown that to be a strength.

Cheers

* I mean if they were literally put together Dr. Moreau style. That monster would be ugly and useless but would have a creepy obsession with squirrels.

Happy I thought you were American...can't for the life of me think why now
 

mpickard2087

On Hiatus.
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
20,581
You haven't been around long Deuce. But I've seen that you have a good sense of humor. I want you to stick around because you could be a good addition.

But in two posts in this thread you have used straw men arguments for American players (why Freddy Adu would even be mentioned here is beyond me)....it makes me suspect you're Sam's Army and not one of us. And it's okay if you're not one of us. We have members that support other clubs/institutions. We had Egyptian fans during the Mido/Ghaly years (and they had the best illegal feeds). We had Croatian fans during the Modric/Kranjcar/Charlie years. We've had a lot of new Americans over the past 12 months of Deuce/Methuselah.

But they only survive if they are like Teola65 (sp?) and show a bit of respect and discretion. And taking a pot shots at quite a number of our players when they weren't part of the argument to begin with is going to win you no points for Dempsey. In fact, that comment will actually counteract any good vibe my posts about Dempsey provided.

And I worked very hard to shed some light on him.

Even if I am wrong and you are a new Yid and will be one of us forever, you will still need to grow a thick skin over your obviously favorite player. The only players that don't get shit are retired. Even the great Ledley King got worse than Dempsey has gotten at times. And he was better than Bale, Berbatov and Modric put together.* Nature of the beast. Defend him by all means. But do it smartly or you will only do more harm than good.

And honestly, I really hope you stick around either way. Because I value humor more than anything and you've already shown that to be a strength.

Cheers

* I mean if they were literally put together Dr. Moreau style. That monster would be ugly and useless but would have a creepy obsession with squirrels.
Seen his post on Guzan/Lloris? That might give you an answer.
 

HappySpur

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
7,666
Happy is on one of his deeply philosophical tangents tonight. You've been hitting the Chivas Regal and log fires again haven't you, sir ?

Perhaps you can help me with the meaning of this dream I had last night. We were playing Torquay at White Hart Lane, and for some reason Franco Baldini was in goals for us with a Walter Zenga style haircut circa Italia 1990, and the silver Italy goalie kit. Just when the game was going to start, the whole crowd realises we only had ten men on the pitch. Out of nowhere Levy from the directors box raises his finger and a bolt of lightning came out hitting one of the floodlights. The floodlight shone on someone in the crowd who pulled off his suit to reveal a full strip and he jumped on to the pitch - it was Clint Dempsey. Peter Ndlovu was up front for us for some reason.

The game starts and Dempsey runs up the wing with the ball but when he reaches the corner flag he turns into a helium balloon version of himself and starts floating up into the sky. Everybody looks up and watches him float away into the horizon ( somewhere towards the Fulham area ) When everybody looks back down on the pitch there is a Brazilan Rio carnival procession marching through the pitch with some kind of midget at the front of it in a black and white striped t shirt doing amazing tricks and impossible gravity defying magic with a football. :)

I'm actually an expert at dream analysis

What I see is that fundamentally you are really bothered by the the fact that Elle Fanning is coasting off the Fanning name created by her obviously much more talented older sister Dakota. And you don't think it's fair that she hasn't had to earn her career in a business that is so hard to break into for people exponentially more talented than the girl that ruined Super-8. And it was during her ham-fisted portrayal of Lily in We Bought a Zoo that you just realized that you would rather eat a bucket of broken glass than ever watch a movie with that ugly little troll bitch (your words, not mine....and harsh dude)
 

JerryGarcia

Dark star crashes...
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
8,055
No late night ITK session then? Is there anyone lurking out there with some tasty morsels?
 

Paolo10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
Messages
6,179
To be linked heavily with lots of players and end up with only one signed with our previous is incredibly frustrating.

Yes it's only 11 days etc., but we hear the same thing every bloody window, soon it'll be "We've a week until the first game" then next thing you know it's deadline day and we're still haggling and fannying about lacking the improvements we need. It's happened far too often..

I hope to God (or whatever) that this is the window we finally sort it out, but I fail to see how anyone can't understand why I'd feel frustrated at recent failings with our recent history of brinkmanship, big talk and little real follow through (primarily with the striker we all crave or should at the very least).

It's also incredibly shitty to then have your opinion spammed for the hell of it when you are a fan who wants more for the club and thinks some meaningful (and EARLY) business is more than well overdue at this stage.

How many times do we forgive the same fucking mistakes? Clinging to hope window after window grates a little after a while.
 

HappySpur

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
7,666
Happy I thought you were American...can't for the life of me think why now

I am American. But I have this cool app that translates U.S. lingo into coherent arguments.

In my plea for tolerance on Paolo, I originally entered

"My diabetes is smarter than you bitches and imma gonna get my lark and run over you if you don't shuts up and leaves him be, y'all."

In my first Dempsey post, I merely type the following into the app.

"Dempsey yo! Full tilt!"

And it came out with that diatribe. I'll be honest, I don't know what at least 14 of the words in that post mean.

But it was the best 99 cents I ever spent.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
So what you are saying is that there is no cultural influence in how kids develop in the sport?

Yet, you are willing to argue that exact point when it suits your needs.








I know you have a penchant for a argument/fight when it comes to players you like/dislike. I'm not going to get dragged into it. And at this moment I'm going to put you on ignore for a day or so, just so I don't end up giving into the growing ill-feelings. I value you as a poster too much. But I won't forget that you thought you were arguing Jenas with an intellectual-inferior. That was a not your best move.

Nice. Have your say then refuse to discuss it. Big.

My point is that Dempsey has benefitted from better basic coaching than most Africans and certainly enough, and enough quality (ie professional EPL, International etc).

Nowhere in that post did I say coaching counts for nothing.

I don't understand your Jenas comment.
 

EJWTartanSpur

SC Supporter
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
4,009
To be linked heavily with lots of players and end up with only one signed with our previous is incredibly frustrating.

Yes it's only 11 days etc., but we hear the same thing every bloody window, soon it'll be "We've a week until the first game" then next thing you know it's deadline day and we're still haggling and fannying about lacking the improvements we need. It's happened far too often..

I hope to God (or whatever) that this is the window we finally sort it out, but I fail to see how anyone can't understand why I'd feel frustrated at recent failings with our recent history of brinkmanship, big talk and little real follow through (primarily with the striker we all crave or should at the very least).

It's also incredibly shitty to then have your opinion spammed for the hell of it when you are a fan who wants more for the club and thinks some meaningful (and EARLY) business is more than well overdue at this stage.

How many times do we forgive the same fucking mistakes? Clinging to hope window after window grates a little after a while.
Paulo, there are most definitely salient points within your stance at times. You are right - we have made mistakes in the past with how we have tactically gone about our our business in some windows. We have failed to adequately address or plan for the future of our strikeforce. There has been more than a few instances of us being apparently close on deals for players us the fans really want, only for them to be scotched right on the deadline. For the more docile, this may seem just a coincidence, for the level headed people it may just be the reality of our situation and for the more active type it may seem like a conspiracy of us faking bids to appease fans. Truth is, who knows which one of the three is right ?

Some people like to remain more optimistically hopeful, as if sensing a tipping point where we are going to go over the edge and land those 1-2 players that could really make us go for it. It has to be this window, extra money, AVB settled etc etc. Its the hope that makes it fun, then the hope that kills us before slowly beginning to grow again for the start of the next window.

I'll remain optimistic for now, but we will see what happens by windows end and you may have your moment, who knows ?
 

Flashspur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
6,100
this has been a very interesting thread.......with stuff like the banter in here it makes you wonder why we dont have an ITK post running all season long......part comedy gold, days of our lives and snuff movie put together...I love this site (y)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top