Player Watch Player Watch: Micky van de Ven

[Albertbarich]

Peope were generally very happy last summer until results weren’t great and they were understandably not happy and then the re writing of history starts happening. I thought Romero was a good signing and obviously these things are an ongoing thing. Opinions shift over time. The main problem we’ve had is changing manager every 5 mins and we find ourselves in another “clean slate” scenario where the new manager understandably wants to assess existing players himself to see if they’re what he wants.

If we sign no CB this window I think that will be very poor but I can’t see us not signing one, whether they’ll add value or not is another question. Fingers crossed they’re great and Romero steps up and we have a strong CB partnership next season.

Lots including myself were not happy last summer as it was a crucial position back then we didn't properly address. So you're the one rewriting history.

It's the same every window. A percentage of people demand patience and start throwing accusations of melting and calling people virgins etc because god forbid spurs fans are passionate about Spurs on a Spurs forum. Then we sign someone like Lenglet or when we got Nuno and you're shouted down for negativity or told to give them a chance despite it being blindingly obvious that they aren't good enough.

Even James Maw on the View from the Lane was saying that the window wasn't great because it didn't really improve the first 11. And he was right, Conte never looked happy at all and we saw how it ended.

We have about 10 or so players to sell and desperately need defensive reinforcements and yet it's going at a snails pace at a time where we have a new manager who is trying to implement a totally different formation and style of play whilst playing nowhere near enough pre season games and having a ridiculous travel schedule.

It's one thing being reasonable and patient but this is a pattern and that is harming our football team.

 

[Stoof]

Mate, I’m starting to wonder if the cocktail of apologist brown stuff he’s serving up has been paid for by Donna. I can’t believe there’s a single Spurs supporter that is happy to go into the season with what we currently have in central defence. This failure to upgrade our CBs, isn’t just a Summer ‘23 Transfer Window problem. It’s been an ongoing act of cheapskate negligence over 3 seasons and 3 managers. What genuine supporter of this football club defends that ineptitude?! And then sneers at those supporters who care enough about the team to be frustrated and typically disillusioned that we’re still waiting for this most pressing deficiency to be addressed? It’s easy for certain posters to blithely claim, “wait and see”, but those of us who give a shit about our football team’s success have every right to be concerned. Lived experience of transfer windows under Levy and this Board makes it pretty difficult not to be.

It's very easy to pigeon-hole people.

I don't think Levy should have anything to do with the football operation. People aren't defending actions. They're just not jumping to conclusions based on snippets from press or ITK. I disagree that those two things are one and the same

Every fan gives a shit about our football team's success; to claim otherwise is churlish. The concern is entirely valid - equally as resolving it can be in the time that is available to us.

Merging CB requirements from Mourinho to Conte to Ange is a slight mis-analysis in my book. Whilst that position has been unfilled, I'd say that particular CB is a different player for all of those managers. Maybe arguable M and C were after the same thing (albeit with different formations) but since 1 July we're on Ange time now. So it's what he wants - and we're four weeks into that. That's the perspective I'm coming at this with. I also am confident, based on nothing but my averagely sized balls, that we will get one of the two + Tosin + the Blackburn kiddo.

 

[E17yid]

You keep saying it's about whether they add value or not but surely you understand the importance of pre season and how much that can effect how much that player/team understands what they are required to do? The purpose of pre season is to get match fit and build understanding of what is required when the season starts.

Yeah for sure, though the fitness part less important than the getting to know teammates, manager etc etc. you expect elite level footballers to be in good shape at previous clubs pre seasons.

However, and because of the very reason you state (I just extend it further than pre season) I always try and give any new manager or player at least 1 season before making a judgement on them. So if we sign a VdV or a Tapsoba (even if we had signed them the same time as Maddison) I wouldn’t expect them to come in and immediately hit the ground running and improve us immediately (though that would be the hope obviously)

This is why I’m more chill about the timing. Yes, for sure ideally we would have sorted one out by now but as on g as long as we get a good one in I’m all good to be honest.

 

[Whoami?]

I just find it crazy that a team that conceded over 60 goals in a season did not think to make a CB a priority knowing that we was going to have a new manager coming in trying to implement a new philosophy.

It's like they want to make it as difficult as possible for Ange. A proper club would have planned for this, i really don't understand this whole situation.

We are not talking about 70-100 mil transfers. This was reported for what? 25-30 mil? Do we not have any money left? It's a ridiculous situation to put ourselves in. You'd argue our CB's situation was more important than bringing Madders in (Who was a great signing)

 

[spurfetto]

Don't think anyone joins until Sanchez and one or two others leave.

 

[mil1lion]

I think when people say wait and see its because that's all we can do. It's all well going on about our failings year on year but what can you really do? You just have to sit back and hope we actually get something done about it this time. Nobody is downplaying the importance of a quality centre back. Nobody is saying it wouldn't be best to have one already. Nobody is saying we've delivered in that department previously. Just that it's pointless getting so mad about something you can't control. Unless you think Levy comes in this forum it seems pretty pointless keep banging on about it in here. It's got to a point now that "we need a CB" is just as repetitive as "same old Levy".

 

[Happyhammy]

What I’m absolutely baffled by is the VDV deal was ready to go, what happened?
Did we change our mind?
Shit our pants?
Not got the money?

It’s very weird.

I Believe we had ITK say that we tried to move the goalposts regarding the structure after agreeing everything. In my opinion this was for us to kick the can down the road until we knew if our first choice was doable (Tapsoba), whilst possibly trying to get both done.
Only problem with that is they have sold Diaby since then and previously sold Bakker and are €12.5m better off due to the combined fees they have recieved after purchases. Not sure of the club's financial status but this probably means they don't have to sell him so can stick to their valuation/terms ?
This is the risk you take by delaying and could potentially lead to us signing neither VDV or Tapsoba.
Also at what point do both of the clubs decide enough is enough as they would potentially need to get replacements and when do the players start to feel like they are being strung along?

 

[Albertbarich]

I think when people say wait and see its because that's all we can do. It's all well going on about our failings year on year but what can you really do? You just have to sit back and hope we actually get something done about it this time. Nobody is downplaying the importance of a quality centre back. Nobody is saying it wouldn't be best to have one already. Nobody is saying we've delivered in that department previously. Just that it's pointless getting so mad about something you can't control. Unless you think Levy comes in this forum it seems pretty pointless keep banging on about it in here. It's got to a point now that "we need a CB" is just as repetitive as "same old Levy".

This is a tottenham discussion forum. People are going to talk about stuff they aren't happy about, it's human nature and yeah it is repetitive but guess what? The repetition comes from the club who make the same mistakes over and over again. It absolutely is groundhog day which is why so many rant and rave and get frustrated with those defending it.

What else is there to talk about that isn't also being discussed ? I see loads of discussion about friendlies and Ange with his brilliant style of play but the lack of defensive reinforcements is evey but as relevent as those topics right now.

 

[Wearegoingtowintheleague]

We are now getting to a point where this potentially could, and probably will cost us points. When you consider that this is likely to be the most competitive season the Premier league has ever seen it's imperative they come in sooner rather than later, or the cost at the end of the season could be no Europe for the second year in a row.

Crazy, we never seem to learn.

The most glaring problem in the team and has been for a couple of seasons and still we don't address it.

If the powers to be don't see that they are either not fit for the role or if they do its gross incompetence that it hasn't been addressed.

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

I Believe we had ITK say that we tried to move the goalposts regarding the structure after agreeing everything. In my opinion this was for us to kick the can down the road until we knew if our first choice was doable (Tapsoba), whilst possibly trying to get both done.
Only problem with that is they have sold Diaby since then and previously sold Bakker and are €12.5m better off due to the combined fees they have recieved after purchases. Not sure of the club's financial status but this probably means they don't have to sell him so can stick to their valuation/terms ?
This is the risk you take by delaying and could potentially lead to us signing neither VDV or Tapsoba.
Also at what point do both of the clubs decide enough is enough as they would potentially need to get replacements and when do the players start to feel like they are being strung along?

There’s also been reports that Wolfsburg are being difficult too

 

[Trix]

There’s also been reports that Wolfsburg are being difficult too

By not wanting to lower their fee?

 

[E17yid]

Lots including myself were not happy last summer as it was a crucial position back then we didn't properly address. So you're the one rewriting history.

It's the same every window. A percentage of people demand patience and start throwing accusations of melting and calling people virgins etc because god forbid spurs fans are passionate about Spurs on a Spurs forum. Then we sign someone like Lenglet or when we got Nuno and you're shouted down for negativity or told to give them a chance despite it being blindingly obvious that they aren't good enough.

Even James Maw on the View from the Lane was saying that the window wasn't great because it didn't really improve the first 11. And he was right, Conte never looked happy at all and we saw how it ended.

We have about 10 or so players to sell and desperately need defensive reinforcements and yet it's going at a snails pace at a time where we have a new manager who is trying to implement a totally different formation and style of play whilst playing nowhere near enough pre season games and having a ridiculous travel schedule.

It's one thing being reasonable and patient but this is a pattern and that is harming our football team.

I disagree but short of going through all the old threads (which I can’t be arsed to do) we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that. Obviously there were people who weren’t as enthusiastic as others but generally it seemed that people were happy and were optimistic about the upcoming season.

Look, people can say or feel what they want obviously, no skin off my nose all I was challenging was Trix’s initial post that said because we haven’t signed a CB now (not that we won’t sign a CB) it is likely that we won’t see any European football next year which I think is a stretch. That’s it.

It’s just a case of I’ll be willing to back more players than others which is totally fine if to do or don’t but considering all of us have been wrong on lots of spurs related stuff over the years we’ll just have to see how it all pans out. You can criticise that point of view but for all the moaning of this happening time and time again we actually have had some decent success over the last decade from a qualifying for CL point of view let alone qualifying for Europe. Last year aside

Anyway, I’ve commented enough so I’ll leave you lot to it.

 

[Albertbarich]

I disagree but short of going through all the old threads (which I can’t be arsed to do) we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that. Obviously there were people who weren’t as enthusiastic as others but generally it seemed that people were happy and were optimistic about the upcoming season.

Look, people can say or feel what they want obviously, no skin off my nose all I was challenging was Trix’s initial post that said because we haven’t signed a CB now (not that we won’t sign a CB) it is likely that we won’t see any European football next year which I think is a stretch. That’s it.

It’s just a case of I’ll be willing to back more players than others which is totally fine if to do or don’t but considering all of us have been wrong on lots of spurs related stuff over the years we’ll just have to see how it all pans out. You can criticise that point of view but for all the moaning of this happening time and time again we actually have had some decent success over the last decade from a qualifying for CL point of view let alone qualifying for Europe. Last year aside

Anyway, I’ve commented enough so I’ll leave you lot to it.

You have .ore than held your own mate. Were all on the same side I just want BOTH sides to appreciate that the passion and POV on the other is coming from a good place.

I know the moaning is annoying but that's not all the fans fault.

 

[mark87]

The only thing I’m shocked about is that I'm still shocked

So it's not the only thing you're shocked about?

 

[Misfit]

By not wanting to lower their fee?

The difficult bastards.

 

[Happyhammy]

There’s also been reports that Wolfsburg are being difficult too

True but we are trying to buy one of the players, I believe if we pushed the button when we had everything supposedly agreed, and not as it has been suggested tried to change the structure of the deal he would be wearing our shirt.
The fact that they then sold Diaby for €55m i think it was may have put them back in the driving seat.
There's always things being changed by both parties and both can be difficult, but the longer you leave it the risk of of it falling through is always there.

 

[mil1lion]

This is a tottenham discussion forum. People are going to talk about stuff they aren't happy about, it's human nature and yeah it is repetitive but guess what? The repetition comes from the club who make the same mistakes over and over again. It absolutely is groundhog day which is why so many rant and rave and get frustrated with those defending it.

What else is there to talk about that isn't also being discussed ? I see loads of discussion about friendlies and Ange with his brilliant style of play but the lack of defensive reinforcements is evey but as relevent as those topics right now.

So you translate what I said into saying people can't give their opinions? OK then. I simply said that it's pointless to get too worked up about it. For your own health more than anything. I haven't said people can't complain or give their views etc. I certainly do myself. Theres plenty to discuss especially given we just played 2 friendlies and made over 60 chances. Sorry for explaining why it's best not to get too mad over the negatives though.

 

[Russ1201]

Right I know I’m probably being naive but I think things maybe slowed down because of the Kane/Hojbjerg situation so we know where our finances are.
I’m not for one second saying it’s the right move but that is the only thing that makes sense.
We need a left sided CB, Tosin predominantly plays on the right.

Im still convinced it’ll be VDV and Tosin.
As we sell Sanchez, Rodon and possibly Tanganga.
It’s just to bloody late.

Probably is the reason why the delay mate. Problem is Levy will likely drag the Kane and Hjorberg deal to get the most value. In doing so this will leave it to late to negotiate top quality replacements/reinforcements.
Crazy thing is i actually think Levy would quite like this scenario to save money. He doesn't care about the fan backlash unfortunately.

 

[Albertbarich]

So you translate what I said into saying people can't give their opinions? OK then. I simply said that it's pointless to get too worked up about it. For your own health more than anything. I haven't said people can't complain or give their views etc. I certainly do myself. Theres plenty to discuss especially given we just played 2 friendlies and made over 60 chances. Sorry for explaining why it's best not to get too mad over the negatives though.

You said keep banging on about it alongside the don't get mad. Hence my translation.

And people have been discussing that stuff in length alongside the CB Issue and it plays a part in the passion and frustration as going forward we have so much potential so if we just plugged the obvious gaps...

 

[wishkah]

You just don't get it........ Forget ITK! Forget the media! Forget it all, It's all irrelevant!

Purely look at where we are as a squad and our needs and then look at our recent history in transfer windows the past 3-4 years. Just look at the absolute facts and what we 100% know about our transfer history and tell me you think things will be definitely be different this time around and why.


For me even if we do address the CB problem we have still hamstrung the coach with him not being able to work with these players during preseason. It really is important to get the key positions sorted as early as you can if you want to hit the ground running.

I find it almost comical, and would love to know the tenets that Levy has in his brain that rule the way of thinking.

i still remember the year we got scott parker. Lost the first few games of the season, got parker in and starting winning. then missed top 4 by 3 points or something....which we would have gotten IF levy had got parker in before the season started.

I might be factually off, but its how i remember it.