- Aug 14, 2006
- 51,069
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I have made a choice not to follow Judaism as a religion. However, I was born Jewish, my family is Jewish and I am Jewish and I do not dispute that fact so I have to disagree with the viewpoint that it is only a religion.
Sorry buddy - you're incorrect - it is absolutely not just a spiritual thing - its being part of a tribe / race / ethnicity.
You are always considered to be Jewish by the religion even if you covert to another.
I am absolutely 100% a Jew despite not believing in, practicing or having any spiritual affiliation to the religion at all.
I have made a choice not to follow Judaism as a religion. However, I was born Jewish, my family is Jewish and I am Jewish and I do not dispute that fact so I have to disagree with the viewpoint that it is only a religion.
That's nice but I disagree completely for various reasons, but you are entitled to believing what you believe is a fact.
Fair enough Everyone entitled to their own beliefs. I feel I am a human, my family being Jewish, anything to do with blood etc, to me it is a made up load of nonsense, human words/notions/constructs to create/push differences in us etc. etc.
I understand why you would disagree - I understand religion is mostly made up and therefore you cant truly define single person by any said religion however its important to understand that what I am saying is fact based on the religion.
Same way that one is born into being a British, German, whatever person - in the Jewish religion it is considered the same thing so it doesnt matter if you disagree - im just telling you what the law of the land is.
>>"fact based on the religion" - an oxymoron if ever i've heard one
You want me to take something that isn't real to be a fact? Or you want me to accept some delusional people consider it a fact?
So would you call yourself British?
Mate - EVERYTHING is made up!
Words, countries, everything
I think you're misunderstanding the situation. Which is fair enough since most people aren't able to conjugate why there is such a visceral reaction here. (and this thread is an over-reaction)
His position may be wrong, counter-productive, self-selving etc. but he has a right to say what he feels. The problem is about who he is. Baddiel is massively wealthy and ridiculously privileged. When he wants to raise this issue he can go straight on television or put a column in a newspaper, where he can put across his view as if it is the truth with no reply. What's even worse is that we live in a climate where these kinds of stories have a primed audience. So there's an immediate call and response thing going on, where the well meaning but uninformed 'layman' can take up the cause.
Add to that professional bodies such as Kick it out and the Society of Black Lawyers who, for differing reasons, may need to investigate, and the average man, who not only thinks he is right but also that his position is more progressive and enlightened, will feel alienated and beleaguered by this scenario.
Yep, stuck in a world with multiple realities overlayed within multiple realities and truths, it sucks
Trust me buddy - im with you and i get you - the laws we live by, the places we live - even the name of the football team we support - at one point or another these things were non-existent
Obviously your reality is yours and that is for you to do what you want with!
If white people here started telling black or mixed race people that they 'aren't dark enough to be black', then we'd have a much-justified meltdown here.
So it isn't OK for non-Jews to define what it is to be Jewish. We get to define ourselves and, for a very substantial number of us - in Israel it is a majority - the definition is entirely outside the question of 'religion' or 'faith' or 'observance'. There is a complex mix of culture, ethnicity, heredity and history and, for some people, there is also religion.
But you guys don't get to tell us whether we're Jewish or not. We get to tell you and you get to say 'OK'.
My grandparents were totally secular and they were Jewish enough for the Nazis to steal their business, imprison them and kill them.
Nowadays we get to decide whether we're Jewish. No one else.
I work on a client information system at my place of work and Jewish comes under religion when added, not ethnicity.
Just thought I'd throw that in - these are all central government agreed things so if ya got any probs with that blame the government lol.
If white people here started telling black or mixed race people that they 'aren't dark enough to be black', then we'd have a much-justified meltdown here.
So it isn't OK for non-Jews to define what it is to be Jewish. We get to define ourselves and, for a very substantial number of us - in Israel it is a majority - the definition is entirely outside the question of 'religion' or 'faith' or 'observance'. There is a complex mix of culture, ethnicity, heredity and history and, for some people, there is also religion.
But you guys don't get to tell us whether we're Jewish or not. We get to tell you and you get to say 'OK'.
My grandparents were totally secular and they were Jewish enough for the Nazis to steal their business, imprison them and kill them.
Nowadays we get to decide whether we're Jewish. No one else.
But being a Jew is not a race though is it.
In terms of Jewish law it is exactly that -