Spurs and VAR

[thekneaf]

I’ve heard it all now. Hojbjerg doesn’t block his run, he doesn’t move deliberately across him to block Joelinton, he stands his ground as he is entitled to do. Joelinton at 6ft 1, notices he has given the ball alway in a dangerous position for us to counter and seal dives into Hojbjerg. If anything the foul is the other way.

The video in that link proves it wasn't a free kick and that the referee was in a position to see it.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

But certain things are not decided by clear and obvious, that is only for subjective decisions.

Offsides, whether an offence occurred inside or outside the penalty box and now handballs are not subjective decisions, but matter of fact, they either are, or they are not.

Theoretically, that is true, of course.

But, in practice, even some VAR offside decisions are subjective. That's because, with some of the tightest calls (and there have been some incredibly tight calls), the technology simply isn't accurate enough to determine the exact position of each player at the exact moment that the ball is passed forward.Nor are the angles drawn across the pitch from each camera angle sufficiently accurate.

So, in these instances, the VAR official has to make a judgement call which probably has a 50% chance of being wrong.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Well last season we actually gained the most points of any team in the league due to VAR decisions.
There will be websites keeping a "Without VAR" League table, but this early in the season pointless looking at them.

We might also have lost the most points as a consequence of VAR decisions.

Because "VAR decisions" should include all those times when VAR fails to intervene when it should. The kind of charts that you are talking about only include VAR decisions that were made; not VAR decisions that were missed.

 

[WiganSpur]

MLS has been using the audio between the head official and the VAR in the return to play tournament they've been doing and it's been pretty fascinating to hear:

Is there a reason they can't do this in the PL? They do it in rugby as well don't they? Surely would at least stop the VAR officials hiding and forces some accountability and a bit of deliberation.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Never going to happen but time for the senior star internationals of the world such as Kane etc to "retire" from International football in protest against this nonsense handball law, where would UEFA and FIFA be with their Europe & World Cup competitions with no stars of the game involved . Cricketers defied the ruling bodies of cricket years ago to play for Kerry Packer , time for footballers to stand up and defy the rulers of the game.

 

[nailsy]

This weekend showed how obvious is match fixing in Premier League. I am tired of this corrupt League.

As soon as the match finished I called my broadband an cancelled my subscription to the channel responsible to transmit PL here.

For now on this league won't have my money. I will only watch illegal streams through VPN.

Please explain this.

Arguably VAR didn't give the decision -the ref did. VAR couldn't decide it was a clear handball. Once this is the case-the ref shouldn't be allowed to view the action again once he has missed it on the field of play. What will he see that VAR couldn't. VAR is there to spot moments that the ref could miss NOT to encourage him to revisit a situation and give him that power. VAR is corrupt and will be used by refs to support the stronger clubs. Its a back door to allow bias for the teams that have always enjoy that advantage with refs. (yes I am angry!!)

Ever since VAR was introduced we've had people saying the refs should review incidents on the screens. Now they are we're going to start moaning about them doing it?

@MK Yid You are definitely are ref aren't you?

Yes, he is.

In regards to @MK Yid the rule clearly states that leeway shoud be given if the player cannot see the ball so the referee has not applied the rule properly as Dier quite clearly has his back to the ball.

Ok with that cleared up do I think VAR is corrupt no.

The problem we have is that VAR it is an industry now.
Who runs the tech?
How many people are employed?

The handball rule has been altered to aid VAR decisions, make it black and white as you say.

However the beauty of football is in it's nuance.

I fell in love with the beautiful game.

Can you give us a link to the rules where it says that?

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

IFAB have issued many diagrams of what they regard as unnaturally bigger, and many videos
It is not a judgement of was a player unnaturally bigger for the situation he was in, it is as black and white as "Was the players arms by his side or directly in front or behind so not enlarging his silhouette YES/NO. No exception to this, however hard you want to look or argue.

The problem here is with the use of the word "unnaturally". It's a bullshit description to get refs and FIFA off the hook for bad decisions and rule making.

There was nothing unnatural, in the true meaning of the word, in the positioning of Dier's arm.

And, to save you from repeating yourself, I'm not (nor have I ever been) disputing how referees are interpreting / have been told to interpret the new law. I'm merely saying that the wording is bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Can you give us a link to the rules where it says that?

Ifab’s instruction
The International Football Association Board (Ifab) is the body that determines the laws of the game of football. An amendment to the handball rule they made was ensuring that an accidental handball will only be punished if it occurs “immediately” before a goal was scored. If play continues for some time after this, accidental handball will not be penalised.
If the ball strikes a player who has made their body “unnaturally bigger”, then they will be punished. Ifab deems that an arm above shoulder height is rarely, if ever, a “natural” position, with the only exception coming when a player is falling to the ground.
The body also stated that extra leeway will be granted in regards to ricocheted handballs, or if the player in question cannot see the ball

The above is taken from the Independent written by Andrew Gamble a day or so ago.

Edit: He goes onto write

The Premier League appears to ignore the unnatural position ruling, focusing far more on the bottom of the armpit update.
It is all well and good ensuring that attacking players will not gain an advantage, but now it appears that accidental handball for a defensive player will not be tolerated in any shape or form. Attacking players simply need to strike the ‘golden zone’ below the armpit and, in this modern world with VAR in place, they will be awarded a penalty.

Which seems insane ...

Edit: I'm glad I posted this first, it'd be insane of me to think the below post is not the same as mine ....

 

[tiger666]

It's from this: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rule-premier-league-2020-21-ifab-b625917.html

Ifab’s instruction
The International Football Association Board (Ifab) is the body that determines the laws of the game of football. An amendment to the handball rule they made was ensuring that an accidental handball will only be punished if it occurs “immediately” before a goal was scored. If play continues for some time after this, accidental handball will not be penalised.
If the ball strikes a player who has made their body “unnaturally bigger”, then they will be punished. Ifab deems that an arm above shoulder height is rarely, if ever, a “natural” position, with the only exception coming when a player is falling to the ground.
The body also stated that extra leeway will be granted in regards to ricocheted handballs, or if the player in question cannot see the ball.

Premier League interpretation
The Premier League – and crucially, the FA – seems to interpret the rule slightly differently and far more harshly regarding defenders.
The Premier League appears to ignore the unnatural position ruling, focusing far more on the bottom of the armpit update.
It is all well and good ensuring that attacking players will not gain an advantage, but now it appears that accidental handball for a defensive player will not be tolerated in any shape or form. Attacking players simply need to strike the ‘golden zone’ below the armpit and, in this modern world with VAR in place, they will be awarded a penalty.

 

[easley91]

The video in that link proves it wasn't a free kick and that the referee was in a position to see it.

The more I watch, the more I get annoyed again. He in pro wrestling terms went for a shoulder tackle akin to Cena or Warrior.

 

[nailsy]

It's from this: https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rule-premier-league-2020-21-ifab-b625917.html

Ifab’s instruction
The International Football Association Board (Ifab) is the body that determines the laws of the game of football. An amendment to the handball rule they made was ensuring that an accidental handball will only be punished if it occurs “immediately” before a goal was scored. If play continues for some time after this, accidental handball will not be penalised.
If the ball strikes a player who has made their body “unnaturally bigger”, then they will be punished. Ifab deems that an arm above shoulder height is rarely, if ever, a “natural” position, with the only exception coming when a player is falling to the ground.
The body also stated that extra leeway will be granted in regards to ricocheted handballs, or if the player in question cannot see the ball.

Premier League interpretation
The Premier League – and crucially, the FA – seems to interpret the rule slightly differently and far more harshly regarding defenders.
The Premier League appears to ignore the unnatural position ruling, focusing far more on the bottom of the armpit update.
It is all well and good ensuring that attacking players will not gain an advantage, but now it appears that accidental handball for a defensive player will not be tolerated in any shape or form. Attacking players simply need to strike the ‘golden zone’ below the armpit and, in this modern world with VAR in place, they will be awarded a penalty.

So there's guidance on how to interpret the rules, but it's not actually written down as part of the rules? And the Premier League are interpreting it in their own way as they like to do.

 

[easley91]

I still don't understand what was unnatural about where Dier's arm was? He jumped, was pushed and the ball hit him from BEHIND.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

So there's guidance on how to interpret the rules, but it's not actually written down as part of the rules? And the Premier League are interpreting it in their own way as they like to do.

So we got screwed. Seems about right then.

 

[Shadydan]

Well last season we actually gained the most points of any team in the league due to VAR decisions.
There will be websites keeping a "Without VAR" League table, but this early in the season pointless looking at them.

 

[nailsy]

So we got screwed. Seems about right then.

I think the rules are screwing everyone. When the opposition manager says it's not right you know there's a massive problem.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Haha!

A difference of 29 between us and Utd!

 

[Marty]

I think the rules are screwing everyone. When the opposition manager says it's not right you know there's a massive problem.

Also when Pep, who neither has had a call for or against under this new rule yet, also says it's not right you know how broad the consensus is.

 

[Jamturk]

Also by implication a ref being sent to review an incident on the screen is already under pressure to reverse his decision.

Am i right in understanding that the ref Peter Banks is inexperienced at Premier league level?

 

[nailsy]

The more I watch, the more I get annoyed again. He in pro wrestling terms went for a shoulder tackle akin to Cena or Warrior.
View attachment 74932

I've got to admit that I'm not that upset by that decision. The ref got it wrong, but mistakes happen. As far as I'm aware the VAR team can't overrule him on that decision as it doesn't fall into one of the categories that they can review? It's the rules that mean that a deflected ball hit at you from inches away can result in a penalty that really annoy me.

 

[tiger666]

Edit: I'm glad I posted this first, it'd be insane of me to think the below post is not the same as mine ....

What's with the shitty comment? You've edited your post to include what I posted. Originally your post consisted of

"Ifab’s instruction

The International Football Association Board (Ifab) is the body that determines the laws of the game of football. An amendment to the handball rule they made was ensuring that an accidental handball will only be punished if it occurs “immediately” before a goal was scored. If play continues for some time after this, accidental handball will not be penalised.
If the ball strikes a player who has made their body “unnaturally bigger”, then they will be punished. Ifab deems that an arm above shoulder height is rarely, if ever, a “natural” position, with the only exception coming when a player is falling to the ground.
The body also stated that extra leeway will be granted in regards to ricocheted handballs, or if the player in question cannot see the ball

The above is taken from the Guardian written by Andrew Gamble a day or so ago. "

I gave the full text of the article and a link to it.