Spurs starting 11 V Top 4

[gavspur]

While watching the semi-final Champs league last night, I really started to think about what kind of players, in what areas, we really need to improve to get to a Champs League semi-final and challenge the top 4.. And as i have a broken hand, I have time to tell ya!!:razz:

so: (basic theory line-ups 442, no complaints please) strongest 11 at present.

Robbo
Hutton Woody Leds Bale​

Lennon Jenas Zokora Malbranque​

[FONT=&quot]Berbs Keane
[/FONT]

Reina​

Aurelio Carragher Skrtel Arbeloa​

Kuyt Alonso Mascherano Babel​

[FONT=&quot]Torres Gerrard
[/FONT]
Cech

Ferreira Carvalho Terry Cole​

Cole Essien Ballack Malouda​

Drogba Lamapard​

​

Van der Sar​

Brown Vidic Ferdinand Evra​

Ronaldo Scholes Carrick Giggs​

[FONT=&quot]Tevez Rooney

Looking at those lineups tells me exactly where we are missing quality players, and watching the 2 keepers last night, and Alonso/Mascherano in particular, it just nailed home the need for Spurs to invest in a quality keeper, and at least one amazing CM.. You could also add left midfield/winger into that, but, CM and keeper seems priority to me, especially as we could push Bale further up and have more chance of finding a decent left back for cheaper than a winger..The board/management will need to spend big on these positions, unless Kameni rumoured 4mill turns out a bargain, and we can make money back on the likes of Zokora, LYP, Chimbs and Robbo etc..It also, as we all know, relies on Berbs staying put, or we have another serious problem upfront..

Who fits the bill? Luch Gonzalez? Van der Vart? Poulsen? Gattuso? I really like the way Alonso and Mascherano work together, Alonso the passer/creator and Mascherano the winner/breaker of play. Both hard working CM's, isn't that the so called Ramos style CM pairing?
I'm not sure who really fits the bill thats realistic, and as for Keepers, i'm growing on the idea of Kameni, he's big strong and athletic, that seems a winning formular for keepers, he may be rough round the edges, but you have to be a little mad to be a keeper anyway, its better he has the talent there than not at all..

Please discuss, rant back etc etc.:beer:
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[gavspur]

summats gone wrong with the lay out, but i only have one hand at the mo, so it stays that way, you get the idea.

 

[DC_Boy]

I don't think you can count king or bale cos they're long term injured

to me we need a decent keeper LB CB and at least one CM to get anywhere near top 4

 

[simyid]

I love that you added champions leaue semi-final just so you can leave out arsenal

 

[gavspur]

I don't think you can count king or bale cos they're long term injured

to me we need a decent keeper LB CB and at least one CM to get anywhere near top 4

yeah, i know what ya mean about king/bale mate, but i was just going for strongest 11, not counting injuries etc..Terry's been injured, Carragher had some problems a while back too, as did Cole etc..just going for main 11.

 

[gavspur]

I love that you added champions leaue semi-final just so you can leave out arsenal

well, they aint there as much as we aren't, so sod 'em..anyway, player for player (not as a team maybe) they are prob the weakest in the top 4, but Wenger gets them to play together, thats why they are, cough cough *whispering* good.

 

[DC_Boy]

yeah, i know what ya mean about king/bale mate, but i was just going for strongest 11, not counting injuries etc..Terry's been injured, Carragher had some problems a while back too, as did Cole etc..just going for main 11.

I take your point gav - but this is one of my campaigns it drove me (slightly) mad last year people kept putting King in their Spurs XI - why - he hardly ever plays

same with Bale this season

fact is (IMHO) if you base what we need to challenge the top 4 on having those two in the XI you're going to come to some false conclusions (perhaps the board made that same mistake re King in the summer)

it's one thing to have a player out here and there - but when a player hardly plays I wouldn't count him in our strongest XI - of course others may do - it's just my view

 

[gavspur]

I take your point gav - but this is one of my campaigns it drove me (slightly) mad last year people kept putting King in their Spurs XI - why - he hardly ever plays

same with Bale this season

fact is if you base what we need to challenge the top 4 on having those two in the XI you're going to come to some false conclusions (perhaps the board made that same mistake re King in the summer)

it's one thing to have a player out here and there - but when a player hardly plays I wouldn't count him in our strongest XI - of course others may do - it's just my view

ok fair do's, a quality CB is needed too, i've already mentioned left back as a poss position we may need to bulk up on... Who's gonna be available to fill King's boots? Brown? no way! Lescott???? no f-ing way!! It'd have to be another big spend for that quality, Garay? Puyol? Ramos? Lucio?

 

[Coyboy]

I take your point gav - but this is one of my campaigns it drove me (slightly) mad last year people kept putting King in their Spurs XI - why - he hardly ever plays

same with Bale this season

fact is (IMHO) if you base what we need to challenge the top 4 on having those two in the XI you're going to come to some false conclusions (perhaps the board made that same mistake re King in the summer)

it's one thing to have a player out here and there - but when a player hardly plays I wouldn't count him in our strongest XI - of course others may do - it's just my view

Hey, I see where you are coming from re King but re Bale, he isn't injury prone. He broke his foot against Brum- impact injury- and they decided to do exploratory surgery to avoid further relapses which given his age is wise.

He is not a permanent cripple. He is only eighteen and given his form up until then and the liklihood he will get much better, there is nothing wrong putting him in our best team just as there is nothing wrong putting Drogba, Cech, G Neville, Scholes in United and Chelsea teams.

 

[DC_Boy]

Hey, I see where you are coming from re King but re Bale, he isn't injury prone. He broke his foot against Brum- impact injury- and they decided to do exploratory surgery to avoid further relapses which given his age is wise.

He is not a permanent cripple. He is only eighteen and given his form up until then and the liklihood he will get much better, there is nothing wrong putting him in our best team just as there is nothing wrong putting Drogba, Cech, G Neville, Scholes in United and Chelsea teams.

Hi Coyboy (escaped from the front page well I disagree - until I see Bale running around and back to his best form I'm not counting him as part of our best XI - when a player has such a serious injury it's not prudent to assume he'll come back as good

also I think we should get a LB anyway - as I think Bale is not necessarily best suited there - he's certainly not Prem proven IMHO

 

[van_Pommel]

Centre midfield is undoubtably our weakest area. Alonso and Mascherano would transform our team instantly. We need to find players of this quality from somewhere but our scouts seem to struggle in this area. If I had to make a suggestion I'd say Jean II Makoun and Mathieu Bodmer, they played together for Lille last season (Bodmer's at Lyon now). Makoun is kinda like Makelele and Bodmer is kinda like a lanky Gerrard. I haven't watched them much but what I have seen has impressed me and they seemed to complement each other well as a centre midfield partnership.

Here is a few snippets from a United forum after they played Lille last season:

TBH, I thought these 2 were the difference for Lille tonight, they always seemed to be involved, Bodmer was behind just about every attacking move whilst Makoun was all over the field, covered more ground than any other player, I realise we've been interested in Makoun, certianly didn't do himself any harm with tonights performance

Jean II Makoun was man of the match.

He was all over the place, good in defence and around when Lille where pushing forward. It's fair to say that he tonight was better than both Carrick and Scholes. Together with Bodmer he was controlling the midfield. Makoun will be on SAFs shoppinglist this summer, be sure.

He is a kind of players everbody loves to have in there team.


Bodmer is certainly more attacking, but he also is strong in the tackle, great in the air, fantastic technique and very creative.

I'm sure some people on here will have more informed opinions on them than I have, I just thought I'd throw a couple of ideas into the hat.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

I take your point gav - but this is one of my campaigns it drove me (slightly) mad last year people kept putting King in their Spurs XI - why - he hardly ever plays

same with Bale this season

fact is (IMHO) if you base what we need to challenge the top 4 on having those two in the XI you're going to come to some false conclusions (perhaps the board made that same mistake re King in the summer)

it's one thing to have a player out here and there - but when a player hardly plays I wouldn't count him in our strongest XI - of course others may do - it's just my view

Since you are going to say this over and over this summer I am going to say my piece now. King I agree it is very difficult to realistically expect to see him playing on a regular basis next season as he has a recurring injury of the type that isn't really solvable and has struggled to make comebacks. Bale is an entirely different situation, it is the type of injury which happens and players regularly come back from. There is no suggestion that it will be recurring and by all accounts he is on schedule and should be back to full training for the beginning of pre-season. He has the same likelihood of missing matches next season as any other player in the squad. For this reason I will include Bale in every team.

Besides I'm not entirely sure a LB would be a priority anyway, we have Gilberto. Before you say he is rubbish, people said the same about Stalteri and he was part of our defence in our best defensive season (along with Robbo, Dawson and LYP who have also been branded as rubbish and destined to be shipped out). Player for player our defenders are much better now but our defence doesn't get nearly the same protection as when we had a decent and consistent midfield, i.e. with Carrick and Davids.

Central midfield is in my opinion the biggest priority by a long way. I wouldn't be surprised to see us bring in 3 or 4 midfielders in fact.

 

[DC_Boy]

ok fair do's, a quality CB is needed too, i've already mentioned left back as a poss position we may need to bulk up on... Who's gonna be available to fill King's boots? Brown? no way! Lescott???? no f-ing way!! It'd have to be another big spend for that quality, Garay? Puyol? Ramos? Lucio?

Hi gav who we get I haven't got a clue

I rarely get involved in these 'fantasy teams' - cos chances are the club will get someone I know little of - see Kaboul last year

My ideas of new players tend to be players I know and know are availble - in recent years I've suggested Jagielka Barry (years ago) and Ashley Young- quite often to be told by various sages - not up to top 4 - won't take us up a level, overpriced (one that's often correct) - and various other advice most of which I think completely misses the point

to me if a player will help us (as Jagielka would havve) then he's a possible the rest is down to price wages etc which is something I have to truat our board on

 

[Gin+Tonic14]

How many times has this exact thread been done before?

 

[DC_Boy]

fair play IOMLS - but yes you're right I am going to say it over and over again cos I disagree with you - I hope your optimism is correct i don't share it - Bale got injured 3 times in a short period of time - that's worrying in my book

no i don't rate Gilberto as LB and I'm convinced a LB is a priority

you are of course welcome to your view - but I'm welcome to mine - I was unfortunately proved right in my warnings about King last season - we'll see what happens next season

PS - I'll try to remember IOMLS not to reply to any of your strongest XIs - but if you want me to put you on ignore so I don't make any mistakes I'll happily do so - and please put me on ignore if you find me repetitious - cos I know once I get on a crusade I do go on way too much - so please ignore me if you want - I won't be offended

 

[SpurSince57]

But is he going to be our first-choice LB, next season at least? We hardly got a chance to see what he could do there before he was crocked, but his tackling success is about 56%—the worst in the squad. For a FB it should be 80%+.

And whilst a top-quality CB would be nice, and I'm sure we'll go all out to get one this summer, for me it's consistency as much as out-and-out quality—a regular partnership. It's no coincidence that having the same back line for the majority of our games two years ago resulted in the best defensive record Spurs have had in years. (That's not to forget Carrick and Davids' contribution, of course.) A solid CB pairing will go a long way to protecting a keeper going through an iffy patch, as Rio and Vidic did for VdS towards the end of last season and at the beginning of this. Our problem has been that Robinson's slump in form coincided with the defence going to pot because of constant changes in line-up due to injuries. Even a top-drawer, on-form keeper is only going to be able to do so much to compensate for the kind of Fred Karno defending we've seen for the past two seasons. For that reason alone I'd say getting the back line settled is top priority, followed by the midfield, and then the keeper.

 

[DC_Boy]

But is he going to be our first-choice LB, next season at least? We hardly got a chance to see what he could do there before he was crocked, but his tackling success is about 56%—the worst in the squad. For a FB it should be 80%+.

quote]

exactly 57, to me no way is Bale a prem proven LB - so to me we need a decent/quality LB in for the summer - cos ATM we haven't got a reliable one (given Lee is now persona non grata)

I tend to see Bale as LM as much as LB - much depends on JR's tactics

 

[tRiKS]

and yet that liverpool team were unable to dominate and create as mush against that chelsea team than we did or as it happens play as well and dominate virtually the same Arsenal team as we did.
you might as well throw in the last utd game, who were very lucky to get a draw AND they used both of th thier CM pairings over the 90mins.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

fair play IOMLS - but yes you're right I am going to say it over and over again cos I disagree with you - I hope your optimism is correct i don't share it - Bale got injured 3 times in a short period of time - that's worrying in my book

no i don't rate Gilberto as LB and I'm convinced a LB is a priority

you are of course welcome to your view - but I'm welcome to mine - I was unfortunately proved right in my warnings about King last season - we'll see what happens next season

PS - I'll try to remember IOMLS not to reply to any of your strongest XIs - but if you want me to put you on ignore so I don't make any mistakes I'll happily do so - and please put me on ignore if you find me repetitious - cos I know once I get on a crusade I do go on way too much - so please ignore me if you want - I won't be offended

Woah there, why would I put you on ignore? I don't mind you stating your view as many times as you like, and to a certain extent I agree with what you are saying, I wasn't meaning to be offensive. I was just meaning that I was going to only reply to it once.

As it happens I doubt I will be posting too many strongest XI's, dream team's or the like. Although I might well post in every thread concerning our midfield. I feel that strongly that it needs upgrading. The fact that there are probaly 11 or 12 other premiership teams with better midfields than us worries me enormously when you consider that 70% of the game is played in the middle of the park and that I can't name a single team that as ever finished in the top 4 without a quality midfield. I can name some without even average fullbacks, and even some with dodgy centrebacks. If you consistently win the midfield battles you win the game.

 

[DC_Boy]

IOMLS - but I'll try to keep my Bale strictures to a min as I do go on