Rule change needed

[StartingPrice]

1) The rules are clear that the holders get an automatic spot actually which trumps league position.



2) Oh I dunno, because they are the Champions of Europe?

1) Well done for not answering the point about Chelsea easing up on their league form. The rules, as you seem to be finding it difficult to understand, were clear when Liverpool won and finsihed outside of the CL places via the league - it didn;t stop them appealing, did it!

2) Oh, I dunno, because the rules say that the team that finishes 4th has EARNED a spot in the CL (not deserved, but earned!), and we finished two clear places above them.

Anyway, there is a subtelty you just do not seem to be getting: no-one is saying that Chelsea should nahve there place taken away and given to us, so why are you even making that an issue. What I, personally, have said is not even that we should be given a place in the CL; it is that we should request compensation. Why? Because the rules omit to adequately discuss it, just like the rules omitted to include anything about the Champions being given a pass into the CL the next season when they fail to qualify via their league position - it didn't stop Liverpool appealing.

There are any number of anomolies, and continually repeating the matra that the rules were clear just demonstrates how poorly you have understood the arguments you are trying to counter.

 

[Franchise60]

I was responding to the OP of the thread and shelf side not you. I don't really care if you think we should be compensated and not let in, I wasnt responding to your post.

I am not answering the point about Chelsea letting up in the league because it has no real merit of being in the discussion and is basically useless.

Little less condescension would go a long way, not making your argument any better but at least readable.

 

[mil1lion]

I agree that Chelsea should be in next years tournament. Afterall it is called the Champions League, and Chelsea are the European Champions. If anything they have more right to be there than Arsenal and Man Utd.

But I don't think it should be at the expense of us. I think it's harsh that other teams who finished in 4th qualify yet just because a team from England who finished 6th won the tournament we miss out. It's harsh on us.

Ultimately we have only ourselves to blame though. Lets be honest, had we beat Villa we would all be laughing at Arsenal missing out.

 

[StartingPrice]

I was responding to the OP of the thread, not you. I don't really care if you think we should be compensated and not let in, I wasnt responding to your post.

I am not answering the point about Chelsea letting up in the league because it has no real merit of being in the discussion and is basically useless.

Little less condescension would go a long way, not making your argument any better but at least readable.

Actually, if you go to the bottom of the last page, you will find that you directly quoted my post. You broke it in two. I read your answer as very condescending, hence my deliberately condescending response.

Perhaps actually being aware of which posts you have quoted, and not being, iitially, condescending might make your arguements (though you only seem to have one - that the rule book says) more readable, if no better.

I wholeheartedly disagree. The issue of whether Chelsea eased up in the league has real relevance.

 

[Franchise60]

You always this obtuse or just when you are wrong?

 

[ShelfSide18]

 

[Qualsonic]

You always this obtuse or just when you are wrong?

No, no, even when he's right.

 

[StartingPrice]

You always this obtuse or just when you are wrong?

Er, where am I being obtuse?

Er, where am I wrong: in holding an opinion different to yours and being prepared to argue it? Or in stating that when you said you were answering the OP, in response to my post that quoted your post that quoted your post, you were wrong and should go back and check?

 

[Franchise60]

My original post in this thread wasn't directed at you and you started our conversation by quoting my post and responding to me. That was my point and how you were being obtuse. Thanks for reminding me multiple times I quoted one of your posts responding to me multiple times, I really had a hard time keeping track of my 4 posts itt (that is sarcasm for you, I will help you out so that you can keep up properly).

You are a bully, I've seen it before and just because I have a low post count doesn't mean this is my first rodeo so kindly either ignore me or concentrate your pompous bullshit in someone else's direction. Thanks.

 

[vegassd]

But I don't think it should be at the expense of us. I think it's harsh that other teams who finished in 4th qualify yet just because a team from England who finished 6th won the tournament we miss out. It's harsh on us.

But who should miss out? Imagine if some team from Slovakia won it but didn't qualify via their own league and we got booted out because it was a random pick! Gotta be from the same nation or an alternative shift in the qualifying stages to accommodate one extra team.

The compensation idea is a bit more interesting SP, although how would you decide on a price? You could argue that our potential earnings in the CL would be higher than a lot of other teams, but surely it would have to be one size fits all or it's just too complicated. And I would have thought that the prestige and player-pull that actual qualification has would far outweigh any one-off payment anyway, so the compensation would have to be huge to be of value, and I can't imagine that happening.

Not sure why Chelsea prioritising the CL over the PL is any issue at all. All clubs prioritise. And they should be allowed to utilise their squad any way they want surely?

 

[StartingPrice]

My original post wasn't in this thread wasn't directed at you and you started our conversation by quoting my post and responding to me. That was my point and how you were being obtuse. Thanks for reminding me multiple times I quoted one of your posts responding to me multiple times, I really had a hard time keeping track of my 4 posts itt (that is sarcasm for you, I will help you out so that you can keep up properly).

You are a bully, I've seen it before and just because I have a low post count doesn't mean this is my first rodeo so kindly either ignore me or concentrate your pompous bullshit in someone else's direction. Thanks.

I am a bully because I responded to one of your posts, in, what I see, still, as a perfectly legitimate way, and in no way looking for a fight, just asking legitimate questions? Strange.

I thought it was wholly appropriate to point out that you quoted my post, and then I quoted your post quoting my post, because in response to that post quoting your post quoting my post, you said you were responding to the OP. Which doesn;t actually make sense, does it.

I get it, you are one of these posters who likes to to be condescending, but then when someone is condescending back you get all upset that someone has challenged your innate (and, seemingly, wholly inflated) sense of worth.

I don't need your help on anything, thanks, you pompous numpty. I also have no problems recognising sarcasm...you are the one who seems to struggle (you quote posts and then when someone quotes the post you quoted you start waffling on about answering the OP).

I never mentioned your post count. If you had made an intelligent post, rather than saying the same thing constantly, no matter what arguements you are presented with, I would have ignored your low post count. If you had said something ridiculous (funnily enough, you did), I wouldn't have cared les if you had 500,000 posts under your belt.

I will gladly put you on ignore because, frankly, from present evidence, I would give you 9 1/2 out of 10 in aggression, inability to comprehend posts and inflated ego, and 1 out of 10 for intelligence.
Please, reciprocate so that I never have to interract with you again.

 

[Franchise60]

lol

 

[Sir Henry]

All I'll say on this, is had that been Utd in 4th and Cheatski won the CL. Utd would be in the CL right now.

 

[mil1lion]

What's annoying me is that everytime I see the Premier League table it has a dashed line under our name. I always thought that stood for something. Nothing says official like the dashed line.

 

[vegassd]

All I'll say on this, is had that been Utd in 4th and Cheatski won the CL. Utd would be in the CL right now.

You don't know that at all. It's pretty ridiculous to simply think that certain clubs have complete sway over UEFA. I know it's very "cool" to think there's a big conspiracy against us but I just don't think it's true.

What would UEFA give as their reasoning, and how would it allow them to continue to govern European competitions with any sort of control?

 

[Bingy]

I havent read the whole thread so I dont know if it has already been suggested, but in the eventuality of this happening again, how about a two legged affair with whoever finishes fourth or last qualifying position for that nation, playing the winners ?
I definately think Chelsea should be given a wildcard entry into the competition for winning it, but not at the expense of whoever finishes fourth, the potential damage to a club like ours could possibly set us back years.

I agree that, as Champions, a team should be allowed to 'defend' their CL Crown, but NOT at the expense of another club who have worked, over a long, long period of years, to qualify to partake in the competition, in the first place. Surely Uefa can see that qualification is a 5/6 year process (unless, like Shiity, Chelski you BUT it!) and that allowing the CL Winners to 'reoffend' (in Chelskis case!) is quite unacceptable, and wrong. Whilst it does not happen on a regular basis, it happens....and could be 'settled', quite easily, by allowing the 4th place team (in the EPL case, OUR case) to slot IN at an early stage....but, without getting into the Politics of European Football, IT CAN BE DONE! (and may yet be done, IF we are to listen to some quaters of the Press!) We await developments......COYS!

 

[StartingPrice]

You don't know that at all. It's pretty ridiculous to simply think that certain clubs have complete sway over UEFA. I know it's very "cool" to think there's a big conspiracy against us but I just don't think it's true.

What would UEFA give as their reasoning, and how would it allow them to continue to govern European competitions with any sort of control?

"Eeh-eerrrrrrm, Ladies and Gentlemans, we would just like to confirm that Manchester united have been allowed into the CL group stages, despite failing to qualify through their domestic league. Our rational for doing this is that we are sycophantic money grubbing whores, and a bunch of spineless s. Thankyou for your attention."

 

[vegassd]

 

[nidge]

Just thought I would post the actual rules. It would appear that only countries with 4 CL entries would suffer the same fate as us.

II Entries – Admission – Integrity of the Competition – Duties

Article 2​

​

Number of clubs per UEFA member association​

​

2.01 UEFA member associations (hereinafter associations) may enter a certain number of clubs for the competition, in accordance with their position in the coefficient rankings in Annex Ia, drawn up in accordance with Annex II of these regulations. However, no association may enter more than four clubs for the competition. These rankings also determine the stage at which clubs join the competition.​

​

2.02 Associations are represented on the following basis:​

a) One representative: winner of the top domestic league championship.​

b) Two representatives: winner and runner-up of the top domestic league​

championship.​

c) Three representatives: winner, runner-up and third-placed club in the top​

domestic league championship.​

d) Four representatives: winner, runner-up, third- and fourth-placed clubs in​

the top domestic league championship.​

​

Titleholder​

​

2.03 The UEFA Champions League titleholder is guaranteed a place in the group stage even if it does not qualify for the competition through its domestic championship.​

​

a) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to four places in the UEFA Champions League and qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the lowest-ranked club of the association’s UEFA Champions League representatives is automatically transferred to the UEFA Europa League (into the latest possible round where there is a vacancy). In this case, the number of places to which the titleholder's association is entitled in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League does not change.​

​

b) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to four places in the UEFA Champions League and does not qualify for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, the lowest-ranked club of the association’s UEFA Champions League representatives is automatically transferred to the UEFA Europa League (into the latest possible round where there is a vacancy). In this case, the association of the titleholder is entitled to one additional place in the UEFA Europa League.​

​

c) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to fewer than four places in the UEFA Champions League and qualifies for the UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, it is entitled to play in the UEFA Champions League in addition to the association’s other UEFA Champions League representative(s). In this case, the combined number of places to which the titleholder's association is entitled in the UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League does not change.​

​

d) If the titleholder comes from an association entitled to fewer than four places in the UEFA Champions League and does not qualify for the UEFA Champions League or UEFA Europa League through its domestic competitions, it is entitled to play in the UEFA Champions League in addition to the association’s other UEFA Champions League representative(s). In this case, the association of the titleholder is entitled to one additional place in the UEFA Champions League.​

​

 

[StartingPrice]

Thanks, Nidge.

We have discussed, above, the fact that it is only ****ries that get 4 places who suffer this fate.