- Jul 30, 2005
- 1,117
- 339
George Graham says hi
It would evoke similar feelings of hypocrisy and hatred for me. Fuck GGG. Fuck him. And fuck Mourinho.
George Graham says hi
Eriksen, maybe yes. At the very least one CB should be re-motivated and re-invested in. I would prefer for Vertonghen to find the groove, and I believe that's a potential. I actually don't mind Aurier that much, but if he wants to leave so be it.Still In for me
Out in Jan - Alderweireld, Eriksen, Aurier and Verthonghen
I do wonder how different our season would be if we had been able to sell these players last summer.Still In for me
Out in Jan - Alderweireld, Eriksen, Aurier and Verthonghen
So you do not understand the objections to Mourinho. I’ll try to be bring them together clearly but there may be others.
- Yes, his man management skills since he left Inter can be called into question. Top pros at Porto, Chelsea and Inter spoke in glowing terms about him - he had an aura, he was the special one. There are still players who love him but the shine has gone when you look at his record since summer 2010. It’s not just Luke fatty Shaw.
- He hasn’t overachieved since Inter. His most significant achievement this decade was winning the league with Chelsea. They deserved it and were good with an electric Hazard. It wasn’t a vintage edition though. City challenged but every other side was poor. We had Tim. Liverpool were in disarray. United and Arsenal were stagnating under vanGaal and Wenger.
Nothing else he has done this decade represents overachievement ie the manager really added significant value. We are still in a position where to compete we need to overachieve ie manager needs to add magic.
- Mourinho hasn’t developed players who are world class potential since his first spell at Chelsea. Young players dont develop under him. We are going to be in the market for the kind of player who Mourinho won’t develop. Unlike all of his clubs since Porto, we will not be buying ready-made world class players.
- He plays turgid football. That is not the Spurs way.
- He has notable instances of falling out with non-playing staff that creates instability at a club eg chairmen and doctors.
There we have 5 fairly substantial critiques of Mourinhos fit for our club. He’d be great at a PSG perhaps. But not at spurs. Even if just a couple of these are valid, we would be prudent to look elsewhere.
And yes some of these things are true now. But you don’t fire someone to hire in the same problems on more money.
Pochettino has deserved the slack he’s been given. Mourinho had no such credit to claim.When Mourinho got sacked by United they were 6th. So even at its ugly end with all the instability at Utd they were still 6th. Right now we’re 14th with at least in the public eye, less of an internal mess. Just a point.
Pochettino has deserved the slack he’s been given. Mourinho had no such credit to claim.
No thanks.fuck Mourinho.
I think that any manager who takes an ENIC operated club to CL 4 times in a row deserves some understanding. The question is whether that grace is already exhausted. I’m inclined to think it is.The only United manager since Ferguson to win trophies? I'd say that deserves at least as much slack as 'we played good football under Poch a few years back'.
Mourinho has done literally nothing in his career which would cause his appointment here to make the club we’ve all supported since childhood so morally unpalatable that we’d abandon it.
Those claiming otherwise are just attention seeking, sorry.
Mourinho wins trophies. Trophies win fans. Always have.
See Manchester City for details.
FYP10.5 bad months in 5 years, and in a year we reached the CL final.
Unbelievable to see so many people wanting him to go.
We've been progressing every year since he was appointed. A couple of bad months won't change that. He can have a bad season.
He stayed when Real Madrid wanted him and some of you want to repay that faith letting him go after a couple of bad months.
Look no further than how Kane has played if you want to know what he thinks.Might sound a bit silly or naive. But I honestly believe the best person to judge the situation is Kane. If I was Levy and I asked Kane and he said to me the guys are fully with poch bar the obvious 2 or 3 and Kane fully believed we could turn it round I’d probably stick with him. Of course the opposite is also true. It’s very rare for a Chairman to have someone like Kane in the dressing room that you could completely trust to give an informed honest opinion for the good of the club.
Except the public eye is rarely ever on Spurs. In reality, we are an internal mess and we’ve been one for quite a while.When Mourinho got sacked by United they were 6th. So even at its ugly end with all the instability at Utd they were still 6th. Right now we’re 14th with at least in the public eye, less of an internal mess. Just a point.
Van Gaal won the FA CupThe only United manager since Ferguson to win trophies? I'd say that deserves at least as much slack as 'we played good football under Poch a few years back'.
Afaik turnover is not the measure to use. It’s wages. That’s where the correlation with success lies. And it makes sense because the people who are going to make the biggest difference are the players on the pitch.Can't argue that although like you mentioned there are still some players who he managed fairly recently over the last decade who speak highly of him.
Chelsea had the 3rd highest turnover when they won the league in 2014/15, that's the very definition of over achieving. I'm not buying the argument that he only won the league because everyone was poor, that's like saying Poch only finished top 4 because everyone else weren't good enough.
Chelsea - see above.So you don't think he added significant value when he won the league with Chelsea and Real Madrid? Any manager we get in will need to overachieve so the question is why not a manager who has a history and experience of overachieving and winning?
Inter
Sneijder
Maicon
Milito
Real
Varane
Di Maria
Ozil
Khedira
Ramos
Chelsea
Fabregas
Azpilcueta
Matic
Hazard (Only time he's ever won POTY 2014/15)
It's true that he doesn't put as much focus towards young players as Poch does for example but in the context of our current club standing what young players are in desperate need of first team action that are actually good enough right now? It's not as if we have a conveyour belt of talent waiting to burst through at Tottenham, yes the like of Skipp and possibly Sessegnon may suffer but that doesn't worry me as much as losing our best players.
Fiat enough. If youre explicitly willing to trade good football for the hope of winning trophies then this point makes sense.Hate to say it but the Spurs way has been historically not winning any trophies, recently anyway. You either want to play majority attacking football and not pick up any pots or play majority defensive football which gives us more of a chance to pick up pots, I know what I'd prefer.
I don’t believe he’s a bad guy necessarily- let’s not turn him into a villain. But trouble has followed him at his last three clubs over a decade. He sure creates a stink when things don’t go his way ...One instance where he fell out with the club doctor that you can say that it was 100% his fault, all the other instances are the fault of both sides, for example he fell out with Woodward because he didn't back him with the players he wanted in his final year.
Bearing in mind my position to bring him in is based on a short term assignment and the fact that we'll probably lose Kane in a couple of years because he won't wait around for yet another rebuild, our team should still be at it's peak, I'm not buying that the likes of Alderweireld and Vertonghen are on their way down for example, I just think we're at a stage now where the players have been playing at a high intensity for such a long time, the natural progression for some of these players is to play at lower intensity in which Mourinho perfectly embodies.
I think as fans some of us are a bit delirious about our status as a club right now, we're not talking about the Tottenham of 5 years ago where we weren't seen an an also ran who say qualifying for the CL as a success. We're not talking about a team who had a small stadium, paid relatively low wages, a team who's revenue and spending budget had a limit. The period of austerity is over, we are on the map as a big club who with thanks to the stadium is only going to grow bigger in stature on and off the pitch so we deserve the best, it's about time we won something and despite all these grievances Mourinho still is the best candidate for me.
For me values are important. It’s not all about winning. It’s also about bringing through young players, including academy and English players, playing exciting attacking football and having respect for the game. All of these would be compromised with Mourinho and in return we are unlikely to win a top tier competition. No thanks.
Poch has fallen short for the past year in terms of playing style and hasn’t done enough for youth (although not too bad!). But as I keep saying, it’s not a choice between Poch and Mourinho. They aren’t the only two managers in the world. It’s a choice between Poch and someone better.Do you really believe Pochettino has done that consistently over his tenure, or that he will do? I struggle to believe his aura as the champion of youth. If it's not all about winning, we might as well be Leicester, Norwich, Peterborough or Dulwich Hamlet. And the exciting football? All too rare. Burkinshaw's teams I always found exciting. Poch for a while, but not consistently for a long while.
Afaik turnover is not the measure to use. It’s wages. That’s where the correlation with success lies. And it makes sense because the people who are going to make the biggest difference are the players on the pitch.
Chelsea had the highest wage bill that season.
But in any case, I acknowledged he did well that season. But for someone whose main selling point is being a winner, one significant success in a decade is not that great. And it’s less significant than we thought anyway because they had the highest wages and we expect the team with the highest wages to win.
Chelsea - see above.
Winning the league with Real Madrid ? Overachieving ? Come on. If you don’t win league or CL with Real Madrid then you’ve underachieved. They’re the biggest club in the world. He did what was expected but no more.
Although even that is generous as Madrid’s obsession and prime motivation in hiring him was to win the CL. He failed. Albeit against a legendary Barca side.
He did fantastic work at inter and overachieved. However...
Sneijder - 25
Maicon - 28
Milito - 30
He got the best out of top pros in their prime. Not young players who needed developing ie the kinds of players we would sign/ he would manage.
Similar at RM and Chelsea. These are not players on the whole that he helped to develop significantly. Ramos? Fabregas? Come on.
I’ll give you Varane and Azpilicueta. He’s done a great job with bringing on two players this decade and wasted a lot of young talent in the process.
Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sanchez, Foyth ... new signings that we hope to make ...
All have a long way to go to reach their world class potential.
Fiat enough. If youre explicitly willing to trade good football for the hope of winning trophies then this point makes sense.
I don’t believe he’s a bad guy necessarily- let’s not turn him into a villain. But trouble has followed him at his last three clubs over a decade. He sure creates a stink when things don’t go his way...
People are arguing we should trade our football values to win an FA cup with Mourinho.
For me values are important. It’s not all about winning. It’s also about bringing through young players, including academy and English players, playing exciting attacking football and having respect for the game. All of these would be compromised with Mourinho and in return we are unlikely to win a top tier competition. No thanks.
PICH has
Poch has fallen short for the past year in terms of playing style and hasn’t done enough for youth (although not too bad!). But as I keep saying, it’s not a choice between Poch and Mourinho. They aren’t the only two managers in the world. It’s a choice between Poch and someone better.