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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
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Arteta had no previous experience of managing a football team. Lucking his way to a trophy in his first season was no reason to stick with him considering some of the dire results and league finishes they had in the following seasons.

Liverpool were no more dross than we were when Ange took over. Only a couple seasons before they had been in a title race.

Pep finishing 4th in his first season was an underachievement considering he took over a team with a infinite resources.

The constant is that they were all given time with the long term in mind.

Yes this is the highest level Ange has competed at but it's not a given that he should be competing for top 4, most fans and pundits had us finishing top 6-8 at best after losing Kane. Now all of sudden a lot seem in the doldrums that we're not pushing top 4. Surely the fact he has made such a positive impact in less than a season is a reason to have faith that he can continue to manage the team to improve?
Great post
 

fishhhandaricecake

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2018
19,693
49,279
Subjective arguments about relative team strength, and fatigue (and the average working week??) aside.. the facts are:

Season before Klopp's arrival, Liverpool finished 6th - so if we conveniently ignore Klopp's 8th place where he only managed a 'mere' 30 games, as you want to, he then took them from 6th-4th.

Pep took a side that finished 4th the previous year to 3rd.

Arteta took a side that finished 5th and took them to 8th.

Ange looks to be taking a side that finished 8th into 5th/4th.

In terms of prior league finishes, Ange has inherited the weakest team, but we are potentially going to have the biggest positive jump this season (though we can accept improving gets progressively harder the higher you go, of course).
Another great post
 

Misfit

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub
May 7, 2006
21,430
35,659
I think you’re right, but there’s other fundamental differences too.

1. Ange’s preferred style of football is much more aligned with the club and the fans than Conte’s preferred style.

2. Ange’s style of football is more aligned with how most successful teams play right now than Conte’s, e.g Man C, Liverpool, Arsenal

3. Ange’s style of communication resonates more with the majority of fans than Conte’s style, I think.

4. We were small fry for Conte. It was a step down for him he let us know it, whereas for Ange we are the biggest job of his career.

5. Ange seems to want to be here. By the second season Conte was making noises about not wanting to remain here, and his contract was expiring at the end of the season.
No disagreement whatsoever. Just vis a vis the general principles/belief in system etc. Broad strokes similarities. Obviously philosophy and personality they are night and day from each other.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,060
6,228
I'm sure he is. You learn far more from your losses than you ever do from your wins. Even if it's just about the mentality of your players in tough circumstances. One thing we do know is that Ange won't put up with slacking off or giving up when the going gets tough.
What action do you think he'll take, then?
 

Trix

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2004
20,015
335,638
You'd have to link the Ange out posts I think.

I've personally only seen on which was on a match thread.

And match threads don't really count.

Emotions are too high.
Indeed very few actually near that point imo. I think negative comments are being interpreted the wrong way and being blown way out of proportion.

Nearly all fans that are criticising certain aspects of what we are doing are also very optimistic about what's going on as far as I can see.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
3,852
5,719
Indeed and I have no doubt he won't act the same way Conte did even if it gets to that point. The two of them are very different in that regard. Like I said everyone is focussing on the differences and ignoring the similarities. Those similarities will be the reason he fails here, if of course he does.
There are many potential reasons for failure if he fails. He may not be good enough for a top league, for example. Or it may be impossible for him to overcome a comfortable club culture that simply cannot break free of self satisfaction to really challenge for top honors.

But certainly I agree that Levy's own smug interference and sub par transfer activity will be in play too.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,615
2,286
He wasn't a club legend and he isn't a good example of fans buying into the manager, it's a good example of the upper management sticking with a course of action in the face of pressure. He'd have been toast if they followed the fan voice.
I agree and observed this becase of AFTV. It was fun to watch when Arsenal was terrible. They were in relegation-form at one point.

The Kronkes deserve credit for sticking with Arteta. If it was up to the fans Arteta would have been long gone. This is one example of the owners knowing more than the fans.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
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I don’t think the players aren’t motivated more that they’re very tired due to coming back from injuries, international tournaments in Jan and not being used to this style of play over a full season yet.
We've played one game more than the absolute minimum possible. Tiredness is the lamest excuse.

And I'll be interested if Ange remains consistent next season and we have European footy again. This season he's had a moan that our season has been disrupted by too many odd gaps in the schedule. Like another 2 week gap now. He's lamented a lack of mid week action.

I'd like to think he won't flip the script next season and join the chorus about playing too much. I reckon he'll stay consistent and prefer more games.

But it may depend on how we're doing.
 

Toast

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2014
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The Kronkes deserve credit for sticking with Arteta.
IMG_0108.jpeg
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,615
2,286
We've played one game more than the absolute minimum possible. Tiredness is the lamest excuse.

And I'll be interested if Ange remains consistent next season and we have European footy again. This season he's had a moan that our season has been disrupted by too many odd gaps in the schedule. Like another 2 week gap now. He's lamented a lack of mid week action.

I'd like to think he won't flip the script next season and join the chorus about playing too much. I reckon he'll stay consistent and prefer more games.

But it may depend on how we're doing.
We might even digress next year. If we finish 5th this year there is no gurantee we will finish better than that next year. Therefore just enjoy this ride while it lasts.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
8,097
30,189
Has anyone shared this article? Everything points to Ange making structural changes to how his teams play during the 2nd season.


In his second season, Postecoglou’s back line would more often convert into a three. One full-back pushed forward, with the other maintaining their depth. This proved particularly useful when playing against teams that set up with a front two, as the widest of the newly formed back three could step into midfield.

webpc-passthru.php


The single pivot, mostly Callum McGregor would offer between the two opposition centre-forwards (above), with full-backs Greg Taylor, Alistair Johnston or Josip Juranovic – who left for Union Berlin in the January transfer window – all capable of pushing forward to provide crosses, invert inside to add an extra body in the middle or stay withdrawn as part of a three-man back line.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
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5,719
We might even digress next year. If we finish 5th this year there is no gurantee we will finish better than that next year. Therefore just enjoy this ride while it lasts.
Enjoying the ride hinges a lot on how we play. Not so much where we finish, although I'm probably kidding myself a little on that front.

When we look back to the Redknapp and Poch eras, we remember exciting football and fairly constant attacking footy with lots of shots and crosses. Disappointing defeats and all the usual falling short, but exciting footy. But over the last few years, we go whole sections of games, 30 mins, 45 mins, 60 mins +, without a decent shot or chance created.

I'd like Ange to cut that shit out. The sideways horseshit is really sinking back in.

And nobody will enjoy that ride, regardless of placement in the league.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,615
2,286
Enjoying the ride hinges a lot on how we play. Not so much where we finish, although I'm probably kidding myself a little on that front.

When we look back to the Redknapp and Poch eras, we remember exciting football and fairly constant attacking footy with lots of shots and crosses. Disappointing defeats and all the usual falling short, but exciting footy. But over the last few years, we go whole sections of games, 30 mins, 45 mins, 60 mins +, without a decent shot or chance created.

I'd like Ange to cut that shit out. The sideways horseshit is really sinking back in.

And nobody will enjoy that ride, regardless of placement in the league.
I dont blame Ange for the sideways football. It's how 'front-foot' football looks when it doesn't work. If you can't pass it around/forward where else to go but sideways/back? Arsenal's been doing it for a long time; until last year.

I dont think its fair to compare Redknapp's team to this one. He was lucky to have Modric; who was several classes above everyone else in the team. We dont have that sort of quality in this squad now.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2005
4,281
20,981
Has anyone shared this article? Everything points to Ange making structural changes to how his teams play during the 2nd season.


In his second season, Postecoglou’s back line would more often convert into a three. One full-back pushed forward, with the other maintaining their depth. This proved particularly useful when playing against teams that set up with a front two, as the widest of the newly formed back three could step into midfield.

webpc-passthru.php


The single pivot, mostly Callum McGregor would offer between the two opposition centre-forwards (above), with full-backs Greg Taylor, Alistair Johnston or Josip Juranovic – who left for Union Berlin in the January transfer window – all capable of pushing forward to provide crosses, invert inside to add an extra body in the middle or stay withdrawn as part of a three-man back line.

This is great, thanks for sharing!
 

TOLBINY

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2019
1,256
2,878
I think he'd go to the board, give them an ultimatum, and then just walk if he didn't get the result he wanted.
Could that be fairly summed up as if he does not get what he wants he would not want to be here?
 

NEVILLEB

Well-Known Member
Nov 6, 2006
6,819
6,467
Sarr is even less defensively aware than Bissouma. I don't know who works in that role but I think it's the only way we adapt long term to this issue of getting exposed.

To those thinking Ange won't adapt - you don't have a career of 20 years in football without learn you need to change from time to time. Ange will adapt but when the players haven't fully acclimated to his system yet I think his priorities are still to get the players to understand that first and then look at the gaps
I think you’re right.

There is no one actually suited to playing DM in our team. No one has the defensive instincts and discipline needed to do the role in Ange’s system.

New DM and Striker needed urgently this summer.

Spend the money Levy!
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
8,277
12,668
Could that be fairly summed up as if he does not get what he wants he would not want to be here?

Sounds more like he'd walk if people without the required football knowledge start making suggestions on player recruitment.
I don't think he's demanding, just wants things done properly.
 
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