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Player Watch Player Watch: Guglielmo Vicario

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,616
20,586
Weak, which is now causing that area to be targeted, I've been calling it for a while.

He changes something up there, stands his ground and uses his weight, teams all of a sudden change that target.

You only need to look at what raya did when vicario went straight for him as an example
 

Verloc

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2003
522
1,711
The clown show at the back that led to the corner in the first place was very poor. His pass to VDV was absolute crap.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
16,253
49,953
He was very weak from Havertz header, there is no getting away from it. He simply needs dominate his box in those situations. Clear area he needs to improve on
 

Joely

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2011
1,789
4,809
Must admit, do have some concerns over him in defensive set piece situations. He has the height but quite willowy in build and don't get the impression he has the 'fuck off, this ball is mine' attitude and prepared to go through everyone and everything in his way to make it his. Really eases nerves at the back when you have someone like that.
Sometimes feels he is half banking on getting a foul against him rather than really coming out and dominating with real conviction first and foremost.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,383
58,044
Nobody seems willing or able to attack the ball on defensive set pieces. Time and again our players are static and completely passive when the ball comes in. Should have been identified and dealt with months ago. And why isn't one of our players stopping Ben White from getting in Vicario's face? We seethe samejust about every game.
 
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Wadec

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2014
1,828
5,663
Nobody seems willing or able to attack the ball on defensive set pieces. Time and again our players are static and completely passive when the ball comes in. Should have been identified and dealt with months ago.
Zonal marking, it allows then to put someone on the keeper and prevent him attacking the ball whilst they overload an area where the ball is being delivered.

Zonal marking doesn't work on its own anymore, teams have specialist set piece coaches androutines to counteract the structure implemented. At most you can have a few players manning a specific zone, Kane used to do this really well. But you need the rest attacking the ball.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,383
58,044
Zonal marking, it allows then to put someone on the keeper and prevent him attacking the ball whilst they overload an area where the ball is being delivered.

Zonal marking doesn't work on its own anymore, teams have specialist set piece coaches androutines to counteract the structure implemented. At most you can have a few players manning a specific zone, Kane used to do this really well. But you need the rest attacking the ball.

Nobody's controlling the zone right in front of Vicario. It's hopeless. I've always had an intense dislike of zonal marking.
 

SonicSarr

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2012
2,953
5,065
Nobody's controlling the zone right in front of Vicario. It's hopeless. I've always had an intense dislike of zonal marking.
We need someone helping Vic and Mickey VDV on the front post. Had we done today, then both of those corners wouldn't have been goals.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,052
36,562
Weak, which is now causing that area to be targeted, I've been calling it for a while.

He changes something up there, stands his ground and uses his weight, teams all of a sudden change that target.

You only need to look at what raya did when vicario went straight for him as an example

Vicario is not the problem. Both the goals came because, zonal marking at front post failed. Even if there was no White hindering him, theres no way he keeps both the goals away.
Even in previous games, it was just us losing the markers

Vicario has some troubles but he is not the no1 reason for these corner goals.
 

piedpiper

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2008
3,878
7,055
Must admit, do have some concerns over him in defensive set piece situations. He has the height but quite willowy in build and don't get the impression he has the 'fuck off, this ball is mine' attitude and prepared to go through everyone and everything in his way to make it his. Really eases nerves at the back when you have someone like that.
Sometimes feels he is half banking on getting a foul against him rather than really coming out and dominating with real conviction first and foremost.
As the season has gone on.....I've come ti the view we should buy another keeper to give him real competition. Even a keeper who would replace him.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,383
58,044
As the season has gone on.....I've come ti the view we should buy another keeper to give him real competition. Even a keeper who would replace him.

As others have said, I think it's the system, not the keeper that's the problem. He needs somebody physically strong to keep opposing players away from him. Nobody was even close to Ben White when he was getting in Vicario's face and it's been just like that for months. It's a very obvious problem we have had all season and it seems nothing has been done to address it.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,940
32,751
Nobody's controlling the zone right in front of Vicario. It's hopeless. I've always had an intense dislike of zonal marking.
People are totally missing though that a few weeks back we changed the approach because the goalkeeper has obviously said he doesn't want a lot of people on top of him. Even today in the second half there was a moment caught on cam where Sarr was asking whether he'd like him in there helping out and Vicario just waved him away.

When you ask for that to happen, you've got to be dealing with that area immediately in front of goal yourself. For goal three it's dropped centrally a couple of yards out. Lloris, Friedel, whoever from yesteryear would be getting slaughtered for not being there for it and so should he. I thought that one towards the end VDV headed off the line was just as bad.

There are huge problems with what the rest of the team are doing and they need rectifying, but the goalkeeper is just as big a problem and is probably a huge distraction for his team mates. @Shanks is completely right, his positioning footwork indecisiveness and inability to put himself about is really weak stuff and he allows himself to get tamely screened off, not even physically blocked off, with far too much ease.

For the record, in general I'm not too high on Vicario and if it was down to me he'd not be the Tottenham goalkeeper. Having an extremely solid shot-stopper was refreshing in the first weeks/months of the season, but I'd love and prioritise someone who is towards the elite end of pinging the ball about and can spray those passes through the lines (our football surely would be helped by this) and now we've got his set piece struggles on show. But I don't think we're going to be making a change, so in the coming months he simply must take huge steps in how he approaches these set pieces, because other teams are just going to keep bombarding him.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,052
36,562
People are totally missing though that a few weeks back we changed the approach because the goalkeeper has obviously said he doesn't want a lot of people on top of him. Even today in the second half there was a moment caught on cam where Sarr was asking whether he'd like him in there helping out and Vicario just waved him away.

When you ask for that to happen, you've got to be dealing with that area immediately in front of goal yourself. For goal three it's dropped centrally a couple of yards out. Lloris, Friedel, whoever from yesteryear would be getting slaughtered for not being there for it and so should he. I thought that one towards the end VDV headed off the line was just as bad.

There are huge problems with what the rest of the team are doing and they need rectifying, but the goalkeeper is just as big a problem and is probably a huge distraction for his team mates. @Shanks is completely right, his positioning footwork indecisiveness and inability to put himself about is really weak stuff and he allows himself to get tamely screened off, not even physically blocked off, with far too much ease.

For the record, in general I'm not too high on Vicario and if it was down to me he'd not be the Tottenham goalkeeper. Having an extremely solid shot-stopper was refreshing in the first weeks/months of the season, but I'd love and prioritise someone who is towards the elite end of pinging the ball about and can spray those passes through the lines (our football surely would be helped by this) and now we've got his set piece struggles on show. But I don't think we're going to be making a change, so in the coming months he simply must take huge steps in how he approaches these set pieces, because other teams are just going to keep bombarding him.


I have the exact opposite view here.

Goals thats been in corners is NOT Vicario's fault. He has some contributions to it. But brunt of the blame goes to lack of organisation.

  1. Gomes header Wolves game - Vicario wasnt blocked. Not marked, clean header.
  2. Zouma header WestHam game - Vicario had Antonio on him, but goal came bcause Zouma out jumped and unnmarked in 6 yard surrounded by 4 Spurs players - not one of them jumped or marked him
  3. Muniz goal Fulham game - Vicario wasnt blocked. Goal came from a corner ultimately won by Paulinha
  4. Schar goal Newcastle game - Unmarked Schar outright jumps every Spurs player
  5. Hojbjerg own goal Arsenal game - Take out White, Vicario isnt saving it regardless. Zonal marking fail.
  6. Havertz goal Arsenal game - Take out White, Vicario isnt saving it regardless.Zonal marking fail.
Only game where Vicario was purely at fault was in Everton draw where he was bullied.

Lets address the real problem, not scapegoating Vicario

If White isnt there, does Vicario save those 2 bullet headers - NOPE. Then why are we making it as if he contributed to the goals.

Real problem is elsewhere. Zonal marking or lack of marking. Lack of defensive organisation in set pieces
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,616
20,586
Vicario is not the problem. Both the goals came because, zonal marking at front post failed. Even if there was no White hindering him, theres no way he keeps both the goals away.
Even in previous games, it was just us losing the markers

Vicario has some troubles but he is not the no1 reason for these corner goals.
I don't disagree, but what I'm saying is, it's a targeted area because of the lack of dominance from him, which is also a factor.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,616
20,586
As others have said, I think it's the system, not the keeper that's the problem. He needs somebody physically strong to keep opposing players away from him. Nobody was even close to Ben White when he was getting in Vicario's face and it's been just like that for months. It's a very obvious problem we have had all season and it seems nothing has been done to address it.
And this is where the keeper shouldn't let him get near.

Tbh, I'm an ex keeper, and my sons a keeper, so all the way the outfielders are set up, I tend to look inwardly at what the keeper can do to stop it, he shouldn't let a single outfielder near him, yet he usually ends up behind his goal line on corners, which has been a big contribution for teams targeting that area

If that's my son, I'm calling him weak and to get stronger and solve that particular problem, six yard box, his issue to sort, not hising behind your defenders
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,052
36,562
I don't disagree, but what I'm saying is, it's a targeted area because of the lack of dominance from him, which is also a factor.

I am not disagreeing to it thats opponents are targeting him
But lets not ignore the real issue here. Its utter lack of organisation and basic corner defending from outfielders
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,940
32,751
I have the exact opposite view here.

Goals thats been in corners is NOT Vicario's fault. He has some contributions to it. But brunt of the blame goes to lack of organisation.

  1. Gomes header Wolves game - Vicario wasnt blocked. Not marked, clean header.
  2. Zouma header WestHam game - Vicario had Antonio on him, but goal came bcause Zouma out jumped and unnmarked in 6 yard surrounded by 4 Spurs players - not one of them jumped or marked him
  3. Muniz goal Fulham game - Vicario wasnt blocked. Goal came from a corner ultimately won by Paulinha
  4. Schar goal Newcastle game - Unmarked Schar outright jumps every Spurs player
  5. Hojbjerg own goal Arsenal game - Take out White, Vicario isnt saving it regardless. Zonal marking fail.
  6. Havertz goal Arsenal game - Take out White, Vicario isnt saving it regardless.Zonal marking fail.
Only game where Vicario was purely at fault was in Everton draw where he was bullied.

Lets address the real problem, not scapegoating Vicario

If White isnt there, does Vicario save those 2 bullet headers - NOPE. Then why are we making it as if he contributed to the goals.

Real problem is elsewhere. Zonal marking or lack of marking. Lack of defensive organisation in set pieces
Well look we're not going to go round in circles on this, but I can't agree.

Goal three today, and for instance the West Ham goal off the top of my head are ones he should have been claiming. Dropping slap bang centre of the goal, about three yards out, these are goalkeepers ball.

Vicario's problem is he has this habit of standing frozen in a crouched position and just watching the ball and then reacting far too late. He needs to anticipate more, he needs to get his feet moving and earlier, and if necessary needs to fight his ground and throw his weight about. Today all it took was for White to step in front of him, one single solitary step, pretty late on in the corner at that, and that was enough to completely fuck him up.

And I fully concede that the marking system is not working and needs to be fixed, but as I mentioned that zone right in front of the goalkeeper centrally is one the goalkeeper has asked to be clear of bodies. Therefore it is his to deal with and not surprising outfield players are not taking responsibility for it. Front post, system and outfield players problem. Back post, ditto. Right underneath the crossbar, that is the keeper at fault.
 

Shanks

Kinda not anymore....
May 11, 2005
31,616
20,586
I am not disagreeing to it thats opponents are targeting him
But lets not ignore the real issue here. Its utter lack of organisation and basic corner defending from outfielders
Zonal marking is awful anyway, it's easy to exploit, especially with a top team.

Doubled down even more that our keeper seems to crumber when someone is near him, makes it worse.

I'm not scapegoating vicario, he is a top keeper. But this is one area he really needs to improve on, as its really highlighted a pretty easy approach to scoring goals past us.
 

arunspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,052
36,562
Well look we're not going to go round in circles on this, but I can't agree.

Goal three today, and for instance the West Ham goal off the top of my head are ones he should have been claiming. Dropping slap bang centre of the goal, about three yards out, these are goalkeepers ball.

Vicario's problem is he has this habit of standing frozen in a crouched position and just watching the ball and then reacting far too late. He needs to anticipate more, he needs to get his feet moving and earlier, and if necessary needs to fight his ground and throw his weight about. Today all it took was for White to step in front of him, one single solitary step, pretty late on in the corner at that, and that was enough to completely fuck him up.

And I fully concede that the marking system is not working and needs to be fixed, but as I mentioned that zone right in front of the goalkeeper centrally is one the goalkeeper has asked to be clear of bodies. Therefore it is his to deal with and not surprising outfield players are not taking responsibility for it. Front post, system and outfield players problem. Back post, ditto. Right underneath the crossbar, that is the keeper at fault.


Westham goal....

Frame 1 : Its pouring rain at the time. Bissouma in front of Vicario. Bissouma trying to also unsettle Antonio. 4 Spurs players around Zouma. Van de Ven tries jumps and misreads flight of the ball and misses. And Zouma behind scores easly. Whoever the GK,in this situation is going to think twice before come out flapping. Given especially here Bissouma is front of him, he isnt going to bulldoze his way through

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