Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Gilzeanking]

. One last note on Kane here is that he is extremely intelligent in positioning himself off the ball so for example of it reverts to a 443 and Son is in the two with Kane then the former does press like mad and Kane just has to back him up.

Just checking that you are actually saying Son presses like mad.

Not something I've ever seen.

 

[KingNick]

I feel that when all are fit this is probably the best setup for the squad as is, with Porro the right winger and Kulusevski inside as a no.10. Will be interesting as to who we bring in that could enable a change in shape beyond this rather than just upgrading GK, CB and adding someone more creative in midfield, which are the three glaring areas always talked about.

Raya
Emerson Romero LCB Udogie
Bissouma Bentancur
Porro Kulusevski Son
Kane

is a tasty lineup with just two signings that we're going to be targeting anyway. Still believe that this squad is not as shit as the rap that it gets based on the wank football we've been playing.

If we are going with a double pivot then I’d go even more attacking elsewhere. Porro back to right back and then Deki moves to his normal position with Maddison (or whoever we get if not him) as the 10.
To dare is to do!

 

[ralphs bald spot]

I think there’s a plethora of things that managers have to consider when managing say a Mpabbe compared to a player in the Australian league.

Is there ? primarily the same I would say the greatest managers primarily have a simple message as long as players have a clear job to do within a coherent team plan players will buy into it

 

[FuturistiC123]

If we are going with a double pivot then I’d go even more attacking elsewhere. Porro back to right back and then Deki moves to his normal position with Maddison (or whoever we get if not him) as the 10.
To date is to do!

The entire post is right on the money. just cause Celtic played 4-3-3, doesn't mean we will; not at least until we have the squad to do it. And that won't occur in one window, and may not if 4-2-3-1 is a success. Meant to include your entire post, never mind.

 

[E17yid]

Is there ? primarily the same I would say the greatest managers primarily have a simple message as long as players have a clear job to do within a coherent team plan players will buy into it

The average salary for an A league player is 182k pa. Mpabbe pisses that in under a week let alone a whole year. That is going to, imo, massively effect a players ego, lifestyle, career, attitude, ambition, the type of training and facilities they’re used to, the type of players and managers they mix with etc etc.

There’s obviously going to be similarities and everyone is different so not saying this is going to be the same for everyone but ultimately it’s a different kettle of fish imho.

 

[C-oops]

Groundhog Day for every manager that comes into this club under ENIC.

Yeah or we actually have a manager who is adaptable and flexible in his approach.

 

[Styopa]

The average salary for an A league player is 182k pa. Mpabbe pisses that in under a week let alone a whole year. That is going to, imo, massively effect a players ego, lifestyle, career, attitude, ambition, the type of training and facilities they’re used to, the type of players and managers they mix with etc etc.

There’s obviously going to be similarities and everyone is different so not saying this is going to be the same for everyone but ultimately it’s a different kettle of fish imho.

My view on this is he has to start somewhere. He deserves the opportunity to prove himself at a higher level, just like a talented player moving up to the Premier League deserves the chance to prove themselves at a higher level.

One thing is for sure, though; he has done it the hard way. High-profile ex-pros like Gerrard and Lampard are intimately acquainted with the vaunted lifestyle of modern-day footballers. Yet they could not translate that knowledge and experience into success in their most recent managerial jobs.

 

[Styopa]

Just checking that you are actually saying Son presses like mad.

Not something I've ever seen.

I think this is partly because we stopped being a pressing team about five years ago.

I doubt Son has been instructed to "press like mad" by any of our recent coaches.

Probably his role will change under Ange. Whether he still has the legs to press ferociously is another question.

 

[E17yid]

My view on this is he has to start somewhere. He deserves the opportunity to prove himself at a higher level, just like a talented player moving up to the Premier League deserves the chance to prove themselves at a higher level.

One thing is for sure, though; he has done it the hard way. High-profile ex-pros like Gerrard and Lampard are intimately acquainted with the vaunted lifestyle of modern-day footballers. Yet they could not translate that knowledge and experience into success in their most recent managerial jobs.

Ange doesn’t talk to players 1 on 1 anyway so I guess he’s less concerned about these man management differences anyway as he never bothered with it when managing players on small (by football standards) wages.

 

[Trix]

Are we any more suited to that then 4-3-3 though? Bissouma's best games were as a deeper 6 in a 3 at Brighton, Bentancur's best season was as a marauding 8 in Sarri's system, PEH plays better as a marauding 8 for Denmark. We also have Lo Celso (when not injured) and Ndombele (doubt he will ever work hard enough though) that are 8's, where as we only have Kulu and maybe Devine (not a creative 10) that can play 10.

Royal Romero new CB Udogie
..................Bissouma
...Bentancur....PEH (or Kulu or Sarr or Devine)
Kulu (or Porro).......................Son
........................Kane

IMO yes. Anyway as I said I'm only using 4-2-3-1 as an example, I don't know exactly what formation Ange will play, only that he didn't think our squad best fit into his Celtic version of 4-3-3.

 

[Albertbarich]

I maintain that son will harrass and press defenders and has the stamina to maintain it. The issue has been nobody in our team looks like an effective presser because they don't do it in packs or in any organised way.

Anyway I was thinking about different formations Ange could try and I know people will hate this and I don't for one second think Ange will do it but I do wonder if a 352 works best.

The whole thing being effective would rely(in my thoughts anyway) on Romero playing as the central centre back and stepping up into midfield when in position to create a 4 man central midfield. It would then allow our two very attacking new wing backs to play high up, it would create a Kane and son partnership and the extra man would be a playmaker.

This could be an attacking team with intent and would suit our squad right now.

 

[PLTuck]

It'll be interesting to see what our defence looks like on Sep 1st. We don't really have the CBs Romero aside to play a high line and the quick passing that Ange likes, and we don't have many fullbacks. Romero also seems a bit injury prone and has been out for quite a lot of games over 2 seasons. Sanchez has the pace but not the composure, Dier and Lenglet don't have the pace. Rodon and Tanganga probably want regular football. Perisic, Sess, UDogie, Spence, and Porro are all wingbacks who will possibly get very exposed in a back 4. Reggie and Davies could play LB and Emerson is a better fullback than wingback imo so with a couple of pacey technical CBs it could work.

It's definitely going to be a test for Ange as selling and bringing in an entirely new defence in one window just isn't realistic.

 

[spursfan77]

There's also the possibility that he could adapt his system to reflect his squad and the stronger opposition.

I’ve been thinking from the start that this is exactly what he will do. The man is no idiot and will take everything into account including playing players in their best rolls. It’s why I haven’t got too drawn into all these videos and articles highlighting how Celtic have played.

 

[Timberwolf]

Absolutely spot on we hire a forward playing manager and his first job is to change his style that made him so successful elsewhere because the club won't fully back him.

We know how this goes. Honestly what is the point.

I'm sure the change in formation would be Ange's choice rather than something foisted onto him by Levy like it was on Nuno (which was a genuine joke). Ange doesn't strike me as the type to have anything tactical forced on him from above - he wouldn't accept it.

I don't think his changing system initially would mean he's "not being fully backed". It's more that our squad is just fundamentally not well suited to an instant switch to 4-3-3 and it would take too much surgery in one window given how much deadwood we've acquired.

And tbh, who knows? He hasn't even started pre-season yet so maybe he will end up playing the 4-3-3 anyway.

 

[Oscar22]

I’m not expecting Ange to come in and immediately play his preferred formation but I don’t think that’s necessarily a sign of not being backed - he hasn’t had the time to be backed yet.

I’m expecting him to come in, and play a system that works best for the players we have and then over time change that and start adding players that benefit the system so that he CAN change to whatever system he wanted to play.

The problem currently isn’t actually being backed, it’s that we’ve spent years flip-flopping about with no clear strategy of recruitment and playing style. So we have an oversized squad that we need to clear first in order to create the spaces to buy players of a style that Ange wants, and therefore actually backing him. That’s not going to happen in its entirety this summer.

If it gets to that point and he isn’t backed then fine we can jump on that, but at this moment in time we can’t view him not playing his favoured formation immediately as not being backed, because there is a LOT of work to do in the interim, based around solving many years of poor project management.

 

[KingNick]

It'll be interesting to see what our defence looks like on Sep 1st. We don't really have the CBs Romero aside to play a high line and the quick passing that Ange likes, and we don't have many fullbacks. Romero also seems a bit injury prone and has been out for quite a lot of games over 2 seasons. Sanchez has the pace but not the composure, Dier and Lenglet don't have the pace. Rodon and Tanganga probably want regular football. Perisic, Sess, UDogie, Spence, and Porro are all wingbacks who will possibly get very exposed in a back 4. Reggie and Davies could play LB and Emerson is a better fullback than wingback imo so with a couple of pacey technical CBs it could work.

It's definitely going to be a test for Ange as selling and bringing in an entirely new defence in one window just isn't realistic.

Every time I see this comment about Porro / Udogie, I wonder if everyone forgets that our best left back of recent times was converted from being an out and out winger not even a wing back.

Porro in particular has a lot of experience as a full back in a 4, just not necessarily at Sporting. Man City signed him as they believed he would be a Walker replacement at some point.

Udogie has been highly praised for his defensive work this season.

 

[Albertbarich]

Every time I see this comment about Porro / Udogie, I wonder if everyone forgets that our best left back of recent times was converted from being an out and out winger not even a wing back.

Porro in particular has a lot of experience as a full back in a 4, just not necessarily at Sporting. Man City signed him as they believed he would be a Walker replacement at some point.

Udogie has been highly praised for his defensive work this season.

Different roles though and to retrain two of them at the same time is a big ask.

Let's see, going to be really interesting to watch some of the choices he makes.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

He's played quite a few formations over the course of his career, including a back 3 at times with Australia and Yokohama Marinos, so I don't think he's absolutely wedded to a single formation. I think he has very strong principles but is also willing to adapt his formation to the players at his disposal.

I think given our squad making the 4-3-3 work off the bat would be bloody hard as he can't sign like 14 players like he did at Celtic cos we've already got a 30 man squad with a ton of players we need to shift. Think it's natural that he'd try to come up with a formation that suits the strengths of the key players we've got.

Kane alone makes it hard to replicate his Celtic 4-3-3 as he simply can't sprint and press all game as a no.9, so makes sense to come up with a solution to get the best out of your single world class player, I think.

4-2-3-1 that could slowly morph into 4-3–3 as we make more signings would make most sense.

 

[cockerel downunder]

4231 does make sense as the fullbacks play high and wide with 2 DMs to cover for them, which suits porro & our midfielders.
Kane could play at 10 with Richy up front to do more of the pressing, Kane sits on the opposition 6 so less running around needed. I’ve always thought Kane, richy, kulu & son would be a fearsome front 4

 

[RogerTCB]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6tpoWms1vXpBn6WIuWhRBD?si=zjvT5T7iS8iHXZ45uEyxIQ

This is good, an interview from 2020. He goes in depth into this thought process.

[I've not read the pages between this post and now, so apologies if already posted.] A bit which jumped out at me regarding Ange's philosophy was this quote from the big man:
"
I always say to coaches, if you want to know what your philosophy is, I can do it for you in one exercise. "If you were going to have one game this weekend which was going to decide if you had a career in football, how would you play?" And [the answer] - that's your coaching philosophy.
And if your natural inclination is, 'You know what? If it's that bigger game, if it's that important, I'm going to set up my team [so] that we're hard to beat, that we don't lose, we don't take risks.' then that's your journey. Embrace it, take it and make it what you want.

I know that if there was a game this weekend that was going to decide whether I had a career in football or not, I'd go for it all out and try and win that game by as many goals as possible.

Once you embrace that as a coach, you don't fear the challenging times.
"
That made me happy. Interestingly, he also went on to say he finds it more challenging when there is success. "What's the next layer?"