Spurs and VAR

[JimmyG2]

I featured VAR on my blog and wrote:

https://jimmyg2.blogspot.com/2019/08/spurs-reap-benefits.html

' We were outplayed but not outscored and will take this improvement into the games ahead. It's still a funny old game but with technological knobs on.

Poor refereeing and linesmen’s decisions often spoil the game but VAR will introduce it's own quirks, oddities and delays. It will spot transgressions which the referee does not and could not see.

But it's the same for everyone and strictly speaking it's fairer in the purest sense. We have benefited hugely twice, both against City and we will share their pain quite soon no doubt.'

 

[buckley]

if nothing else its given us something to discuss but it seems that it not a good or bad thing its more a case of a multitude of different opinions . Perhaps we should put the discussion to bed for now then revisit at the end of the season that's what I am doing and so bye bye.

 

[mil1lion]

The thing that annoys me is that when we score I feel like I can't celebrate too much just in case VAR comes up
You look at the way Jesus was dancing after his goal and think how funny it looks when it's disallowed
'Arry used to say that he didn't like to celebrate too much in case the opposition goes straight up the other end and scores. I think now the same applies because of VAR.
I feel like there will be a little hesitation with a number of goals, like a cheer and a wait and then another cheer if VAR allows it or it doesn't go to VAR.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

All I can say is that there will be a penalty every time the ball is put in the box from a corner or a free kick because football is a contact sport and the only way to stop such events as Lamelas is to say from now on the game will be a no contact game . Cant it just be accepted that the VAR people said "no goal " whatever there motives in giving out statements there main objective is to get the right call
albeit some of their " right calls " are wrong and all these controversies give something to talk about .
Just imagine football with no contact you might just as well follow netball.long live VAR there will be a lot more correct calls than wrong calls at the very least it gives you and I something to disagree on.

The question isn't whether VAR got it right it will - but the new rules are laughable even if the decision went for us

 

[ralphs bald spot]

I featured VAR on my blog and wrote:

https://jimmyg2.blogspot.com/2019/08/spurs-reap-benefits.html

' We were outplayed but not outscored and will take this improvement into the games ahead. It's still a funny old game but with technological knobs on.

Poor refereeing and linesmen’s decisions often spoil the game but VAR will introduce it's own quirks, oddities and delays. It will spot transgressions which the referee does not and could not see.

But it's the same for everyone and strictly speaking it's fairer in the purest sense. We have benefited hugely twice, both against City and we will share their pain quite soon no doubt.'

Do you really think their was an improvement !! Another day we could and probably should of got hammered, VAR is a nonsense but the new rules are even more so

 

[DCSPUR]

Two things to pick apart here. Firstly the decisions historically going against us. It's very natural to remember those that go against us more than those that go in our favour. But I'm not sure over the long term we've been as hard done by overall as you'd think. Obviously there's been some high profile shockers though.

Secondly, most people who are against var don't argue that it will lead to more correct decisions. Case in point Molineux last night showing their displeasure after being awarded the goal. The argument is this upside is not worth the downsides that currently come with it.

Mendes mate Mendes!!! Nobody else gets that one against them at OT to win against the best team in the country. As the lawyers on the TV love saying: "The defence rests."

 

[JimmyG2]

Do you really think their was an improvement !! Another day we could and probably should of got hammered, VAR is a nonsense but the new rules are even more so

I agree with most of this
especially the new rules
and I said so on the blog.

The improvement was in the context of
our results against top six in general
and City in particular.
My opening line was
'How did we not lose that?
'
The Blog is well worth a read
even if I say so myself
as shouldn't.

 

[dagraham]

Mendes mate Mendes!!! Nobody else gets that one against them at OT to win against the best team in the country. As the lawyers on the TV love saying: "The defence rests."

But you don’t need VAR to ensure that Mendes goal situation would never occur again. Goal line technology has already sorted that.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Privately in the PGMOL post-weekend debrief meeting with all the referees on Monday, the referees (including Michael Oliver himself) all agreed it was an obvious error and have asked that the protocol be changed, so the VAR can rule on more subjective cases. Basically the referee wanted help in this incident, but the VAR protocol PL use didn't allow it. The PGMOL head will advise them of changes post this event, but nothing will be announced publicly, it will just be tweaking the high level of interference they have set.
I am still in contact with a couple of officials that were at that meeting.

Interesting. I was at a drinks function with someone who claimed to be in the VAR building at the time and he was saying what you have just described as the “for public consumption” line. I don’t know if he was fed it but he seemed to believe it. And it backed up my impression from the video.

But if there’s a private acknowledgment that the decision was incorrect why are they not being open about it? To protect Oliver or the process itself?

Shenanigans?

I totally understand why the referees are being careful with VAR. It's blatantly obvious there are so many anti-VAR people out there waiting to jump on anything that happens. Just look at how a significant deflection off a hand (an out-swinging corner ending up on the edge of our six yard box) has been trivialised as a 'brush' off of a hand in the public hive mind already.

In the world cup we seemed to have multiple penalties every day for holding and handballs, I'm sure they are aware of that and didn't want a repeat, I genuinely think that may have been a big factor in why the Lamela pen didn't happen. I think that will be given all the time once things have calmed down a bit, so this stuff about changing protocols makes a lot of sense to me. I'm certain they want to keep the VAR incidents to a minimum early on, as it gives too much fuel to the angry horde. We've actually had quite a minimal amount of VAR issues across 20 games and I'm already tired of the criticism of it.

 

[Trotter]

I totally understand why the referees are being careful with VAR. It's blatantly obvious there are so many anti-VAR people out there waiting to jump on anything that happens. Just look at how a significant deflection off a hand (an out-swinging corner ending up on the edge of our six yard box) has been trivialised as a 'brush' off of a hand in the public hive mind already.

In the world cup we seemed to have multiple penalties every day for holding and handballs, I'm sure they are aware of that and didn't want a repeat, I genuinely think that may have been a big factor in why the Lamela pen didn't happen. I think that will be given all the time once things have calmed down a bit, so this stuff about changing protocols makes a lot of sense to me. I'm certain they want to keep the VAR incidents to a minimum early on, as it gives too much fuel to the angry horde. We've actually had quite a minimal amount of VAR issues across 20 games and I'm already tired of the criticism of it.

Actually at the start of the World Cup, yes whilst there were plenty of handballs, referees and subsequently VAR were not calling any of the holding (remember the England v. Tunisia game as an example, there were countless others in the first round of matches). it was only after a real backlash that this changed and they started calling these offences, starting with our game against Panama and that theme continued.

That is what is probably going to happen over here, bar has been set too high, where VAR was basically told they should not get involved in any subjective decisions, and over time that bar will come down.

 

['O Zio]

VAR is joyless, miserable horseshit. I want sport, not science. I like uncertainty and chaos. They're fun. They're part of the game. Clinical administrative precision is not. I'm open to changing my mind, but at the moment VAR is all rolling out exactly as I feared it would.

I'd be all in favour of scrapping VAR if everyone agreed to just judge the ref based on what he's seen live rather than micro analysing everything in slow motion on the TV and then hammering the ref who had a half-second glimpse at what happened from 30 yds away. Either we have replays or we don't but if you're going to deny the ref access to them, then you can't simultaneously use a replay to judge them with if you get what I mean. Unfortunately we all absoloutely hammer the refs every time they get a decision wrong and the result of that is that we've had to give them access to VAR, which is fair enough IMO

Personally I think VAR will be a success in the long run, but there is obviously a lot of tweaking to be done, especially with regards to the in-stadium situation, which they've already acknowledged needs looking into. However, ultimately I think most of the issues we've had with VAR so far have not really been caused by VAR but rather caused by some of the completely impractical rules. VAR has just highlighted how wishy-washy some of the rules are and how difficult it is to apply them consistently as a result.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I continue to be perplexed by anybody who thinks, VAR or no VAR, that a goal scored as a direct result of the ball being hugely misdirected by an arm should have stood. It wasn’t a mild brush, it wasn’t likely to hit another part of Laportes’s body had it not hit his arm, it was a significant deflection. Accidental or otherwise, it has to be ruled out because you know what, it is impossible to 100% say he didn’t mean to handle it. The only way, literally, to get consistency for that particular situation is to have a strict liability, non mens rea dependent rule, which we have.

As for the fact that there’s a different approach taken to defenders handling in the box, that’s because a goal being scored tangible affects the outcome of the match, a ball being cleared/ intercepted doesn’t.

 

[buckley]

Well said bring back legin it seems simple and better defined laws than before VAR .
Mike Deans agenda is going to be buggered by VAR thank goodness.

 

[Lighty64]

Well said bring back legin it seems simple and better defined laws than before VAR .
Mike Deans agenda is going to be buggered by VAR thank goodness.

doubt it VAR doesn't effect wrong free kicks or corners that should be goal kicks

 

[buckley]

Agreed but he will know his actions and decisions are going to be under the microscope so to speak and perhaps he might ref as should be . Both sides equal and try to make correct calls and this has not been the case with this bloke in recent past . his anti spurs decisions beggar belief and I still think this bloke should not be allowed to ref our games . I am a saddo I know.

 

[dagraham]

Agreed but he will know his actions and decisions are going to be under the microscope so to speak and perhaps he might ref as should be . Both sides equal and try to make correct calls and this has not been the case with this bloke in recent past . his anti spurs decisions beggar belief and I still think this bloke should not be allowed to ref our games . I am a saddo I know.

The thing is every set of fans think the same about Dean and their own team.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I've been thinking about the uproar over this accidental handball thing and actually from watching and playing (grass-roots) a lot of football over the years was it not already pretty common for a ref to blow up when a player gains control of the ball via accidental handball? Can certainly remember it happening to me quite a few times in youth football/sunday league, and often in PL football where players get called up for handball but replays show it hitting the chest.

There has always been a disconnect between attacking and defending over handball as far as I can remember. For me if you create a goal via your hand/arm, it was always in the ref's rights to pull it up, accidental or not. Feels harsh, but in the end you had an unfair advantage.

I feel like there is a lot of trivialisation going on right now to fit the anti-VAR agenda. It's far from perfect currently, but it will improve over time and I think long term it's best for the game. As Mourinho said 'Only thieves complain about the introduction of security cameras'.

 

[fletch82]

Do you really think their was an improvement !! Another day we could and probably should of got hammered, VAR is a nonsense but the new rules are even more so

So just to get this right.
You think people should be allowed to score goals when a handball occurs because they maybe didn't mean it ?

 

[Trotter]

So just to get this right.
You think people should be allowed to score goals when a handball occurs because they maybe didn't mean it ?

Well to be fair, that has always been the case in 150 plus years of football, until this season, countless goals have been scored down the years with an accidental handball included in the build-up, and has never been an issue.
I am firmly of opinion, the goalscorer should not be able to use hand (accidental or not) but if something occurs in the build-up that would otherwise go unpenalised, then it still should.

 

[Shadydan]

Well to be fair, that has always been the case in 150 plus years of football, until this season, countless goals have been scored down the years with an accidental handball included in the build-up, and has never been an issue.
I am firmly of opinion, the goalscorer should not be able to use hand (accidental or not) but if something occurs in the build-up that would otherwise go unpenalised, then it still should.

If a attackers hand alters the trajectory and the direction of the ball resulting in a goal then it's extremely unfair to the defending team.

We want to stop incidents like these: