Player Watch: Marcus Edwards

[Hoddle_Ledge]

Don't forget it's sometimes hard to decipher Poch. When he says 'physical condition' is that coming back from injury or just his frame etc?

If he is still carrying a slight injury then over exerting himself playing for the 1st team at Wembley won't make it any better,

 

[yankspurs]

No, he doesn't deserve a chance because the guy who is entrusted with giving out the chances, and who sees enough of him to decide whether he deserves a chance, has decided he doesn't deserve a chance at this moment in time.


He does look like he has more natural ability than Sissoko. But does he have any of the myriad of other things that a top players needs? Pace? Strength? Intelligence?

Yes, it *could* be the launching point for him. But it might just as well not be, and that decision is far better made by the guy who sees him every day than a load of people who read ESPN articles, watch edited Youtube clips and check to see what potential rating he has on Football Manager.

Oakley-Boothe is two years younger, in a position that requires more maturity, and Pochettino has placed trust in him. Clearly, regardless of how much potential Edwards may have, the man who knows him best (and who has a huge amount to gain from his success) doesn't trust him right now. I keep coming back to the comparison because it highlights that there's probably no baffling, weird ulterior motive that Edwards isn't in the squad, the manager just doesn't think he deserves it, or quite possibly doesn't think it's the right thing for Edwards own development; there are plenty of players who are held back until the (nebulous) 'right time', often ones who go right to the top - I've seen coaches at Everton and Barca respectively say that both Rooney and Messi were, ability-wise, good enough to play for the first team from the age of 14, but they kept them back because they didn't want them to get lost as youngsters in the harsh reality of men's football - now clearly Edwards is a great older than that, but he's also a tiny kid; maybe they are holding him back until they are happy that he won't simply get bullied out of games.



Again though, the step up from youth/reserve football is huge, both in terms of quality and intensity.

I do want to clarify again, nothing I've said should be taken as anti-Edwards; I completely understand the desire to see Edwards play, and I was disappointed to read that he wouldn't be in the squad tomorrow. I'm just willing to accept that if he isn't in the squad, there's a good reason for it.

Okay, I think you need to be reminded that this is an internet forum for fans. We are, contrary to popular belief, allowed to question and disagree with Poch's decisions.

 

[Disconosebleed]

Okay, I think you need to be reminded that this is an internet forum for fans. We are, contrary to popular belief, allowed to question and disagree with Poch's decisions.

I'm not trying to stop you. I'm just explaining why it's stupid in this specific situation, when it's regarding a player none of us have seen playing at the standard required. Even Pochettino hasn't, but the best we have to go on at the moment is first team training sessions, which none of us are privy to.

 

[worcestersauce]

I don't believe for one minute that Poch isn't playing him because he doesn't like his hair so he must have another reason.
I also believe Poch would play him if he was ready so the answer is quite simple.
It sounds like Poch has put a plan in place to get him ready and if Marcus keeps to it he should be ok.
I think a lot of us worry when we get a kid like this that if we don't play him he will want to leave but there's no reason to believe that is likely in this case.
Patience and the right handling is what he needs maybe.

 

[mpickard2087]

FWIW I still wouldn't be surprised to see him make the bench, I still think comments are a bit weak from Poch.

- His condition/confidence. How was he ready to play a year ago, but isn't now? Also there is one thing that Edwards has never lacked, which is a bit of self-confidence on the pitch and the belief to try things. That's a bit bizarre. In any case, what better confidence boost than getting into a first team squad?

- I'd agree with him that Edwards isn't ready to do 90 mins yet, but as I said only this morning in here then drip feed him in off the bench for now. 20-30 mins when he can 'empty the tank' against tiring defences.

- Who are these other options we have that allow your Eriksen's etc to have a rest? If we're being honest, I'd much rather give minutes to a youth player than seeing more Sissoko or N'headless-Chicken.

I am starting to fear (though I hope these are proved wrong) that if you're not 6ft tall with physicality then it's a real difficulty to break into Poch's team (which is why TOB stands a chance). I also don't want to see him getting more and more risk-averse but the signs are there.

 

[SandroClegane]

Okay, I think you need to be reminded that this is an internet forum for fans. We are, contrary to popular belief, allowed to question and disagree with Poch's decisions.

but you're disagreeing and questioning his decisions based on absolutely nothing besides some short clips from youth games and other people hyping him up on the internet...

 

[eddiev14]

I trust Poch on this.

 

[Chris Flynn]

FWIW I still wouldn't be surprised to see him make the bench, I still think comments are a bit weak from Poch.

- His condition/confidence. How was he ready to play a year ago, but isn't now? Also there is one thing that Edwards has never lacked, which is a bit of self-confidence on the pitch and the belief to try things. That's a bit bizarre. In any case, what better confidence boost than getting into a first team squad?

- I'd agree with him that Edwards isn't ready to do 90 mins yet, but as I only said this morning then drip feed him in off the bench for now. 20-30 mins when he can 'empty the tank' against tiring defences.

- Who are these other options we have that allow your Eriksen's etc to have a rest? If we're being honest, I'd much rather give minutes to a youth player than seeing more Sissoko or N'headless-Chicken.

I am starting to fear that if you're not 6ft tall with physicality then it's a real difficulty to break into Poch's team (which is why TOB stands a chance). I also don't want to see him getting more and more risk-averse but the signs are there.

Winks

 

[longtimespur]

Winks

Winks back

 

[Chris Flynn]

Winks back

 

[longtimespur]

 

[Disconosebleed]

Winks

Not to mention Nkoudou, who is mentioned in that post. You can't complain that Edwards is being sidelined because of his age or size while moaning that Oakley-Boothe (young) and Nkoudou (small) are ahead of him.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I find it very odd that we've got a less experienced, younger player than Edwards that will be getting game time in Tashan Oakley-Boothe, and yet people are whinging that Edwards isn't in there.

that's because, contrary to popular belief, it's not actually just a case of wanting want all da yoof in the first team regardless of whether they're good enough/deserve it or not. as much as i like tob and think he will have a bright future here, his body of work so far at youth level simply doesn't merit senior inclusion when compared to edwards.

what i personally find very odd, is how every part of pochettino's management can be critiqued and debated but his use of youth players can't be questioned? why must his decisions in that area be blindly obeyed but everything else is fair game?

 

[mpickard2087]

Winks

Admittedly coming back from injury, but I don't think he was ever at the 'fully trusted' stage - just someone used to give Dembele a rest, and currently he's at a standstill.

Not to mention Nkoudou, who is mentioned in that post. You can't complain that Edwards is being sidelined because of his age or size while moaning that Oakley-Boothe (young) and Nkoudou (small) are ahead of him.

TOB will be a monster physique wise by the time he hits his 20's, he's someone I'm not surprised Poch will have a thing for and want to mould him as soon as possible.

Nkoudou isn't particularly 'small'. In any case he's on the periphery and gets about 15 mins of football a month on average.

 

[Trix]

I'm going back a while but last I heard it was his physicality that was lacking easily being brushed aside in training etc. His talent has never been in doubt, but he needs to improve on his core strength/balance, which hopefully will come in time. Throwing him in against a load of fully grown Championship players at Wembley who are hoping to take a scalp, probably is not the best course of action tbh.

 

[Disconosebleed]

that's because, contrary to popular belief, it's not actually just a case of wanting want all da yoof in the first team regardless of whether they're good enough/deserve it or not. as much as i like tob and think he will have a bright future here, his body of work so far at youth level simply doesn't merit senior inclusion when compared to edwards.

what i personally find very odd, is how every part of pochettino's management can be critiqued and debated but his use of youth players can't be questioned? why must his decisions in that area be blindly obeyed but everything else is fair game?

Well I've already explained this, but ok - because, whereas we have all seen enough of the first team to have reasonably informed opinions, that isn't the case with the youth team players. Even those that follow the youngsters closely (I believe this includes you, apologies if I'm wrong) only have an opinion formed on their performances in youth team games, which don't necessarily mean a huge amount when it comes to competitive men's football.

Barring his twenty minute cameo in the League Cup last season, Edwards' experience of first-team football at Tottenham is limited entirely to training, which none of us have access to on a regular basis. So while it's fair enough to question Poch's selection of first-team players - he might be the expert, but you've got your own experience and interpretation of their abilities - with a player like Edwards the discussion is entirely based on ifs and maybes. Essentially no one here has any idea of how he might do in a first-team environment, whereas Pochettino does, because he sees him every day in training. That's the difference - with the youth team players, very few people outside those at the training ground every day have a detailed, relevant knowledge of whether a player like Edwards deserves a chance, it's all hearsay and hype.

EDIT: Sorry only replied to the second part of your post, although it stands as a reasonable answer to the first part too - TOB is now training regularly with the first team, so presumably Poch is seeing enough in him to think he can handle it. Which raises the question - how often is Edwards training with the first team? If he's standing out at youth level then he would be training with the first team regularly and getting the chance to show he deserves to be there...maybe he isn't taking that chance.

 

[Disconosebleed]

Admittedly coming back from injury, but I don't think he was ever at the 'fully trusted' stage - just someone used to give Dembele a rest, and currently he's at a standstill.



TOB will be a monster physique wise by the time he hits his 20's, he's someone I'm not surprised Poch will have a thing for and want to mould him as soon as possible.

Nkoudou isn't particularly 'small'. In any case he's on the periphery and gets about 15 mins of football a month on average.

Is TOB as big as that? I've only seen him a few times and didn't notice him being particularly big or tall, but I'll defer to your greater knowledge. I think I might have a problem with depth perception (these sheep are small, those ones are far away), Onomah is apparently six foot but he's always looked pretty small to me.

 

[Streetspur77]

Was thinking the same. What better way to build confidence by putting in a good performance for the senior team.

But by the same token what if he's not ready, physically or mentally, and then puts in a terrible performance which absolutely kills his confidence, setting him back weeks/months

I personally am gonna trust poch on this one as he watches, or at least is being advised by people who watch, Edwards daily.

And who knows he may be pulling another KWP to take the pressure off edwards and he may be involved tomorrow

 

[mpickard2087]

Is TOB as big as that? I've only seen him a few times and didn't notice him being particularly big or tall, but I'll defer to your greater knowledge. I think I might have a problem with depth perception (these sheep are small, those ones are far away), Onomah is apparently six foot but he's always looked pretty small to me.

Only 6ft of thereabouts, but he's got the capacity frame-wise to really fill out and physically dominate in midfield in the future.

 

[Chris Flynn]

Admittedly coming back from injury, but I don't think he was ever at the 'fully trusted' stage - just someone used to give Dembele a rest, and currently he's at a standstill.

I disagree on this. I think Winks is trusted and would have been in the line up for some of the recent games if he hadnt been returning from an injury. The ammount of times he was brought on last season when we were losing or drawing tells you that. Is he ahead of Dembele? Of course not yet, not many would be. Will he start a lot of games this season? I would say definatly. I get your point that potch seems to prefer bigger athaletic players but you cant ignore Winks or say 'i know hes injured but...'. I think he proves if youre good enough youre big enough