Kyle Walker

[Bus-Conductor]

I was one of the numpties at Carlisle who saw a number of our youngsters a million miles away from our first team.

I have also seen Adam Smith play a number of times on TV for Millwall in which he has not stood out whatsoever, or more often than not not even been selected to start!

As for Walker, he and Naughton had quite a reputation at Sheff Utd before we signed them. Funnily enough, Naughton was deemed the brighter prospect of the two. But in answer to your question, I had definitely heard of Kyle Walker pre-Spurs.

Adam Smith, at 22, has nowhere near the pedigree, experience or success that Walker nor Naughton had at the same age.

If Smith genuinely is "highly rated" by our coaches, this has not been reflected in his appearances for the first team.

Tom Carroll is rated highly because he is a talented footballer, but there are still question marks regarding his physique, fitness and stamina. I don't think any of us see him as the next Jack Wilshire.

I think you need to dampen down your expectations of these youngsters, or look at them with greater realism Knarf44.

Or just open your eyes.

I have seen Smith on a few occasions, for our U19 Next Gen team, for England's various teams and a couple of Millwall games. In every game I saw him he was excellent going forward (he received the MOTM in the last England U21 game I watched him in). It's fair to say that he has some learning to do defensively but in most of the games I have seen (about 7/8ish) he wasn't bad defensively, just a typical kid, learning - and let's be honest Walker has been dire defensively for big chunks of this season and he's now in his what 3rd year of EPL football and 4th/5th season over all.

Smith is technically (by that I mean technique on the ball, composure on the ball under pressure etc) better than Walker. He shows signs of being more intelligent (evidenced by choices he makes on the ball, and most notably when attacking - not so much defending). He is not as quick as Walker. Not as strong, or as tall (so won't be as good in the air). Personally I like the kid a lot from what I have seen, but I have only seen a handful of games. A good comparison would be Steven Carr IMO. He is that type. I still think Carr is the best right back we've had in recent years.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Sorry was a quick response (on the loo if the truth be told - not sure if you wanted to know that) but whilst a footballing brain may not be 'taught' as such equally I don't think it always come naturally. There have been many examples of where a player has developed his footballing brain or awareness as they get older / more experienced. In fact none more so than our Ledley.

I know this will seem strange particulary as he is now seen as a legend (and rightly so) but when he first come to light he wasn't the best in terms of his footballing brain and relied initially on his pace (I can cite a few examples of various mix ups with the keeper - through lack of communication and also episodes of lack of concentration ala Gardener).

A little too much info there.

I disagree about King. I'm not saying he was super intelligent, he wasn't. But he had a better ability to read the game, even at the get go, than Walker does. Also, King had better technique and composure on the ball under pressure than Walker, even in the beginning.

 

[Nocando]

I have seen Smith on a few occasions, for our U19 Next Gen team, for England's various teams and a couple of Millwall games. In every game I saw him he was excellent going forward (he received the MOTM in the last England U21 game I watched him in). It's fair to say that he has some learning to do defensively but in most of the games I have seen (about 7/8ish) he wasn't bad defensively, just a typical kid, learning - and let's be honest Walker has been dire defensively for big chunks of this season and he's now in his what 3rd year of EPL football and 4th/5th season over all.

Smith is technically (by that I mean technique on the ball, composure on the ball under pressure etc) better than Walker. He shows signs of being more intelligent (evidenced by choices he makes on the ball, and most notably when attacking - not so much defending). He is not as quick as Walker. Not as strong, or as tall (so won't be as good in the air). Personally I like the kid a lot from what I have seen, but I have only seen a handful of games. A good comparison would be Steven Carr IMO. He is that type. I still think Carr is the best right back we've had in recent years.

You do realise that Kyle plays in the premier league and Smith doesn't....

 

[Bus-Conductor]

You do realise that Kyle plays in the premier league and Smith doesn't....

I don't see how that is relevant to what I said.

 

[Legend10]

What you have done here is invert the argument. Some people said Walker had the attributes to be "to quality". Some people had the temerity to point out that Walker has strengths and weaknesses (and I didn't see a post that said otherwise) and definitely lacks some qualities to be top class. You responded by saying these were "crap" posts and that he's one of the best young rb's in the league, which is a bit like saying of the 4/5 young right backs he's one of the best, which isn't really saying anything insightful or overtly meaningful is it ?

No one said he's shit, shit, shit. I would argue that those saying he's got strengths and weaknesses and actually pointing out those strengths and weaknesses are far more balanced and accurate than those claiming that others have said things they haven't or claiming that he has qualities which he clearly doesn't.

You have basically repeatedly pointed along the lines of Walker being shit along with quite a few of our other players, describing them as shit, wankers, thick, etc etc etc.

Do you want to explain to us what you see as the requirements for a good FB and the complexities that they may face in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1 system for example and why it's a more difficult position than CB for example where it's easier to be a younger player?

 

[Spurs1]

It annoys me that walker gets questioned on here. Hes young, fast and very strong. He has had a few lapses in concentration but he has also been our only attacking threat for large sections of games. Give the guy a break. His heart is in it and hes one of the top 3/4 right backs in the league. Worth 12-15m easy

 

[Legend10]

Walker is way ahead of Smith at this stage, he struggled to get in Millwall's team for gods sake where as Walker has been the PFA young player of the year voted for by his peers who have an idea or 2 and has been playing in the Prem for nearly 3 years now!

Also Gary Neville who knows a thing about RB's rates him very highly and he doesn't hesitate to be negative about players who he sees as not good enough.

Also all this technique stuff is pure nonsense, he is technically sound.

 

[dontcallme]

I'm a little on the fence about Walker.

He has bags of pace, works very hard and gets up and down the pitch all game long giving us width which we so often lack. Playing in such an advanced position will mean he gets caught out of position from time-to-time and will make mistakes like any young defender.

I am concerned about his technique though. He gets forward a lot but his crossing isn't very good and he needs to make more of an impact going forward.

Right now I'm happy for us to continue to develop him and if we change to a 433 then the width he gives us will work better in our team.

I'm not confident that he'll ever get to international quality but hope we give him another season as 1st choice right back.

 

[chrissivad]

If you knew anything about our young players you would know that Smith is highly rated by our coaches and is very much considered to be a first team squad player, on the same basis as Carroll (who by the way failed to get into Derby's side when he was there) but look how highly he's rated now!

I have only seen him play a couple of times, and he has looked good, but who is saying he is considered to be a first team squad player?

I havent head anyone call him this yet

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Walker is way ahead of Smith at this stage, he struggled to get in Millwall's team for gods sake where as Walker has been the PFA young player of the year voted for by his peers who have an idea or 2 and has been playing in the Prem for nearly 3 years now!

Also Gary Neville who knows a thing about RB's rates him very highly and he doesn't hesitate to be negative about players who he sees as not good enough.

Also all this technique stuff is pure nonsense, he is technically sound.

The same Gary Neville that compared Aedbayor's role to Carlos Tevez's in the Spurs v ManC game ? Or said Adebayor was playing badly in the Chelsea game ?

 

[Nocando]

I don't see how that is relevant to what I said.

Just that it appeared you were comparing Walkers traits with Smith when they boh play different levels of football. Good technique / footballing brain in one doesn't = good technique / footballing brain in another. That surely needs consideration or factoring.

 

[Bobbins]

Tim Sherwood said in January that Smith was regarded as part of next season's first team and that he wouldn't be going on loan to the Championship again.

I watch a lot of Milwall (for my sins) and he has been one of their best players this season. Anyone who's claimed that he's 'barely played' for them or 'can't even get in the Millwall team' is talking complete shit - Jackett tried a few different line-ups towards the end of the season as their desperation grew because Millwall are a turgid, awful football team and he was desperate to freshen things up. Smith is highly thought of by most Milwall supporters and in the erly season period, when they had Chris Wood on loan, Smith got a number of assists from good crosses for him.

He made about two mistakes that led to goals all season, and is clearly too talented for that team.

He will likely go on loan to a Premiership club next season if he stays with us, or at worst a top Championship club. He is a perfectly good backup to Walker and has certainly impressed me a lot more than Naughton, even when Naughton's been allowed to play at RB.

As for Walker, he's got all the tools, he just needs to work on his application. Concentration and judgement will come with time and experience, like any defender. Decision making and use of the ball should come with good coaching, though I've seen no evidence of that so far. He needs to be more aggressive and expansive going forward - as he was for QPR and Villa when he was something of an unknown quantity - far too much standing still on the ball waiting for something to happen in front of him. He should score more goals, and he should learn to make later runs forward - he has the pace, he's just too predictable at the moment.

I'm confident Walker will come good over time. He's certainly better than most other players we could get in his position for a similar price. I'd also be happy with Smith as back-up for him next season (but then, I'm very much an advocate of making up almost all our back-up positions via our own youngsters rather than buying new players before they've even been tested).

 

[Legend10]

The same Gary Neville that compared Aedbayor's role to Carlos Tevez's in the Spurs v ManC game ? Or said Adebayor was playing badly in the Chelsea game ?

I didn't see the Chelsea game with English commentary as I was away so I don't know what he said, but in your ratings thread didn't you say something along the lines that neville had already decided pre game that Ade was going to play badly?

I do admit that's pretty stupid to judge a players performance pre game based on prejudice, don't you?

but the point remains I think gary neville knows something about playing RB, do you agree?

 

[Tottenham_God]

Tim Sherwood said in January that Smith was regarded as part of next season's first team and that he wouldn't be going on loan to the Championship again.

I watch a lot of Milwall (for my sins) and he has been one of their best players this season. Anyone who's claimed that he's 'barely played' for them or 'can't even get in the Millwall team' is talking complete shit - Jackett tried a few different line-ups towards the end of the season as their desperation grew because Millwall are a turgid, awful football team and he was desperate to freshen things up. Smith is highly thought of by most Milwall supporters and in the erly season period, when they had Chris Wood on loan, Smith got a number of assists from good crosses for him.

He made about two mistakes that led to goals all season, and is clearly too talented for that team.

He will likely go on loan to a Premiership club next season if he stays with us, or at worst a top Championship club. He is a perfectly good backup to Walker and has certainly impressed me a lot more than Naughton, even when Naughton's been allowed to play at RB.

As for Walker, he's got all the tools, he just needs to work on his application. Concentration and judgement will come with time and experience, like any defender. Decision making and use of the ball should come with good coaching, though I've seen no evidence of that so far. He needs to be more aggressive and expansive going forward - as he was for QPR and Villa when he was something of an unknown quantity - far too much standing still on the ball waiting for something to happen in front of him. He should score more goals, and he should learn to make later runs forward - he has the pace, he's just too predictable at the moment.

I'm confident Walker will come good over time. He's certainly better than most other players we could get in his position for a similar price. I'd also be happy with Smith as back-up for him next season (but then, I'm very much an advocate of making up almost all our back-up positions via our own youngsters rather than buying new players before they've even been tested).

2-3 years from now Walker v Smith who wins?

 

[Kendall]

The same Gary Neville that compared Aedbayor's role to Carlos Tevez's in the Spurs v ManC game ? Or said Adebayor was playing badly in the Chelsea game ?

He didn't at all. He was comparing Adebayor to Tevez saying their role in the game was similar but Adebayor was not being anywhere near as effective.

In the Chelsea game he said that Adebayor had done nothing until the goal (true) but kept commenting that the goal woke him up afterwards.

 

[Bobbins]

2-3 years from now Walker v Smith who wins?

I think Walker, because of his physical attributes, and on the assumption that he gets better. Smith will also get better and already has better technical skills, but will never be as tall, strong and fast as Walker.

 

[Kendall]

I can't believe people are still talking about Adam Smith. same age as Walker and nowhere near. Naughton is a couple of years older but actually impressed massively on his loan spells (Championship team of the year etc).

 

[Kalim]

He cost us top four with his back pass at Liverpool.
Just can not see him improving unless he gets some form of challenge for that spot.

Which of our players wasnt responsible for giving a goal away this season?
Who wasnt responsible in some way for us loosing points?
Why just pick on him?

 

[Tottenham_God]

I can't believe people are still talking about Adam Smith. same age as Walker and nowhere near. Naughton is a couple of years older but actually impressed massively on his loan spells (Championship team of the year etc).

Smith will be prem quality, so FM tells me

 

[Bobbins]

I can't believe people are still talking about Adam Smith. same age as Walker and nowhere near. Naughton is a couple of years older but actually impressed massively on his loan spells (Championship team of the year etc).

Except he's not 'nowhere near' - he's already technically more accomplished than Walker.