Harry Kane

[nailsy]

I can't believe how much people are reading into the United game. If was almost like a preseason match given the fitness levels of the players. Jose was always going to play deep as he wouldn't risk having United's speed merchants breaking against tired unfit players. I'm not expecting much from the rest of the season. If we get a few wins then great, if not then hopefully Jose can teach the team how he wants them to play.

 

[buckley]

Sometimes I feel sick to the stomach listening to some on here One of the reasons the so called top six are where they are is because they are the better teams and the better teams they score more goals than the lesser teams and concede fewer goals than the lesser teams .
There is no striker that scores lots of goals against the top six its self explanatory.
Anybody that has lost patience with Kane and want him sold are not thinking straight to my way of thinking .
This idea that you put Harry on the bench when we need him to get fit and buzzing just does not make sense he needs to play to get up to speed . Even in the Man United game their defence had to perform very well to keep a half fit Kane quiet .
What I do know from seasons past and after injury Harry somehow manages to find his form and come good .
With a back up striker maybe of a different type maybe a speed merchant it will take some of the pressure off of him as he has been carrying the goal scoring burden of the whole team .
These people that want Kane sold need to think again and use the common sense because myself I would not put it past Harry to come good against West Ham in any case we do not have a player that can play the loan striker role that Jose likes to use .

 

[spursfan77]

It’s all part of the media trying to get Kane out of our club. This is just a part of it. It’s why I’m disappointed in Mourinho that he’s kept the narrative going.

 

[buckley]

I am fed up with our people keeping quiet and taking the rubbish spouted about us in silence for me its refreshing to hear someone speak out and have a go back of course their are those that want to disregard a manager that has won over 21 major trophies including league wins in England Spain Italy plus cup wins in all three countries plus europa cups champions league cups . With Real Madrid /Inter Milan / Porto / Chelsea and Man United . But of course the views of someone whose club management consists of getting sacked by walsall plus spells at Tamworth / Welshpool Town / Caerau (I know that's what I thought ) Hanworth Villa my goodness that's some CV .
And some people want spurs supporters to take on board the views of this failure in all aspects of football management I find unbelievable .
Also that because of their dislike of Jose they are willing to even listen to what this twat Merson has to say its beyond incredible also crass stupid and blind.

 

[Mr Pink]

Harry will be tearing it up soon. World class and hope he sees out his career with us.

 

[ShaunL84]

Some people are still in denial and it's sad to see.

The debate isn't about whether Kane is finished, he obviously isn't.

Is he as good as he was a few years ago? Absolutely not, he's lost that burst of pace which made him deadly.

 

[Johnny J]

Some people are still in denial and it's sad to see.

The debate isn't about whether Kane is finished, he obviously isn't.

Is he as good as he was a few years ago? Absolutely not, he's lost that burst of pace which made him deadly.

I'm not sure pace has ever been what made, or makes, Kane deadly.

 

[dtxspurs]

I'm not sure pace has ever been what made, or makes, Kane deadly.

He clearly had an extra gear that doesn’t seem to be there anymore.

 

[Snarfalicious]

A lot of the posts I see on here make me realize we don’t even deserve nice things.

 

[danielneeds]

He clearly had an extra gear that doesn’t seem to be there anymore.

Sprained ankles aren’t gonna take away pace, per say. It was the relentless workload on him for a few years which saw his body break a bit. He’s 26, never had leg breaks or ACLs, he should be able to get back up to speed with a good run of matches now.

 

[synththfc]

He's not the same player he was a few years ago, of course he isn't. But that's ok. He doesn't need to be in order to be a top 3 striker in the league, hell maybe even the best.

What he needs is a supporting cast capable of giving him chances. He might not be able to get himself the same chances he used to be able to, but if he gets them from his teammates, he'll put them away. We have to build around what he is, not what he was.

 

[mattdefoe]

The Kane of the time of this video hasn't been seen for a while now. I think, but hope the opposite, that the Shearer comparisons are continuing. We've had the Blackburn equivalent and now we're seeing the Newcastle version, the goals will still come but the rest of his game is diminished.

What was the Blackburn shearer like in comparison to the Newcastle version ?

 

[C0YS]

To follow up with some more statistics. Goals are goals I understand that.

He's scored against West Ham, Burnley (2), Brighton, Norwich, Olympiacos (2).

Against ManU twice & Chelsea under Jose he had 1 total shot on target across 270 minutes of action.

OK. So on the last two big games thing. Kane made one shots on Target against Man Utd and Chelsea before the break. Only in the first Man Utd game did the opposition striker get more shots on target than him, and he had one shot. The chelsea game we were down to ten as well. Shots on target are simply not that common. He has averaged 1 shots on target in 3 of his last 'big six' games. That's not as bad as it sounds.

The n1 striker of shots on target, playing as a CF after 12 games is

Gabriel Jesus with 2.2 shots on target per game
Maupey Abraham, Aguero 1.4
Martial, Vardy, Jimenez, Ings, Calvert lewin 1,3
Firmino, Pukki, 1.2
Kane, Lacazette and others 1.1
Aubameyang 0.7

Let's look an example, let's look at Lacazette, Vardy, Aguero and Firmino. I have written this section before doing research on it. So I may come out looking like an idiot.

Aguero, vs Man utd 60mins. Shots on target 0 (Jesus got 1 from the bench)
Aguero vs Tottenham, 2 shots on target (pretty good, Jesus also got one from the bench)
Aguero vs Man utd SoT 2 (Jesus got zero)

So aguero 4 in 3. Pretty good, that's what the top of the league does for you. We could also up to 6 including Jesus. These are the top two players with shots on target in the league. Playing for man city helps! Btw, goals of those two players in those games? Zero, not a single goal. Jesus also played against arsenal, getting one shot on target, no goals

Vardy, again last three top 6 meetings, zero goals.

Liverpool sot = 0
Chelsea sot = 1
Man city sot = 0

Vardy has 1 shot on target in 3 games, so like Kane.

We are going to combine Lacazette and Aubameyang depending on who was playing CF that day. I'm not including Nktieh who started Man city game, or whatever his name is because that is unfair (for what it's work Auba, Nktieh and Lacazette combined got 0 shot on target that day)

Man utd = 1 (combined 1, Auba played all the game no goals from either)
Chelsea = 0
Chelsa first time = 0 (Auba scored, with 1 shot on target, but played wing Lacazette played the whole match)

So we have 1 goal in 3. even including the combined full game contributions of Auba and Lacazette over 4 games they had 2 shots on target.

Next

Firmino, ok not a goalscorer, but better at getting shots on target then Kane, so lets see.

Man city - 1 shot on target
Tottenham 3 shots on target 1 goal
Man utd 0 shots on target

ok so 4 in 3, not bad at all, 1 goal.

So what we have seen here, is strikers get those kind of figures all the time it's pretty normal. Considering that the average shots on target per goal ratio is somewhere between 2 - 3 these stats are hardly surprising. If you are getting two shots of a game, you should be scoring close to once a game. So the stats offered are not strange. Keep in mind these are Lacazette, Firmino, Vardy, Aguero, Jesus, Auba.

They have scored a combined 1 goal in 9 games against the last top six. Or 2 in 12 if we count Auba as his own player from the wing. Great stats yes?

 

[C0YS]

But (taking @dudu stat)

"An article I saw (written in Jan) said Harry Kane had 6 goals against the others in the big 6 since the start of 2017/2018"

We're going in circles to a degree ... This isn't a new thing.

I'll move on, concede the fact we all want Kane scoring goals especially in the big games and I'll genuflect in hope that it clicks as soon as the rust as worn off.

My issue is the indication that this is a bad record. It's also not true, maybe in open play? Let's look into this. I assume this is only PL games.

This season his record is
6 games 2 goals (1 pen)

2018-2019
8 games 3 goals (2 pens)

2017-2018
9 games 4 goals (1 pen)

record 23 games 9 goals. That's a very good record. (6 goals without pens. In 23)

For reference.
2016-17
9 games 3 goals (2 pens)

2015-2016
10 games 6 goals (1 pen)

2014-2015
7 games 5 goals (0 pens)

26 games 14 goals (insanely good record. In his first season he might have had the advantage of big teams not knowing how to deal with him) (11 goals removing pens)

Both cases the record is very good.

Now I will be super unfair and compare Kane's stats with whoever was the leading scorer apart from Kane that season.

2019-2020
Vardy
9 games 2 goals (0 pens)

2018-2019
Aubameyang 10 games 3 goals (2 pens)
Mane 10 games 3 goals (0 pens)
Salah 10 games 2 goals (1 pen)

2017-2018
Salah 10 games 7 goals (0 pens). This is a bit like Kane's first season. But very impressive.

So with the most generous interpretation the best combined record out of top scorers is 29 games 12 goals. which is a very similar record to Kane including pens and considerably better without pens included. But this is not a fair comparison because Salah just had one of those seasons. Just doing the last two seasons Kane's 14 games 5 goals, is much better than 19 games 5 goals. Without pens 2 in 14 would be only fractionally lower than Vardy+Auba/Salah combined, particularly with Kane having less of a chance to score a goal in those games which would completely change those stats.

Continuing
2016-2017
Lukaku 11 games 4 (1 pen)

2015-2016
Vardy 11 games 7 goals (0 pens)

Ok I will leave it here, it is worth noting, pre 2017-2018 the top 6 wasn't really a thing so the rise in goals is not that surprising. That Vardy season, actually put Kane's record a bit behind

The last thing I want to do was a direct comparison with Aguero, which generally is the only other play to consistently be up there with Kane.

2014-2015
10 games 10 goals (2 pens) (5 of which against us!).
Without pens: Kane: 0.72 Aguero 0.8 goals a game

2015-2016
9 games 6 goals (1 pen)
Kane 0.5 Aguero 0.56

2016-2017
8 games 3 goals (0 pens)
Kane 0.11 Aguero 0.39

2017-2018
7 games 2 goals (1 pen)
Kane 0.33 Aguero 0.15

2018-2019
9 games 8 goals (1 pen) 6 of these goals came in two games insane numbers
Kane 0.13 Aguero 0.77

2019-2020
6 games 1 goal (0 pens)
Both on 0.17

Ok that was a waste of time. All I learnt was Aguero is really something. Yeh, but even if he is something that stats show that there is nothing strange about Kane's record against big teams, and Aguero is doing it at Man city, and the top goalscorers all post comparable records. Last season two of the top scorers posted a 0.1 goal rate excluding penalties, which is lower than Kane has ever got. Excluding Penalties, many of which Kane wins, is also unfair. IN part because Kane's record is 87% compared to the average of 70%, while his record against the top 6 in pens is slightly higher at 88%. Aguero's rate is 83%, which is very good and maintains it in big games. Vardy is at 79%, quite good, but is only 60% against the top 6. While, Aubameyang has a 66% strike rate in the PL (69% career wide so it is fairly representative), that goes down to 50% against the top clubs. So you can't dismiss penalties.

Anyway, I am never doing this again. I think I've really stretched the limits of procrastination, and my students will be very confused and upset when they receive this instead of their marks.

 

[dudu]

My issue is the indication that this is a bad record. It's also not true, maybe in open play? Let's look into this. I assume this is only PL games.

This season his record is
6 games 2 goals (1 pen)

2018-2019
8 games 3 goals (2 pens)

2017-2018
9 games 4 goals (1 pen)

record 23 games 9 goals. That's a very good record. (6 goals without pens. In 23)

For reference.
2016-17
9 games 3 goals (2 pens)

2015-2016
10 games 6 goals (1 pen)

2014-2015
7 games 5 goals (0 pens)

26 games 14 goals (insanely good record. In his first season he might have had the advantage of big teams not knowing how to deal with him) (11 goals removing pens)

Both cases the record is very good.

Now I will be super unfair and compare Kane's stats with whoever was the leading scorer apart from Kane that season.

2019-2020
Vardy
9 games 2 goals (0 pens)

2018-2019
Aubameyang 10 games 3 goals (2 pens)
Mane 10 games 3 goals (0 pens)
Salah 10 games 2 goals (1 pen)

2017-2018
Salah 10 games 7 goals (0 pens). This is a bit like Kane's first season. But very impressive.

So with the most generous interpretation the best combined record out of top scorers is 29 games 12 goals. which is a very similar record to Kane including pens and considerably better without pens included. But this is not a fair comparison because Salah just had one of those seasons. Just doing the last two seasons Kane's 14 games 5 goals, is much better than 19 games 5 goals. Without pens 2 in 14 would be only fractionally lower than Vardy+Auba/Salah combined, particularly with Kane having less of a chance to score a goal in those games which would completely change those stats.

Continuing
2016-2017
Lukaku 11 games 4 (1 pen)

2015-2016
Vardy 11 games 7 goals (0 pens)

Ok I will leave it here, it is worth noting, pre 2017-2018 the top 6 wasn't really a thing so the rise in goals is not that surprising. That Vardy season, actually put Kane's record a bit behind

The last thing I want to do was a direct comparison with Aguero, which generally is the only other play to consistently be up there with Kane.

2014-2015
10 games 10 goals (2 pens) (5 of which against us!).
Without pens: Kane: 0.72 Aguero 0.8 goals a game

2015-2016
9 games 6 goals (1 pen)
Kane 0.5 Aguero 0.56

2016-2017
8 games 3 goals (0 pens)
Kane 0.11 Aguero 0.39

2017-2018
7 games 2 goals (1 pen)
Kane 0.33 Aguero 0.15

2018-2019
9 games 8 goals (1 pen) 6 of these goals came in two games insane numbers
Kane 0.13 Aguero 0.77

2019-2020
6 games 1 goal (0 pens)
Both on 0.17

Ok that was a waste of time. All I learnt was Aguero is really something. Yeh, but even if he is something that stats show that there is nothing strange about Kane's record against big teams, and Aguero is doing it at Man city, and the top goalscorers all post comparable records. Last season two of the top scorers posted a 0.1 goal rate excluding penalties, which is lower than Kane has ever got. Excluding Penalties, many of which Kane wins, is also unfair. IN part because Kane's record is 87% compared to the average of 70%, while his record against the top 6 in pens is slightly higher at 88%. Aguero's rate is 83%, which is very good and maintains it in big games. Vardy is at 79%, quite good, but is only 60% against the top 6. While, Aubameyang has a 66% strike rate in the PL (69% career wide so it is fairly representative), that goes down to 50% against the top clubs. So you can't dismiss penalties.

Anyway, I am never doing this again. I think I've really stretched the limits of procrastination, and my students will be very confused and upset when they receive this instead of their marks.

Brilliant mate. Thank you for posting.

Normally I'd have to properly looked into the stat I posted but I honestly knew there was a rabbit hole there to go down and I didn't want in.

 

[Gilzeanking]

A lot of the posts I see on here make me realize we don’t even deserve nice things.

Thats a surprise Snarf . Had you down as one of the best here . You're saying that because some on here have concerns at Kane's poor form as we desperately need a good, in-form striker to have a chance of European qualification , therefore we don't deserve nice things !! Over dramatic...much ?

The harshest thing I've seen in his thread is that if a massive offer comes in we should consider it .Strawmen abound . Everyone would be thrilled if Kane has a swift return to form . If some are worried about him atm....not allowed to say it ?....on a Spurs football forum....you sure ?

Special mention to COYS ^^^ impressive effort.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

@C0YS That's a lot of hard work and appreciate (hopefully others do as well) the time you put into it.

Back on the topic of Kane from my own perspective - I don't dislike Harry Kane, in fact I'd like nothing more than Kane to be our Le Tiss. It does feel like a pipe dream though.

I have no issue with him being rusty, or not scoring every game. He deserves support in the shape of someone to take the load - he's been failed for many a season in my eyes.

At the same time, I'm of the opinion that every player has his price. We're simply not in the same bracket as some and if certain clubs come calling I don't doubt Harry wouldn't have to consider his future if one or two of those clubs did touch base and sound him out.

Levy has already come out twice now I think and reiterated that Kane especially isn't for sale. That's good enough for me for now. As we know, things can change.

What I would hope for, from my perspective, that from this post on, starting from today's cup final against West Ham, that Kane finds his form and we see what we all hope to see from him, goals and bums off seats perfomances.

After all, he is one of our own.

 

[cider spurs]

I don’t see Kane as the problem. I see our failure to provide a suitable rotation option as the culprit.

Fine to look at his injuries, and whilst Kane himself is usually eager to return post injury, I'm of the view that our lack of true options see him over utilised.

He's a World class striker, and he plays for Spurs. Selling him is not the answer, allowing him to get properly fit and sharing the burden has to be the way forward.

 

[teok]

What was the Blackburn shearer like in comparison to the Newcastle version ?

He was never exactly quick but you would be surprised how different he looked if you only saw the later version. Just more mobile all round.

 

[mark87]

Gooner friend trying to convince me Kane is on the decline just because his stats aren't as good as previous seasons, he can't grasp that our teams form has dipped from last year so naturally his will too as the players behind him aren't playing to the level they should be.
We'd be better off by selling him apparently. Kinell.