The 2016/17 Europa league and us: will we, should we and could we?

[Gassin's finest]

I would merge this because we do prefer not to have multiple threads on the same topic BUT.......

I can't be arsed

Lazy bum.

 

[mano-obe]

Are you the lucky type?

Not really, but we can beat the likes of Roma and United, this year we shouldn't fear anyone and I get the feeling we'll miss out on top 4 this season. If Chelsea can finish 7th and win the champions league then there is no doubt we can win Europa and finish higher than they did in the league

 

[guy]

Like I said we need to take it in its stride, there is no point going all out for it if we have a chance to win the title, for example if we have a game on Sunday which could potentially send us top of the league or into a good position then it's pointless playing our strongest team on the Thursday as we all know that they're gonna be tired for Sunday.

We need to assess and re-assess at the time and work out the strength of the opposition then we rotate accordingly but it's not going to be easy when there are other teams who will be fully committed playing their strongest side and most of those players coming to Wembley who will be looking for a big scalp.

Also some of those teams left aren't easy pickings like you suggested, Spanish teams will cause anyone problems like we've seen in the past as they tend to be better drilled tactically and technically and personally Villareal are the dark horses because they have an exceptional defensive setup (better than ours) Then you have Mochengladbach, Roma, Utd, Shakhtar, Lyon, Bilbao Zenit etc...It's not an easy competition at all. Not saying we can't win it, we could but we need to put 100% focus on It and need some favourable draws and yes it represents a good chance to get into the CL but I honestly think it's easier qualifying for the top four, at least we know the opposition in the Prem are we are better equipped to deal with the rigours of the league.

(This is not directed at you.)

This is the whole problem with the club, this excuses bollocks. We've already got the excuse lined up for when we fail.

Do you think the top teams put out the reserves when they are playing CL quarter or semi on a Wednesday, then a league game on a Saturday?

Man U just played and beat us after a trip to Poland on the Thursday.

It's a bullshit Spurs mentality issue.

Edit : and the whole we can go top if we win, gosh how many times did we fuck that up last season!

 

[Shadydan]

(This is not directed at you.)

This is the whole problem with the club, this excuses bollocks. We've already got the excuse lined up for when we fail.

Do you think the top teams put out the reserves when they are playing CL quarter or semi on a Wednesday, then a league game on a Saturday?

Man U just played and beat us after a trip to Poland on the Thursday.

It's a bullshit Spurs mentality issue.

Edit : and the whole we can go top if we win, gosh how many times did we fuck that up last season!

I don't think it's an excuse really, there's evidence that playing in the EL hinders your domestic season and the players accumulate a lot of mental and physical fatigue. Using the top teams as an example is an entirely different matter as those top teams normally have squads good and big enough to compete in multiple comps where as it's been proven that we struggle. Yes re Man Utd...teams do win games off the back of a European match but that's not the issue here, the issue is whether you can sustain a season with Europa League football whilst challenging for the top four/title which is what I'm doubting.

But to give you an example, when Man City played in the Europa League in 2011/12 after being knocked out the CL, they ended up resting players for that competition and then got knocked out in the QF however they put their strongest team out in the Prem and ended up finishing 1st so not just a Spurs thing...more a common sense thing.

I mean we could in theory go all out to win all of our matches but the likelihood of that is we'll be burnt out come April and we'll just tail off in both competitions, that's what we don't want right?

I'm not taking it personally, no worries

 

[TwanYid]

I don't think it's an excuse really, there's evidence that playing in the EL hinders your domestic season and the players accumulate a lot of mental and physical fatigue. Using the top teams as an example is an entirely different matter as those top teams normally have squads good and big enough to compete in multiple comps where as it's been proven that we struggle. Yes re Man Utd...teams do win games off the back of a European match but that's not the issue here, the issue is whether you can sustain a season with Europa League football whilst challenging for the top four/title which is what I'm doubting.

But to give you an example, when Man City played in the Europa League in 2011/12 after being knocked out the CL, they ended up resting players for that competition and then got knocked out in the QF however they put their strongest team out in the Prem and ended up finishing 1st so not just a Spurs thing...more a common sense thing.

I mean we could in theory go all out to win all of our matches but the likelihood of that is we'll be burnt out come April and we'll just tail off in both competitions, that's what we don't want right?

I'm not taking it personally, no worries

I think we have the squad to compete on two fronts. Not three- but two. I think we should totally throw the FA Cup and go hard for the other two (League and EL). Also- Shadydan- what if, realistically- it's only five matches that we have to double up for? I mean let's face it- we can and will be Gent, who are frankly nowhere near our level- and that's after a two month break! So a split squad, coast-and-we'll-still-get-through attitude for the first two games and then who knows- we'll likely get a fairly easy (or at least not terribly hard) round of 16 opponent. At the very least, whoever we face in the round of 16 will in all probability not be as good as us. So we'll be able to rest some players for those matches as well.

Then there'll only be five games left. I'm not talking shit btw; our upcoming two against the 7th place team in Belgium is, frankly, a joke; if we can't get past them with Cameron Carter-Vickers and co. we have bigger problems than prioritizing comps. And then (at the risk of repeating myself) the round of 16 in all likelihood won't be all that brutal either!

So now we're in the quarterfinals- and now, admittedly- is where it could get dicey. The team(s) we'll be facing from here on out will demand that we field the strongest possible team, period. But why can't we do that AND compete in the League? These guys are professionals and they will be asked to do just a bit more than normal; is that really so hard? I mean c'mon-- they're multi-millionaire footballers on the cusp of one of our greatest-ever seasons (this is assuming, of course, that we're in some kind of dogfight for top 4 in the League- which legitimately might not even be true)-- can they not dig down and perform five freaking extra times?!?

I'm trying to say that when it comes to giving the Europa League an honest go it's really not all that much more taxing/draining/exhausting/punishing/tortuous than not playing at all. Posh can say "If we make it to the final boys we'll all have an extra week's vacation" or something like that! He can make it fun!

Shadydan I'm not being pollyanna; due to a fortuitous set of circumstances, we- this season- are set up to win the Europa League more than just about any other team in the competition. Simply put, we will never have as good a chance as this one to bring home a major international trophy, raise the profile of our club and place us squarely into the Champions League next season. This is it- the time is NOW. No more dicking around- this is the one time in our history where we can and should go all out to win it.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

No more dicking around- this is the one time in our history where we can and should go all out to win it.

I've seen this said every year for the past several years. This is the time, this is our big chance. I think you let yourself get excited there.......

I'd like to see us go for it but I suspect that if we did and failed to win it, there would still be people saying we 'threw' it because we failed when this is supposedly the best chance we've ever had.

 

[Shadydan]

I think we have the squad to compete on two fronts. Not three- but two. I think we should totally throw the FA Cup and go hard for the other two (League and EL). Also- Shadydan- what if, realistically- it's only five matches that we have to double up for? I mean let's face it- we can and will be Gent, who are frankly nowhere near our level- and that's after a two month break! So a split squad, coast-and-we'll-still-get-through attitude for the first two games and then who knows- we'll likely get a fairly easy (or at least not terribly hard) round of 16 opponent. At the very least, whoever we face in the round of 16 will in all probability not be as good as us. So we'll be able to rest some players for those matches as well.

Then there'll only be five games left. I'm not talking shit btw; our upcoming two against the 7th place team in Belgium is, frankly, a joke; if we can't get past them with Cameron Carter-Vickers and co. we have bigger problems than prioritizing comps. And then (at the risk of repeating myself) the round of 16 in all likelihood won't be all that brutal either!

So now we're in the quarterfinals- and now, admittedly- is where it could get dicey. The team(s) we'll be facing from here on out will demand that we field the strongest possible team, period. But why can't we do that AND compete in the League? These guys are professionals and they will be asked to do just a bit more than normal; is that really so hard? I mean c'mon-- they're multi-millionaire footballers on the cusp of one of our greatest-ever seasons (this is assuming, of course, that we're in some kind of dogfight for top 4 in the League- which legitimately might not even be true)-- can they not dig down and perform five freaking extra times?!?

I'm trying to say that when it comes to giving the Europa League an honest go it's really not all that much more taxing/draining/exhausting/punishing/tortuous than not playing at all. Posh can say "If we make it to the final boys we'll all have an extra week's vacation" or something like that! He can make it fun!

Shadydan I'm not being pollyanna; due to a fortuitous set of circumstances, we- this season- are set up to win the Europa League more than just about any other team in the competition. Simply put, we will never have as good a chance as this one to bring home a major international trophy, raise the profile of our club and place us squarely into the Champions League next season. This is it- the time is NOW. No more dicking around- this is the one time in our history where we can and should go all out to win it.

Yeah look I admire your passion and excitement but this is all speculation which is why I said we gotta take each game as they come. Would love to win it and I think we can but at the same won't be surprised if we get knocked out.

 

[BaFa94]

Yes we will, yes we should and yes we can. We're Tottenham fucking Hotspur and we should be winning trophies.

 

[TwanYid]

Yeah look I admire your passion and excitement but this is all speculation which is why I said we gotta take each game as they come. Would love to win it and I think we can but at the same won't be surprised if we get knocked out.

I won't either- I just don't want to get knocked out because we decided to play Tommy Carroll in midfield (if you get my drift).

 

[TwanYid]

I've seen this said every year for the past several years. This is the time, this is our big chance. I think you let yourself get excited there.......

I'd like to see us go for it but I suspect that if we did and failed to win it, there would still be people saying we 'threw' it because we failed when this is supposedly the best chance we've ever had.

I feel you A & C-- but this truly is the weakest, most wide open, juggernaut-less field ever. Even the oddsmakers have us second favorite.

Sorry, but this really is the year.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I feel you A & C-- but this truly is the weakest, most wide open, juggernaut-less field ever. Even the oddsmakers have us second favorite.

Sorry, but this really is the year.

Yeah that's another thing........The bookmakers have us amongst the favourites every year

 

[JayB]

I think there are two big differences between this season and last when it comes to the Europa League.

1) We now have the squad depth in central midfield to rotate and still be able to compete on both fronts. Last season we were humiliated in the first leg against Dortmund primarily because we played a midfield duo of Mason and Carroll. This season we will be able to play some combination of Winks/Dembele and Wanyama/Dier. That's a completely different proposition.

2) In my opinion we are unlikely to close the gap on Chelsea and find ourselves in a genuine title tilt. Obviously this could change in the next two months, but last season Poch had to rotate and preserve our most important players for crucial league matches. He would have been absolutely crucified, and rightly so, if he hadn't rotated and we had dropped points in the league as a result. If we aren't in a position to compete for the league he'll be much more justified in playing the likes of Kane and Alderweireld in EL matches if we make it to the business end of the competition this time around.

One way or another we are going to have to find a way to get out of third gear, as Danny Rose said, and find our level of last season if we want to win any silverware this year. But the EL is setting up as a winnable competition if we are able to find our best form.

 

[TwanYid]

I think there are two big differences between this season and last when it comes to the Europa League.

1) We now have the squad depth in central midfield to rotate and still be able to compete on both fronts. Last season we were humiliated in the first leg against Dortmund primarily because we played a midfield duo of Mason and Carroll. This season we will be able to play some combination of Winks/Dembele and Wanyama/Dier. That's a completely different proposition.

2) In my opinion we are unlikely to close the gap on Chelsea and find ourselves in a genuine title tilt. Obviously this could change in the next two months, but last season Poch had to rotate and preserve our most important players for crucial league matches. He would have been absolutely crucified, and rightly so, if he hadn't rotated and we had dropped points in the league as a result. If we aren't in a position to compete for the league he'll be much more justified in playing the likes of Kane and Alderweireld in EL matches if we make it to the business end of the competition this time around.

One way or another we are going to have to find a way to get out of third gear, as Danny Rose said, and find our level of last season if we want to win any silverware this year. But the EL is setting up as a winnable competition if we are able to find our best form.

God I love this post.

 

[Rogmeister]

Great response.

One question (or thing to think about at least): wouldn't being in the Champions League in 2017-18 be a lot better than, say, a fifth place finish in the EPL this season? I mean yeah, sure, a fourth place finish- along with its attendant CL qualification- would be ideal- but pragmatically we are the likeliest not to be invited to that party. As much as I would love it, chances are we're finishing 5th at best. (Yeah I get it- we could do it; my point is that- odds are- we won't).

HOWEVER, we are practically odds-on favorites to win the Europa League, with only Manure being favored over us! And they are freakin' terrible!!!

Wednesday 24th May 2017
Europa League Winner 16/17 - Win Outright

Manchester Utd 4/1 Tottenham 15/2
Roma 11/1 Zenit St Petersburg 12/1
Shakhtar Donetsk 12/1 Schalke 14/1
Lyon 16/1 Athletic Bilbao 16/1
Fiorentina 18/1 Villarreal 22/1
FC Copenhagen 28/1 Borussia Mgladbach 28/1
Fenerbahce 28/1 Ajax 28/1
Besiktas 28/1 Celta Vigo 33/1
Olympiacos 33/1 FK Krasnodar 40/1
Sparta Prague 50/1 Rostov 50/1
Genk 50/1 Anderlecht 50/1
St Etienne 66/1 Ludogorets Razgrad 100/1
Osmanlispor 100/1 APOEL 100/1
Gent 150/1 Legia Warsaw 150/1
Hapeol Beer Sheva 150/1 AZ Alkmaar 250/1
Astra Giurgiu 250/1PAOK 250/1

So why in God's name don't/won't we take this seriously?!?

WE CAN FINALLY WIN THE FUCKING THING!!!!!

Unfortunately I don't think you can call Utd terrible. Since changing formation they have started winning, beaten us and are only three points and a position behind us. He's had a rough time due to the disaster he inherited but they are starting to look like a solid team now.

 

[lukespurs7]

God I love this post.

Jansen hitting some form would also be required. Or signing another striker in Jan if Janssen ain't going to cut it. Kane can't do it all on his own.

 

[TwanYid]

Unfortunately I don't think you can call Utd terrible. Since changing formation they have started winning, beaten us and are only three points and a position behind us. He's had a rough time due to the disaster he inherited but they are starting to look like a solid team now.

Fair enough but are they a juggernaut? No, right? They are basically us in red, if you will. They're not Real Madrid- they're not Chelsea- hell, they're not even Sevilla!

Yeah sure they're tough- and I was overstating it to call them terrible (although I have to say that when we played them I was NOT impressed)- but put it this way: they're beatable. And that's our toughest test in the competition!

My point isn't that we're a shoe-in, but that-
for the first time in as long as I can ever remember- we have as good a chance as anyone else to bring home this trophy. In fact imo we practically have a better chance than anyone else.

 

[Shadydan]

Don't do it to yourself mate, I personally think you're under estimating the opposition a little as well but anyway we will see, I don't want to come across negative or have a defeatist attitude, just being a realist.

If we want to win a trophy then the FA Cup offers a far more realistic chance of winning silverware and we are better equipped to win that.

 

[Lighty64]

as this thread looks to be the main one till someone starts a new one in February below is what my thoughts on the comp and it's fixtures

I do believe if we were to really push for this, some of the key info is who we play before and after, and obviously who we face in the comp, on how we rotate the squad

below is the fixtures before and after each tie if we were to go for it

Before-------------- Europa --- After
Liverpool (a) - last 32 16/2 - FA Cup 5th Rd
FA Cup 5th Rd - last 32 23/2 - Stoke C (h)

Everton (h) - last 16 8/3 - C Palace (a)
C Palace (a) - last 16 15/3 - S'ton (h)

Watford (h) - Q/F 12/4 - Bournemouth (h)
Bournemouth (h) - Q/F 19/4 - Leicester (a)

Arscum (h) - S/F 3/5 - Wet Spam (a)
Wet Spam (a) - S/F 10/5 - Man U (h)

Rd Last 32 = if we fail in getting into the 5th round of the FA Cup, we could afford to go strong v Liverpool and the 1st leg, and hopefully be able to rotate enough. if we get to the 5th round then depending on League position Poch needs to decide. @TwanYid our squad is stronger than last season, but definitely not big enough to cope with 3 comps

Rd Last 16 = not sandwiched between 2 difficult PL fixtures, though before 1st leg, and after 2nd leg these will be tough fixtures,

Q/F = if we can get this far this is the easiest set of fixtures that might allow for rotation, though by this time if still in the FA Cup we will then seriously be looking at a fixture pile up

S/F = if we were to get that far, then we hit a very tough spell, and a lot will depend on our league position, if we are in a strong position in the league by the Q/F's then I could see that being our Dortmund of last seasons line up.

yes if we put all our eggs in 1 basket the teams left in it this season aren't as tough as last season, but the only reason we are 2nd favourites is because of the draw. due to:

Villarreal (ESP) v Roma (ITA)
Celta Vigo (ESP) v Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR)
Borussia Mönchengladbach (GER)* v Fiorentina (ITA)

means that due to the toughness of these fixtures, it will effect their odds for the whole comp, once the winners of each match is sorted and providing we don't slip up, depending on the draw for the round of 16 will show up completely different odds. the rounds after that are definitely not as easy either. i wouldn't want to face any of the winners of the ties above unless we can actually put a strong team out, and on top of those games, I would definitely want to avoid those below in the round of 16

Athletic Club (ESP)
Zenit (RUS)
Manchester United (ENG)
Fenerbahçe (TUR)
Lyon (FRA)
Schalke (GER)

at the end of the day we have 8 PL fixtures to play before the round of 32 1st leg, and hopefully a couple of FA Cup games at least. out of those 8 games we have 2 very tough fixtures away from home, 1 very tough one at home, and only a couple that I'd expect us to win. if we are still very much in the running for 4th or better by time we play Gent, then I will accept whatever route Poch takes.

 

[allpaths]

As a club to continue to progress we need to be able to start competing seriously for trophies. We've resigned a group of top footballers that need to win trophies to fulfill their ambitions. As to grow as a squad to keep us from stagnating.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

Great response.

One question (or thing to think about at least): wouldn't being in the Champions League in 2017-18 be a lot better than, say, a fifth place finish in the EPL this season? I mean yeah, sure, a fourth place finish- along with its attendant CL qualification- would be ideal- but pragmatically we are the likeliest not to be invited to that party. As much as I would love it, chances are we're finishing 5th at best. (Yeah I get it- we could do it; my point is that- odds are- we won't).

HOWEVER, we are practically odds-on favorites to win the Europa League, with only Manure being favored over us! And they are freakin' terrible!!!

Wednesday 24th May 2017
Europa League Winner 16/17 - Win Outright

Manchester Utd 4/1 Tottenham 15/2
Roma 11/1 Zenit St Petersburg 12/1
Shakhtar Donetsk 12/1 Schalke 14/1
Lyon 16/1 Athletic Bilbao 16/1
Fiorentina 18/1 Villarreal 22/1
FC Copenhagen 28/1 Borussia Mgladbach 28/1
Fenerbahce 28/1 Ajax 28/1
Besiktas 28/1 Celta Vigo 33/1
Olympiacos 33/1 FK Krasnodar 40/1
Sparta Prague 50/1 Rostov 50/1
Genk 50/1 Anderlecht 50/1
St Etienne 66/1 Ludogorets Razgrad 100/1
Osmanlispor 100/1 APOEL 100/1
Gent 150/1 Legia Warsaw 150/1
Hapeol Beer Sheva 150/1 AZ Alkmaar 250/1
Astra Giurgiu 250/1PAOK 250/1

So why in God's name don't/won't we take this seriously?!?

WE CAN FINALLY WIN THE FUCKING THING!!!!!

Sorry mate but De Gea, Bailly, Carrick, Herrera, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Ibra... United are a damn good team and are a huge threat to us winning this. No way would we be favourites against them if going head to head.