Lucas Moura airs right-wing views and compares communism to Nazism

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Their hypocrisy does not justify Bolsonaro's policies and rhetoric, nor Lucas' public support for them.

Your post is not exactly both-sides-ism, but it's something closely related to it.

Yours isn't particularly either. Brazil is a country with a lot of issues that don't relate to the more financially stable world, like the UK. Whilst I agree he's not the most wholesome of characters in his views, he did offer up a maifesto that the people of Brazil felt was closest to solving the world they live in. Mostly around the crime epidemic.

I'm not an apologist for bolsonaro, his environmental policy is en-par with trumps climate change dismissals, only worse. his policy on 'Brazil must not become a haven for gay tourism' an example of his at odds with the modern world Ideals.

Indeed, its a rising issue closer to home. See Meloni and Le Pen. When you have disenfranchisement of voters, marginalised rural communities it's a failure of mainstream politics to address those concerns. It's where the more nefarious individuals exploit fears.

However, context of his standing is required. The while backdrop of Brazil, economically and socially is a bit of a mess. previous parties and politicians have failed to generate adequate opportunities for the wider population. Bolsonaro offered economic and social opportunities. (If he delivered them or not is questionable).

If you live in that zone, you may find the ideals of gay rights etc far down the list of priorities.

In relation to moura, he may see bolsonaro as the solution to the immediate issues but struggle with the other elements. Unless he expands on it then it's unlikely we'll know. Boys entitled to his views, in the context of his homeland and upbringing.

 

[dontcallme]

Like what’s been done to Lucas

What's been done to Lucas is a generalisation?

 

[davidmatzdorf]

Who defines what "hate" is? Oh that's right, it's whoever your political opponents are, when they want to silence you

I already answered that:

His politics are about depriving other people of their liberties, based on characteristics those people can do nothing about. He's a racist, a homophobe, a sexist and a religious bigot.

By contrast, opposing someone because of their political views (or their religion) is not hate, because you can choose your politics and your religion.

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

What's been done to Lucas is a generalisation?

yeh, mate

 

[Dennism]

There are a lot of people making excuses for Bolsonaro on here. They are defending the indefensible. He is the latest in a long line of self serving evil dictators. He has caused untold harm and misery. Anybody who doesn’t realise this needs to have a good hard look at themselves.

 

[Dennism]

Yours isn't particularly either. Brazil is a country with a lot of issues that don't relate to the more financially stable world, like the UK. Whilst I agree he's not the most wholesome of characters in his views, he did offer up a maifesto that the people of Brazil felt was closest to solving the world they live in. Mostly around the crime epidemic.

I'm not an apologist for bolsonaro, his environmental policy is en-par with trumps climate change dismissals, only worse. his policy on 'Brazil must not become a haven for gay tourism' an example of his at odds with the modern world Ideals.

Indeed, its a rising issue closer to home. See Meloni and Le Pen. When you have disenfranchisement of voters, marginalised rural communities it's a failure of mainstream politics to address those concerns. It's where the more nefarious individuals exploit fears.

However, context of his standing is required. The while backdrop of Brazil, economically and socially is a bit of a mess. previous parties and politicians have failed to generate adequate opportunities for the wider population. Bolsonaro offered economic and social opportunities. (If he delivered them or not is questionable).

If you live in that zone, you may find the ideals of gay rights etc far down the list of priorities.

In relation to moura, he may see bolsonaro as the solution to the immediate issues but struggle with the other elements. Unless he expands on it then it's unlikely we'll know. Boys entitled to his views, in the context of his homeland and upbringing.

He doesn’t address the relevant issues if you are gay, poor, vulnerable to COVID or care about the future of the planet. Personally I aspire to politicians of higher morality and calibre than the likes of Bolsonaro and his ilk. For God sake, if he loses the election he is likely to lead a coup. Says it all really.

 

[Japhet]

There are a lot of people making excuses for Bolsonaro on here. They are defending the indefensible. He is the latest in a long line of self serving evil dictators. He has caused untold harm and misery. Anybody who doesn’t realise this needs to have a good hard look at themselves.

You could make a list as long as your arm of South and Central American politicians who fall into precisely the same catagory. I don't think people are 'making excuses' for, or defending Bolsonaro at all, but they do realise that there is little or no chance of electing anybody who isn't corrupt, controversial, dishonest, self-serving or any number of other faults. It's just how things are in that part of the World, and much as we don't like it, it won't change any time soon.

 

[Styopa]

You could make a list as long as your arm of South and Central American politicians who fall into precisely the same catagory. I don't think people are 'making excuses' for, or defending Bolsonaro at all, but they do realise that there is little or no chance of electing anybody who isn't corrupt, controversial, dishonest, self-serving or any number of other faults. It's just how things are in that part of the World, and much as we don't like it, it won't change any time soon.

Even if this is true, it doesn’t follow that Lucas is justified in publicly supporting Bolsonaro. He could have remained silent, kept his views to himself or lamented the lack of credible candidates. Lucas is a public figure using a public platform to expound his (seriously misguided imo) political views. He should be prepared to answer to those views. He doesn’t get a free ticket whatever his upbringing. We don’t give other people who spout racist or homophobic hate speech or abuse a free ticket just because they may have had a tough upbringing.

 

[Japhet]

Even if this is true, it doesn’t follow that Lucas is justified in publicly supporting Bolsonaro. He could have remained silent, kept his views to himself or lamented the lack of credible candidates. Lucas is a public figure using a public platform to expound his (seriously misguided imo) political views. He should be prepared to answer to those views. He doesn’t get a free ticket whatever his upbringing. We don’t give other people who spout racist or homophobic hate speech or abuse a free ticket just because they may have had a tough upbringing.

His interview was with Cara a Tapa, not the Daily Mail. When did he 'spout racist or homophobic hate speech' by the way?

 

[Ravenyonaz]

I think the legacy of the likes of Mao and Stalin makes that comparison more than fair.

Were they really Communists? Perhaps more Authoritarians, right? But that's another story!

 

[Dennism]

You could make a list as long as your arm of South and Central American politicians who fall into precisely the same catagory. I don't think people are 'making excuses' for, or defending Bolsonaro at all, but they do realise that there is little or no chance of electing anybody who isn't corrupt, controversial, dishonest, self-serving or any number of other faults. It's just how things are in that part of the World, and much as we don't like it, it won't change any time soon.

This sort of politician exists in all parts of the world. Just because there are a lot of them doesn’t make Bolsonaro any better.

 

[Japhet]

This sort of politician exists in all parts of the world. Just because there are a lot of them doesn’t make Bolsonaro any better.

Of course it doesn't, but the fact remains that it's highly unlikely the people of Brazil can elect somebody they can trust. Even Lucas Moura seems to be saying that in his opinion, Bolsonaro is the least shit of 2 shit candidates.

 

[TheChosenOne]

You could make a list as long as your arm of South and Central American politicians who fall into precisely the same catagory. I don't think people are 'making excuses' for, or defending Bolsonaro at all, but they do realise that there is little or no chance of electing anybody who isn't corrupt, controversial, dishonest, self-serving or any number of other faults. It's just how things are in that part of the World, and much as we don't like it, it won't change any time soon.

You could make a list of superpower countries that have bombed the shite out of other countries and committed genocide on huge scales. Follow the money, the minerals and oils. They are also self serving, dishonest and control their media outlets fooling their own people who think our leaders are nice people.

 

[Snuzzy]

I think the legacy of the likes of Mao and Stalin makes that comparison more than fair.

Would a communist agree or disagree that Stalin and Mao operated according the fundamental principles of Communism - which absolutely anyone can read, there is literally a Communist Manifesto - eg that the workers control the means of production, from each according to his ability to each according to his need? Would they agree that operating gulag and killing tonnes of people were intrinsic parts of operating communist principles? Would they say that the major problem here was in a complete breakdown and failure to adhere to the basic core principles of communism?

Contrastingly, would a commited Nazi agree that Hitler operated according to Nazi principles (the party he founded organised and shaped)? Would it follow that the core principles of Nazism - the ethnic superiority of the aryan race, the need for dedicated lebensraum allocated for the Germanic peoples, the need to forcibly dismantle the machinery of 'international Jewry' - intrinsically connected to killing tonnes of people? Was the problem of Nazism that they absolutely *did* follow its core tenets and principles?

This is such an intellectually simple level and its absurd that both side ism is so prevalent in casually saying "oh its a horseshoe, Nazis communists both evil no need to examine further".
This would be my main defence of Lucas - nothing in the deluded crap he's saying is beyond completely ordinary to people baked into mainstream right wing narratives.

 

[Japhet]

Were they really Communists? Perhaps more Authoritarians, right? But that's another story!

I don't think there are any communist leaders that don't put themselves significantly higher up the pecking order than the other members of the 'commune'. Trouble is, they usually resort to all sorts of barbarism to make sure that's how it stays.

 

[blitzfyr]

Were they really Communists? Perhaps more Authoritarians, right? But that's another story!

You’re sort of proving his point by this comment in that in terms of human rights impact at least, there’s little between the the worst exponents of far right and far left ideologies.

 

[Spurslove]

Don't agree with him, and some of the things he likes on social media is concerning to say the least: some very nasty homophobic stuff.

However, he's clearly from a very religious, conservative background and comes from a country with a completely different political landscape to the UK. While I think some of his views are abhorrent, I don't think 'cancelling' people is the answer in these situations - better to open a dialogue and talk to them rather than blanket banning them and kicking them out of the club or whatever. People are complicated and reducing them to binary acceptable/unacceptable based on their political views doesn't strike me as very progressive. He's not an actual Nazi.

I bet if you trawled every famous persons social media accounts, there'd be more surprises than we'd ever imagine, and more nasty ones than nice. It's what social media too often does to people.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

Bolsanaro is a repugnant tosser. I hope that Lucas Moura is sobbing his heart out after the Brazilian election.

 

[Yakflange]

For those arguing about communism, you're missing the point a bit. Moura labelled Bolsonaro's main rival Lula as a communist, which he blatantly isn't - he's actually a relatively moderate social democrat (and there are parties farther to the left of his in Brazil), and has a reasonable track record from when he was in power before - whereas Bolsonaro blatantly is an evil, far-right bastard.

 

[Albertbarich]

Man said something I disagree with, move on.

I don't go to footballers for moral guidance , nobody does if we did the Saudis wouldn't be at Newcastle and we wouldn't be about to have a world cup in Qatar.

His seems a nice guy who everyone at the club likes which is more important than having silly political views surely?