It's the Euros 2020! Finals Match Thread: It’s gone to Rome…

[Saoirse]

Not to get all woke here, but if your attitude is that you should be able to go anywhere and do anything without fear (correct!) and therefore nobody should be given advice to protect their own safety from bigoted imbeciles (overly utopian and dangerous!), you're almost certainly a straight white guy. Every woman I know has to think about how to get home safely after a night out. Every LGBT+ person I know has to think about what countries they can safely visit, especially if they want to be open. Every Black person I know has had to consider which neighborhoods or pubs are safe, right here in their own country. None of us can just pretend we live in a perfect world. It's very privileged to consider that victim-blaming rather than things we should be furious that we have to do, but have to do none the less.

 

[Amo]

Not to get all woke here, but if your attitude is that you should be able to go anywhere and do anything without fear (correct!) and therefore nobody should be given advice to protect their own safety from bigoted imbeciles (overly utopian and dangerous!), you're almost certainly a straight white guy. Every woman I know has to think about how to get home safely after a night out. Every LGBT+ person I know has to think about what countries they can safely visit, especially if they want to be open. Every Black person I know has had to consider which neighborhoods or pubs are safe, right here in their own country. None of us can just pretend we live in a perfect world. It's very privileged to consider that victim-blaming rather than things we should be furious that we have to do, but have to do none the less.

Well this is an innovative rhetorical device, at least. A for originality.

I'll be kind and presume you put emphasis on that "almost certainly" part.

 

[Griff001]

Wearing your countries colours at a Euro's semi final is a little different to going to going to Moscow dressed in a mini skirt and rainbow flag, or even walking along seven sisters in an Arsenal shirt after a match.

Nearly all fans wear their nations colours in major tournament finals, home and away. It's the done thing. All those other comparisons certainly are not.

 

[Julmust]

Of course you should. You should be able to go anywhere and wear anything without being attacked. But if you want to try that in a Spurs top at Stamford Bridge next season, then rather you than me. We both know it's a horrendous idea because this shit is very likely to happen - it's not unique to England fans. No blame on the Danes, some blame on the authories, all the blame on the numbskulls.

I mean, look at what it's like in Denmark. You really think it'd be clever to come home from this game in away colours, separated from the rest of your team's fans, with a 9-year-old? I don't think it's acceptable, but it's not surprising or remarkable either.

Home fans spitting on children hasn't been an issue in any of the other games played in this Euro. Certainly not the ones played in Copenhagen, in spite of a full stadium and away supporters. I don't know what point you're trying to make, but families feeling threatened and being abused in an international semi final isn't really to be expected.

 

[Saoirse]

Wearing your countries colours at a Euro's semi final is a little different to going to going to Moscow dressed in a mini skirt and rainbow flag, or even walking along seven sisters in an Arsenal shirt after a match.

Nearly all fans wear their nations colours in major tournament finals, home and away. It's the done thing. All those other comparisons certainly are not.

That I'd agree with. This isn't a normal tournament finals though. They're outnumbered 10 to 1 in the ground and 100 to 1 outside of it. It's much more like a typical away game where this certainly isn't the done thing because of the bigoted eejits involved. All the most reason in my opinion to make that explicitly clear to people, even if it does (rightly) sound bad.

 

[Saoirse]

Home fans spitting on children hasn't been an issue in any of the other games played in this Euro. Certainly not the ones played in Copenhagen, in spite of a full stadium and away supporters. I don't know what point you're trying to make, but families feeling threatened and being abused in an international semi final isn't really to be expected.

Has it not been an issue, or has it simply not been reported in any media outlet we're ever going to read? I doubt e.g. the Spanish press is covering a story about a Denmark fan getting abuse in England. I certainly saw similar things when we played Scotland - one **** decided to square up to a 5 foot tall woman, in a pub where the English were heavily outnumbered, and none of their fans stepped in to try and spot it.

 

[ZiggySpurs]

Not to get all woke here, but if your attitude is that you should be able to go anywhere and do anything without fear (correct!) and therefore nobody should be given advice to protect their own safety from bigoted imbeciles (overly utopian and dangerous!), you're almost certainly a straight white guy. Every woman I know has to think about how to get home safely after a night out. Every LGBT+ person I know has to think about what countries they can safely visit, especially if they want to be open. Every Black person I know has had to consider which neighborhoods or pubs are safe, right here in their own country. None of us can just pretend we live in a perfect world. It's very privileged to consider that victim-blaming rather than things we should be furious that we have to do, but have to do none the less.

Let's say you have a point here (and I see where you're coming from in part), if something were to happen to an LGBTQ+ person, woman, minority or anyone else, our initial reaction shouldn't be "someone should have warned them" or labelling it a "clash of cultures". It should be unequivocal denouncement of the perpetrator(s). The comment "what a bunch of wankers" would have sufficed.

I think a lot more should be done to tackle this sort of behaviour legally, not just match bans. I'm sure you agree that this sort of thing should be a joyous occasion for families or anyone in general, not one where they have to hide their heads and worry about the trip home.

 

[Saoirse]

Let's say you have a point here (and I see where you're coming from in part), if something were to happen to an LGBTQ+ person, woman, minority or anyone else, our initial reaction shouldn't be "someone should have warned them" or labelling it a "clash of cultures". It should be unequivocal denouncement of the perpetrator(s). The comment "what a bunch of wankers" would have sufficed.

I think a lot more should be done to tackle this sort of behaviour legally, not just match bans. I'm sure you agree that this sort of thing should be a joyous occasion for families or anyone in general, not one where they have to hide their heads and worry about the trip home.

I mean, I personally don't see the point in posting "what a bunch of wankers", it completely goes without saying, but point taken. We need a response of "fuck these arseholes" which is thankfully what we're seeing, as well as IMO official advice to those likely to be victims out of pragmatism. It's the latter which we've lacked and therefore I focus on. I think what happened was sadly predictable, that if the Danish fans had known they may have done things differently or not turned up, and that they have the right to know that information and make the decision for themselves.

And yes, definitely more bobbies on the beat to arrest and prosecute these fuckers.

 

[chrissivad]

Looking to see if he can spot the ball that he crosses earlier in the game...

 

[Erm33]

It's a bit boring without any football for a few days ?

 

[easley91]

It's a bit boring without any football for a few days ?

Just under 49 hours to go. ?

 

[Erm33]

Just under 49 hours to go. ?

 

[RickyVilla]

It's a bit boring without any football for a few days ?

Nah. It's pwapa bantz blud. 9 year olds should be spat at as they don't no wats going dahn.

 

[chrissivad]

It's a bit boring without any football for a few days ?

Couple of games in the Scottish League cup on today...

 

[Erm33]

Couple of games in the Scottish League cup on today...

Not sure where I'd watch them over in the US ?

It was nice having a bunch of games to put on almost every day in the background of my workshop during the day

 

[MassadaTom]

It really is a clash of cultures. Everyone here knows full well that you do not turn up in colours for a big away game. You really probably don't take your 9-year-old at all. And you don't try to walk home separately in said colours afterwards. I doubt they're banned from club matches - I really don't think things would be much different if some Chelsea fans turned up in colours and tried to walk on their own back to Seven Sisters among a load of our fans. Frankly I don't think it'd be much different at Copenhagen vs Brondby either. But these aren't football fans at all, they're random Danish families who happened to live in London, and they pretty clearly didn't have a clue what a football match tends to involve. In hindsight safety advice should probably have been sent out with their tickets.

Club football sure...
This is international tournament.
Even on politicaly loaded games like sco eng it's unacceptable!

 

[popstar7]

Attacking and/or abusing kids? Women? Families? Against Denmark? No excuse. None at all.

 

[popstar7]

 

[makeveli]

So his leaving England too now

 

[DiscoD1882]

Cannot condone any spitting or abusing of people at a tournament. End of. But people do need to understand there are twats in all walks of life. And they certainly don’t represent the majority. Who support their side with national pride. But can fully accept other people from other nations being around them. Pissed up twats who can’t handle a day on the sauce. But let’s try to keep this in perspective. It’s not everyone.