Player Watch: Pierre-Emile Højbjerg

[fishhhandaricecake]

I agree with everything you said aside from the 'needs upgrading' part.
I think you over-estimate this sqaud and under-estimate the importance of availability.
Having a 6.5/10 player do the dirty work all the time allows the better players to play.
I think PEH knows this too and I'm pretty sure Conte rates him. He is similar to Conte himself as a player.

Yea nice take on it and completely get where you’re coming from, he’s certainly not a priority to upgrade but I do still think if we want to win big things he ‘could’ be upgraded but yea if we had world class wing backs CB’s a reliable GK and more attacking creativity depth beyond Kulu then playing 2 out of 3 of PEH Bentancur and Bissouma most weeks would probably be ok.

 

[Cornpattbuck]

I’m hardly part of a hardcore bunch. I’ve hardly posted on the forum in the last year.

I’ve not trashed him as a player. I’m saying he’s getting on the wrong side of the ball which is exposing our defence.

Forums are there for debate. If you don’t like to listen to opposing views then don’t spend your life on forums.

Fair enough, I've just found the amount of negativity in our fan base frustrating recently. But onwards and upwards and all that. ??

 

[PhC]

Yep he is not Rodri and thats why he plays for us and not a better team.
We are a good match.
I think he will become a long-serving player for this club.

Interesting. I’m sure he’d walk right into the first XI in every PL team bar City. He brings a versatile skill set and unique mentality that every manager would appreciate. Add to that his fitness and sturdiness and you have the stabilizing force in midfield that every team needs.

I know some ppl on here do not rate statistics. But when a player tops the most important stat charts for his position week in week out for months and years, the burden of proof rests on his critics. No disrespect, but I’ve yet to see anyone who claims that he’s average or upgradable supporting it with valid arguments. Anecdotal evidence and cherry picking is not good enough when stats and several top managers prove it wrong again and again. His critics (yes, most of you have now moved from “he’s a clogger” to “he’s ok” because he’s been better than ever this season, but we all know you’re one bad game from slagging him off again) keep trivializing his qualities and over emphasizing every single bad action from him - confirmation bias in its purest form. Until you provide solid arguments based on more than a few examples or useless inference, i.e. blaming him for a goal or loss when others are usually more culpable, this debate will suffer.

 

[tubbygold]

In our last 6 premier league games we’ve conceded.

3 goals to Leeds

2 to Forest

2 to Liverpool

2 to Bournemouth

2 to Newcastle

2 to Man Utd

I understand we can blame the defence but games are won in midfield and this record indicates that opposing teams are able to get at our defence too easily.

To me it more paints a picture of an incoherent team tactically. Shape means so much defensively, and Conte hasn't been able to work on that for I don't know how long. Then our weak-minded Defenders get insecure and start making mistakes, everyone trailing all over the place.

I also just meant that I believe that's how it's supposed to work, at least in theory.

 

[ultimateloner]

Interesting. I’m sure he’d walk right into the first XI in every PL team bar City. He brings a versatile skill set and unique mentality that every manager would appreciate. Add to that his fitness and sturdiness and you have the stabilizing force in midfield that every team needs.

I know some ppl on here do not rate statistics. But when a player tops the most important stat charts for his position week in week out for months and years, the burden of proof rests on his critics. No disrespect, but I’ve yet to see anyone who claims that he’s average or upgradable supporting it with valid arguments. Anecdotal evidence and cherry picking is not good enough when stats and several top managers prove it wrong again and again. His critics (yes, most of you have now moved from “he’s a clogger” to “he’s ok” because he’s been better than ever this season, but we all know you’re one bad game from slagging him off again) keep trivializing his qualities and over emphasizing every single bad action from him - confirmation bias in its purest form. Until you provide solid arguments based on more than a few examples or useless inference, i.e. blaming him for a goal or loss when others are usually more culpable, this debate will suffer.

I do rate statistics, just dont have any =).
Yep everything i've said about PEH is based on what i've seen of him and not on anything quantifiable, so it does suffer from confirmation bias and maybe even my potentially bad eyes.
While I dont rate him as highly as you do I do appreciate what he brings to the team. Consistency, a good attitude and energy are all important qualities for a CM.

Despite those qualities my view is he wont make it into the starting 11 of better teams. Not Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal. Maybe Newc and Man Utd? There are better CMs at inferior teams. Neves from Wolves, Tilemans at Leicester etc

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Love the guy as a person and as a personality and squad member and leader and he is a solid 6-7/10 player every week but do I get the same sense of wow what a player he is compared to when I see Bentancur play or when we used to see the likes of Modric, Dembele, Wanyama, Carrick etc? Nope for me he is another that ultimately needs upgrading on in terms of a starting first XI player but really I think eventually the best 2 will be Bissouma and Bentancur but I can see why PEH & Bentancur have been picked as 1st choice most of this season because of their partnership last season and for the most part being a reliable duo.

To add to this PEH is far from a priority to upgrade right now and we can certainly get by with a combination of him, Biss and Bentancur rotating for the 2 spots if/when we upgrade RWB, CB and add another creative attacking option back-up to Kulu. More that in an ideal world we'd have a player in that position who is a little more mobile, press resistant and technical as against Man.U and other teams who have really pressed us PEH gives the ball away a lot and for me that really shows a players true level. That being said his all-round game and work for the team is very very good and a lot of his work goes unnoticed and there is a reason why Jose and now Conte are picking him week in week out.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Interesting. I’m sure he’d walk right into the first XI in every PL team bar City. He brings a versatile skill set and unique mentality that every manager would appreciate. Add to that his fitness and sturdiness and you have the stabilizing force in midfield that every team needs.

I know some ppl on here do not rate statistics. But when a player tops the most important stat charts for his position week in week out for months and years, the burden of proof rests on his critics. No disrespect, but I’ve yet to see anyone who claims that he’s average or upgradable supporting it with valid arguments. Anecdotal evidence and cherry picking is not good enough when stats and several top managers prove it wrong again and again. His critics (yes, most of you have now moved from “he’s a clogger” to “he’s ok” because he’s been better than ever this season, but we all know you’re one bad game from slagging him off again) keep trivializing his qualities and over emphasizing every single bad action from him - confirmation bias in its purest form. Until you provide solid arguments based on more than a few examples or useless inference, i.e. blaming him for a goal or loss when others are usually more culpable, this debate will suffer.

Where are you getting the stats for unique mentality, sturdiness and stabilising force?

Not really Hojbjerg specific bit I don’t believe not referencing stats makes it a less valid argument. There is never going to be proof or facts apart from results. if clubs bought players on stats, the top clubs would be loaded with a lot of average because looking at a lot of the players leading some of these stats that’s what I’m seeing. There is so many stats out there you can cherry pick any and make players seem more important.

Everyone’s susceptible to confirmation bias I think and by saying he tops the most important stats for a player in his position, who’s determined they are the most important for this team? If you rate a player you’re going to search for stats that make him seem better than he is if that’s your thing. If for example you argue passing, then there’s so much context in every pass someone makes. Just completing a pass means nothing. Same as anything really. Is one tackle worth more than forcing a player back into a negative pass that will eventually turn into lost possession if that happens twice. Footballs a very fluid game that has loads of contributing factors.

I’m sure I remember Dier having some really good stats as a cm next to Dembele and in a team that could dominate. It’s not the whole picture.

 

[Flobadob]

Where are you getting the stats for unique mentality, sturdiness and stabilising force?

Not really Hojbjerg specific bit I don’t believe not referencing stats makes it a less valid argument. There is never going to be proof or facts apart from results. if clubs bought players on stats, the top clubs would be loaded with a lot of average because looking at a lot of the players leading some of these stats that’s what I’m seeing. There is so many stats out there you can cherry pick any and make players seem more important.

Everyone’s susceptible to confirmation bias I think and by saying he tops the most important stats for a player in his position, who’s determined they are the most important for this team? If you rate a player you’re going to search for stats that make him seem better than he is if that’s your thing. If for example you argue passing, then there’s so much context in every pass someone makes. Just completing a pass means nothing. Same as anything really. Is one tackle worth more than forcing a player back into a negative pass that will eventually turn into lost possession if that happens twice. Footballs a very fluid game that has loads of contributing factors.

I’m sure I remember Dier having some really good stats as a cm next to Dembele and in a team that could dominate. It’s not the whole picture.

I remember my Arsenal mates sending me a load of stats that suggested Skodran Mustafi was amongst the best too. Kind of says it all really.

 

[djhotspur]

Interesting. I’m sure he’d walk right into the first XI in every PL team bar City. He brings a versatile skill set and unique mentality that every manager would appreciate. Add to that his fitness and sturdiness and you have the stabilizing force in midfield that every team needs.

I know some ppl on here do not rate statistics. But when a player tops the most important stat charts for his position week in week out for months and years, the burden of proof rests on his critics. No disrespect, but I’ve yet to see anyone who claims that he’s average or upgradable supporting it with valid arguments. Anecdotal evidence and cherry picking is not good enough when stats and several top managers prove it wrong again and again. His critics (yes, most of you have now moved from “he’s a clogger” to “he’s ok” because he’s been better than ever this season, but we all know you’re one bad game from slagging him off again) keep trivializing his qualities and over emphasizing every single bad action from him - confirmation bias in its purest form. Until you provide solid arguments based on more than a few examples or useless inference, i.e. blaming him for a goal or loss when others are usually more culpable, this debate will suffer.

Im not arguing with you about Hojberg because I do rate him, but I don't think he walks into any other top 6 midfield. I know some of them are regressing and have struggled this season but on paper who does he start over? Because he isn't as good as Thiago, Fabiano or Henderson, he doesn't start over Partey or Odegaard, maybe their is a case for Xhaka but he as been fantastic this season, Chelsea who does he start over, Kante? Kova? Jorginho? Uniteds midfield starting 3 eho does he start over? Eriksen? Casemiro? Bruno? Because I doubt any other fan base would agree with the above.

 

[PhC]

Where are you getting the stats for unique mentality, sturdiness and stabilising force?

Not really Hojbjerg specific bit I don’t believe not referencing stats makes it a less valid argument. There is never going to be proof or facts apart from results. if clubs bought players on stats, the top clubs would be loaded with a lot of average because looking at a lot of the players leading some of these stats that’s what I’m seeing. There is so many stats out there you can cherry pick any and make players seem more important.

Everyone’s susceptible to confirmation bias I think and by saying he tops the most important stats for a player in his position, who’s determined they are the most important for this team? If you rate a player you’re going to search for stats that make him seem better than he is if that’s your thing. If for example you argue passing, then there’s so much context in every pass someone makes. Just completing a pass means nothing. Same as anything really. Is one tackle worth more than forcing a player back into a negative pass that will eventually turn into lost possession if that happens twice. Footballs a very fluid game that has loads of contributing factors.

I’m sure I remember Dier having some really good stats as a cm next to Dembele and in a team that could dominate. It’s not the whole picture.

I’m not saying we should rely on stats alone or that you should back everything with stats - what I’m saying is that there is an unusually large discrepancy between how some judge PEH and what the stats show - and how his managers perceive him. So it would be interesting if his critics would try to explain this.

 

[PhC]

Im not arguing with you about Hojberg because I do rate him, but I don't think he walks into any other top 6 midfield. I know some of them are regressing and have struggled this season but on paper who does he start over? Because he isn't as good as Thiago, Fabiano or Henderson, he doesn't start over Partey or Odegaard, maybe their is a case for Xhaka but he as been fantastic this season, Chelsea who does he start over, Kante? Kova? Jorginho? Uniteds midfield starting 3 eho does he start over? Eriksen? Casemiro? Bruno? Because I doubt any other fan base would agree with the above.

I know, that’s why I think he’s underrated.

 

[ButchCassidy]

 

[Wig]

View attachment 119120

I can't see him on there, but would have been interested to see how Bentancur compares as seems to be able to fire quick forward passes with ease.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I can't see him on there, but would have been interested to see how Bentancur compares as seems to be able to fire quick forward passes with ease.

Per FBRef - Bentancur makes about 1.5 fewer progressive passes per 90 than Hojbjerg

Rodrigo Bentancur Stats, Goals, Records, Assists, Cups and more | FBref.com

Check out the latest domestic and international stats, match logs, goals, height, weight and more for Rodrigo Bentancur playing for Juventus FC, Uruguay men's national team and CA Boca Juniors in the Champions League, Serie A and Primera División

fbref.com

 

[PLTuck]

Love our mental Dane and don't understand some of the criticism he gets.

Every manager on the planet loves a player with his attitude and workrate in the middle of the park. Pops up with important goals and assists too.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Stats can be a crutch for people who don’t have good instincts.

There were plenty of great Managers who created great teams without the use of stats.

 

[bubble07]

When there were some rumours about him leaving in the summer I wasn't against that but now I would be. He has had a great season

 

[PhC]

Stats can be a crutch for people who don’t have good instincts.

There were plenty of great Managers who created great teams without the use of stats.

Hmm, yes - who could that be for example… Oh, Guardiola must be one of them, right? And Mourinho too, surely. Who else… oh yes, Conte of course!

What do they have in common, I wonder, aside from being great managers… ?

 

[cider spurs]

Works his arse off on the pitch. Battles through the pain at times. Not too shabby at football side of things.

He'll do for me.

 

[dudu]

The whole, he wouldn't get into team x or y is such a poor argument. People said the same about Henderson, Milner, Arsenal players they now are gushing over.....