Pochs training and lactic acid

[Shadydan]

I can never take this guy seriously because he comes across as smug and a know it all. He'd probably get better feedback on the forum if he presented his opinions less aggressively and by allowing the reader to have an open mind but nope it reads like we must believe his opinions and take them as gospel. Seriously he's just a budget version of Raymond Van Heijen, just sounds to me like he's attention seeking and when you think about it you wonder if you know so much why aren't you in some sort of professional coaching role yourself?

Half the posts on this site are funny in a way and that includes the posts about tactics, all that effort people go to to prove people at the top of their professions wrong, you wonder all that time you spent replying to people and trying to prove your theories correct, you could have put together a dossier and try and apply for a role in some sort of professional football capacity.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I'm happy to admit my ignorance, a little knowledge is sometimes more dangerous than none at all.........My doctorate is in pooing so I have nothing to add to the debate other than for poo-ers, the best way of recovering from the ring-sting brought about by curling out an extra firm coke-can of a log is to slip a finger covered in vaseline up your bumhole.

I have yet to find a way of applying this to professional footballers, the ****s eat too healthily and probably poo little goatshit style nuggets but when I do you can be sure i'll be in touch with Daniel Levy.

Anyway, none of this has much to do with this thread so i'll apologise for going slightly off topic and bow out with a quick reminder that people should be nice to eachother, particularly at this time of year.

 

[Lemon]

Of course I understand that, I studied a physio degree and some of the modules were focused on exercise nutrition, and much of cardio respiratory and neuro science modules dealt with waste productution of latic acid (for example during a stroke when oxygen is denied and atp production switches no anaerobic methods during the ischaemic cascade and produces lactic acid as a consequence)

I'm familiar with the science of what you are talking from my own studies

What I am saying is the exercise this study under took bares little to no relevance to performance in football matches

They had the study perform knee extensions at hypertrophy to mild endurance rep ranges and then did some very basic analysis with only 8 participants and no control group

Basically the study was pointless and it would seem had an agenda to prove a point they wanted to prove

At best you could say the study doesn't dismiss their claims and could at least justify further research in to the area

Now, I don't think anyone has called you stupid. I certainly have not, despite you previously labelling my knowledge of basic nutrition unworthy of your discussion without knowing what I have or haven't learned on the subjects

I didn't take what you said to me as an insult as I could see that you are passionate on the subject and were simply getting frustrated that people didn't seem to be taking you seriously when you were only doing your best to share your knowledge with the forum and create debate

I think you should take people's jestful responses less seriously, don't get frustrated or offended and since you clearly have a passion for these subjects and want to discuss them on this forum with fellow spurs fans you should continue to do so

You've clearly read up on these things and as such you have plenty of worthy knowledge that merits discussion

What I would say is perhaps you should try discussing in a little more laymen terms for the general population who have not studied post graduate level science and you may get better responses (and probably not make claims like if you were a consultant at the club wed be top of the league - although I suspect that was very much tongue in cheek)

It's just my advise and you don't have to listen but I feel if you tried to come across a little less know it all/preachy and used more laymen terms and engaged more in discussion than lecture you would probably be received a lot better by the average audience an you'd be able to get across all the information you've studied in the last few years more effectively

As I said though clearly you have a passion for this stuff and clearly you want to share what you've learned with people on this forum so don't shy away from doing it out of frustration that people make jokes or do not agree with you

It's only a forum after all, not everyone will agree with you

Agree almost entirely, but sadly I don't really know how to convey this more humbly, or layman, I've really been trying I thought!

Thought I had a pop in retaliation, sorry if it was not that way. I like you shea, you're on my 'read his thoughts' list.

Agree the study doesn't prove anything, it just backs up the potential merit in my thinking (and I understand the biochemistry a little, so happen to understand recovery much deeper than I had realised). Perhaps a few folks with Gout, or arthritis etcetera might google MSM/LypoC/Kelp and find something really useful in my thoughts, the club stuff is of course in jest, in hope of stimulating discussion, to tempt a reaction.

My wife just had our second child last week, so I can't commit to this thread at the moment, sadly.

 

[Shea]

Agree almost entirely, but sadly I don't really know how to convey this more humbly, or layman, I've really been trying I thought!

Thought I had a pop in retaliation, sorry if it was not that way. I like you shea, you're on my 'read his thoughts' list.

Agree the study doesn't prove anything, it just backs up the potential merit in my thinking (and I understand the biochemistry a little, so happen to understand recovery much deeper than I had realised). Perhaps a few folks with Gout, or arthritis etcetera might google MSM/LypoC/Kelp and find something really useful in my thoughts, the club stuff is of course in jest, in hope of stimulating discussion, to tempt a reaction.

My wife just had our second child last week, so I can't commit to this thread at the moment, sadly.

I'm just trying to think of a way you can get to discuss your thoughts and views on a subject you are clearly passionate about without getting the dismissive responses that have caused you frustration of late

As I say clearly you have spent time researching and reading up on these subjects so whether people agree or not with what you say your thoughts have merit and are more than worthy of discussion imo

I just think out of frustration at times you've become about preachy and at times condescending to posters and this prevents any discussion developing as it becomes more of a shit throwing contest than a dicussing/debate

Congratulations on your child, but when you have more time don't be discouraged from continuing to express your views on here.

Just because there is little evidence for these things doesn't mean they are without merit - perhaps it just suggests that its an area where research should be conducted further

 

[Lilbaz]

I'm happy to admit my ignorance, a little knowledge is sometimes more dangerous than none at all.........My doctorate is in pooing so I have nothing to add to the debate other than for poo-ers, the best way of recovering from the ring-sting brought about by curling out an extra firm coke-can of a log is to slip a finger covered in vaseline up your bumhole.

I have yet to find a way of applying this to professional footballers, the ****s eat too healthily and probably poo little goatshit style nuggets but when I do you can be sure i'll be in touch with Daniel Levy.

Anyway, none of this has much to do with this thread so i'll apologise for going slightly off topic and bow out with a quick reminder that people should be nice to eachother, particularly at this time of year.

Does it matter which finger? And will it turn me gay?

 

[pffft]

Does it matter which finger? And will it turn me gay?

1)Yes, but it's different for everybody so no-one can tell you.
2)Only if you choose the wrong finger.

 

[peter_the_yid]

I can never take this guy seriously because he comes across as smug and a know it all. He'd probably get better feedback on the forum if he presented his opinions less aggressively and by allowing the reader to have an open mind but nope it reads like we must believe his opinions and take them as gospel. Seriously he's just a budget version of Raymond Van Heijen, just sounds to me like he's attention seeking and when you think about it you wonder if you know so much why aren't you in some sort of professional coaching role yourself?

Half the posts on this site are funny in a way and that includes the posts about tactics, all that effort people go to to prove people at the top of their professions wrong, you wonder all that time you spent replying to people and trying to prove your theories correct, you could have put together a dossier and try and apply for a role in some sort of professional football capacity.

To be fair I have most of the qualifications PL teams fitness staff have and I don't work in the biz either. Just the paths our lives head down!

In my experience with football fitness staff the only mandatory things I've heard them say they use for recovery etc is
- Protein + glucose powder mix
- Massages
- Creatine supplements (Thank Wenger for this)
- Contrast baths (controversial)

Otherwise nothing much else is enforced on players, they get quite a bit of time off most weeks anyway.

 

[Shea]

To be fair I have most of the qualifications PL teams fitness staff have and I don't work in the biz either. Just the paths our lives head down!

In my experience with football fitness staff the only mandatory things I've heard them say they use for recovery etc is
- Protein + glucose powder mix
- Massages
- Creatine supplements (Thank Wenger for this)
- Contrast baths (controversial)

Otherwise nothing much else is enforced on players, they get quite a bit of time off most weeks anyway.

Why is the contrast bath controversial?

They were being used by team gb athlete back when my friend was still sprinting

Although his coach maintained than an ice bath was more effective than the contrast bath

Have people suggested that the contrast bath may he determental in some way?

 

[Ionman34]

I suppose it would be a significant sample if they all died from exploding arses the next morning.

Though further tests would still be necessary.

Volunteers?

Nope,

Nah. He's just bitter.

Loike the Murphy's?

 

[Ionman34]

Why is the contrast bath controversial?

They were being used by team gb athlete back when my friend was still sprinting

Although his coach maintained than an ice bath was more effective than the contrast bath

Have people suggested that the contrast bath may he determental in some way?

Is the contrast bath that cubicle that pumps out Nitogen (I think) that drops temperature to sub zero?
I saw a report in Oz on one of them used by one of the Rugby league teams, their physio's swore by it and claimed it increased recovery time significantly by driving out lactic acid.

I don't think it was built by Smithklinebeecham so it's probably ethically ok

 

[Shea]

Is the contrast bath that cubicle that pumps out Nitogen (I think) that drops temperature to sub zero?
I saw a report in Oz on one of them used by one of the Rugby league teams, their physio's swore by it and claimed it increased recovery time significantly by driving out lactic acid.

I don't think it was built by Smithklinebeecham so it's probably ethically ok

It switches between extremes of temperature hot/cold with the aim of manipulating bloodflow but causing vasodilation and vasoconstriction respectively (making the aretries wider and smaller and therefore altering the relationship between pressure and volume)

So yes it would help oxidation of damaged tissues and therefore promote better repair as well as more effectively pumping toxins and lactic acid out via the lymphatic system

 

[Ionman34]

It switches between extremes of temperature hot/cold with the aim of manipulating bloodflow but causing vasodilation and vasoconstriction respectively (main the aretries wider and smaller and therefore altering the relationship between pressure and volume)

So yes it would help oxidation of damaged tissues and therefore promote better repair as well as more effectively pumping toxins and lactic acid out via the lymphatic system

Thought so...

 

[peter_the_yid]

Why is the contrast bath controversial?

They were being used by team gb athlete back when my friend was still sprinting

Although his coach maintained than an ice bath was more effective than the contrast bath

Have people suggested that the contrast bath may he determental in some way?

Only controversial in the sense some professionals doubt they really make any difference. I personally found they helped me in the past.

 

[Shea]

Only controversial in the sense some professionals doubt they really make any difference. I personally found they helped me in the past.

What did you use it for?

 

[peter_the_yid]

What did you use it for?

On a much less glamorous scale than footballers, but in Olympic Weightlifting I used to put my arms up to my elbows in these tubs of water the facility had. One was ice cold, the other very hot. Always made my wrists and hands feel better.

 

[Shea]

On a much less glamorous scale than footballers, but in Olympic Weightlifting I used to put my arms up to my elbows in these tubs of water the facility had. One was ice cold, the other very hot. Always made my wrists and hands feel better.

I think these practices//methods originated Olympic style weight lifting circles (I recall a story about Soviet lifters being punished for poor performance by having to go out and roll in the freezing snows and then it being observed that they started to recover and perform better as a result)

Did you do the lifting competitively? a young guy I know who I briefly taught biomechanics is currently trying to get in to the UK level/team for the power lifting, he's one rep max on squat is up to around 260 kg now I believe, not sure how much further he needs to progress before he reaches the elite level?

 

[peter_the_yid]

I think these practices//methods originated Olympic style weight lifting circles (I recall a story about Soviet lifters being punished for poor performance by having to go out and roll in the freezing snows and then it being observed that they started to recover and perform better as a result)

Did you do the lifting competitively? a young guy I know who I briefly taught biomechanics is currently trying to get in to the UK level/team for the power lifting, he's one rep max on squat is up to around 260 kg now I believe, not sure how much further he needs to progress before he reaches the elite level?

I never competed on a scale worth bragging about, just a few inter club contests.
I probably seemed pretty strong in your average gym but not in proper Oly circles.

260kg squat in power lifting is going to be national standard below the 83kg weight classes. If he is heavier than that then not national level just yet.

 

[Jack]

Bless.

The study was just from a quick browse to see if anyone had tried to study what I was thinking, not what made me think it. Similarly with the Uric acid study.

The posters on here should know, you are the person who argued with me on Glory-Glory that omega3 has no significant role to play in regulating inflammation, even when presented with study after study. You also steadfastly refused to accept that EPA and DHA were forms of N3, frankly your understanding of basic nutrition was laughable to put it politely, and I suspect still is.

P.S. you mispelt physiologically.

I've never been on Glory-Glory, I think you've got your wires crossed.

 

[Shea]

I never competed on a scale worth bragging about, just a few inter club contests.
I probably seemed pretty strong in your average gym but not in proper Oly circles.

260kg squat in power lifting is going to be national standard below the 83kg weight classes. If he is heavier than that then not national level just yet.

He's over 100kg slightly I believe

I briefly trained at an power lifting club in the Alexander stadium in Perry Barr briefly as it was next to my thai boxing club and I started training with the Olympic Wrestling club there

They weight lifting coach tried to get me in to the power lifting as he thought I would be good at it..... I wasn't

although maybe I could have gotten better had I learned better technique and spent more time training

I was busy with uni and muay thai back though

 

[neilp]

Does it matter which finger? And will it turn me gay?

It will if you use my finger.