Harry Winks - Leicester City

[ljinko888]

Funny you choose Man City away as this season he was terrible up there. He got schooled a couple of seasons ago up there too. ??‍

Man City are miles better than us. I'd still play Winks against them because the alternatives offer no less creativity and less composure. Pochettino is not going to have us not play out of the back against them so might as well play a midfielder who can fit that style.

Moreover it was an example to contrast the point his game is suited to sides that come out to play and not a side who comes to put 10 men behind the ball. Hence I used the best team in the league vs the team most people tip to go straight back down. You don't pick a team for an opponent thinking back to a game six months before or two years before. If that were the case we should just take a reserve team to Bayern as they're not the ones who let in seven. I know you only see things in black and white terms but try not to be so dense.

 

[double0]

Harry Winks on the bench for while willl benefit him and others will soon realise his worth.

 

[nedley]

He’s tidy but not dynamic. He never hurts the opposition with his play.

Again. That is not his role.

His role is the pass before the assist.

He should be out of the team due to tactical reasons but there's been absolutely nothing wrong with his performances overall.

 

[faze_coys]

Again. That is not his role.

His role is the pass before the assist.

He should be out of the team due to tactical reasons but there's been absolutely nothing wrong with his performances overall.

Its also not true, the way he plays was instrumental in beating the likes of real madrid when thier midfield couldn't get on the ball because winks was dominating it. I'd say not allowing the other team possession is hurting the opposition.

 

[Primativ]

Again. That is not his role.

His role is the pass before the assist.

He should be out of the team due to tactical reasons but there's been absolutely nothing wrong with his performances overall.

LOL. Modric was the pass before the assist. Winks isn’t anymore a pass before the assist than Sissoko is. Or dier. Or any other player on the pitch.

I’m not sure where you are going with that...He’s no more a playmaker or before the assist than Scott Parker was.

The more and more I see if winks, he is absolutely the 2019 clone of Parker. His play style is so similar.

If Poch doesn’t keep winks out the side and pick a proper balanced CM it will cost him his job.

Our midfield needs to be built around NDombele. To get the best out of him we need a proper DM behind him, we don’t need Winks.

 

[wrd]

LOL. Modric was the pass before the assist. Winks isn’t anymore a pass before the assist than Sissoko is. Or dier. Or any other player on the pitch.

I’m not sure where you are going with that...He’s no more a playmaker or before the assist than Scott Parker was.

The more and more I see if winks, he is absolutely the 2019 clone of Parker. His play style is so similar.

If Poch doesn’t keep winks out the side and pick a proper balanced CM it will cost him his job.

Our midfield needs to be built around NDombele. To get the best out of him we need a proper DM behind him, we don’t need Winks.

I think its horses for courses, Winks is great for switching the play and slowing down the tempo when we are struggling to retain possession, now personally I'd like to see us be more expansive in our midfield play especially at home vs the likes of Watford and Newcastle so I'd prefer to see Ndombele + a shield. I think Winks will be suitable for giving Ndombele and rest here and there with rotation and I also think Winks is especially useful in big games where we are up against it and need to get our foot on the ball in be brave in retaining possession, that's why his best games have been in the Champions League in my opinion.

What I'd probably like to see going forward is a DM + Ndombele for the games where we're going to be on the front foot and in the tougher games, I'd probably like to see Ndombele pushed up and given less defensive responsibility and then you can fit Winks in there.

 

[dtxspurs]

A play maker is not all about the killer ball. Wink, when on the ball moves the ball quickly . People are seriously confusing our slow play being down to Winks but is actually down to the centre backs who go through an automatic process before hitting that cross field ball or they’ll take an age farting about before giving Winks a suicide ball to deal with. In terms of defending Winks is expected to completely protect the defence this is completely unrealistic when the whole team as a unit has given up on the press.

Anyway it might be a good idea to remove Winks from the team for a period before putting him back in.

Ummm... thats actually exactly what a player maker is all about... Making plays...

 

[double0]

Ummm... thats actually exactly what a player maker is all about... Making plays...

Winks finds his teammates with simple and efficient balls or makes himself available to receive mainly from a deep line position he sets up the play and direction of our attack the assist behind the assist .

He does a fair share of cover play blocks and interceptions , moving forward the phase of player used to go to Eriksen but Ndombele looks like he’ll take control there.

 

[Shadydan]

Ummm... thats actually exactly what a player maker is all about... Making plays...

Deep lying playmakers don't provide killer balls, how many times do you see Modric making that final pass for the forward to finish.

A playmaker by definition is:

a player who controls the flow of the team's offensive play, and is often involved in passing moves which lead to goals, through their vision, technique, ball control, creativity, and passing ability.

 

[Rusta81]

Just to throw my hats in to the mix, I see him as a back up to NDombele in the midfield 2 or as a back up to bulk up the midfield or in a midfield 3.

 

[double0]

Just to throw my hats in to the mix, I see him as a back up to NDombele in the midfield 2 or as a back up to bulk up the midfield or in a midfield 3.

He can easily combine well with Ndombele.

Anyway I like Winks as a player and its good Pochettino has options.

 

[dtxspurs]

Deep lying playmakers don't provide killer balls, how many times do you see Modric making that final pass for the forward to finish.

Should have suspected you'd get in on a semantical debate.

I really don't think you're comparing the abilities or "play making" abilities of Winks to Luka Modric, who has a goal or assist every about 4 games for Madrid. While Winks has a goal or assist every 25 games. But sure, call him a play maker.

 

[John48]

Sadly I think he'll go the same way as the likes of Mason, Livermore & Benteleb!

 

[double0]

Should have suspected you'd get in on a semantical debate.

I really don't think you're comparing the abilities or "play making" abilities of Winks to Luka Modric, who has a goal or assist every about 4 games for Madrid. While Winks has a goal or assist every 25 games. But sure, call him a play maker.

What type of player is Carrick out of interest.

 

[Shadydan]

Should have suspected you'd get in on a semantical debate.

I really don't think you're comparing the abilities or "play making" abilities of Winks to Luka Modric, who has a goal or assist every about 4 games for Madrid. While Winks has a goal or assist every 25 games. But sure, call him a play maker.

Ahh the good old comparison rebuttal...

Oh goals and assists, that's interesting...and before some joker chimes in I'm not comparing Winks to any of these players, I wonder what the stats are for players like Busquets, Jorginho, Kroos, Veratti are seeing as they're defined as playmakers for their clubs...

Answer me this: Are you only registered a playmaker by trade if you record over a certain amount of assists and goals because that seems to be the case according to your backwards definition in fact

So if Winks isn't a playmaker what kind of a player is he?

What type of player is Carrick out of interest.

By his definition he thinks Gerrard and Lampard are playmakers so...

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

He's either really good or really average at the moment, he has played well at times this season.

I just think at the moment the system is more important than trying to find the perfect role for Winks.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Should have suspected you'd get in on a semantical debate.

I really don't think you're comparing the abilities or "play making" abilities of Winks to Luka Modric, who has a goal or assist every about 4 games for Madrid. While Winks has a goal or assist every 25 games. But sure, call him a play maker.

Probably nearer to 1 in 6. Including scoring maybe 1 in 10/12 which is a little bit unfair comparing against the greatest midfielder in the world. Especially in his prime years playing for quadruple European champions.

Modric hasn't really improved that much goal and assist wise since he was with us.

This part from here is not for you in reply but more generic to the thread. Why do you all keep comparing him to the best in the generation. Busquets, modric, xavi etc. Stop comparing and simply appreciate.

In addition many say he's not defensive he's not attacking. Isn't that what you call an all round midfielder?

Winks was the only one who had the plums to tackle Messi properly.

 

[dtxspurs]

Probably nearer to 1 in 6. Including scoring maybe 1 in 10/12 which is a little bit unfair comparing against the greatest midfielder in the world. Especially in his prime years playing for quadruple European champions.

Modric hasn't really improved that much goal and assist wise since he was with us.

This part from here is not for you in reply but more generic to the thread. Why do you all keep comparing him to the best in the generation. Busquets, modric, xavi etc. Stop comparing and simply appreciate.

In addition many say he's not defensive he's not attacking. Isn't that what you call an all round midfielder?

Winks was the only one who had the plums to tackle Messi properly.

No... its literally 1 every 25 games. 4 goal contributions in 113 matches.

 

[dtxspurs]

Ahh the good old comparison rebuttal...

Oh goals and assists, that's interesting...and before some joker chimes in I'm not comparing Winks to any of these players, I wonder what the stats are for players like Busquets, Jorginho, Kroos, Veratti are seeing as they're defined as playmakers for their clubs...

Answer me this: Are you only registered a playmaker by trade if you record over a certain amount of assists and goals because that seems to be the case according to your backwards definition in fact

So if Winks isn't a playmaker what kind of a player is he?

By his definition he thinks Gerrard and Lampard are playmakers so...

Gerrard (g/a every 2 games) & Lampard (leading premier league scorer) absolutely were playmakers? Wtf? All those players are infinitely better than Winks offensively.

All of those players produce goals at over twice the rate of Winks. Busquets was the closest... at one every 10 games. Kroos every 3 games with Madrid.

Everyone loves to mention Pirlo as well.. a goal contribution every 3 games with Juve. Deep lying play makers effect the game positively with goals and assists. Otherwise they're just plain jane holding midfielders, like Winks.

 

[Shadydan]

Gerrard (g/a every 2 games) & Lampard (leading premier league scorer) absolutely were playmakers? Wtf? All those players are infinitely better than Winks offensively.

All of those players produce goals at over twice the rate of Winks. Busquets was the closest... at one every 10 games. Kroos every 3 games with Madrid.

Everyone loves to mention Pirlo as well.. a goal contribution every 3 games with Juve. Deep lying play makers effect the game positively with goals and assists. Otherwise they're just plain jane holding midfielders, like Winks.

Lampard and Gerrard weren't playmakers by trade, they were goalscoring midfielders - that's the point

The whole point of comparing Winks to Modric is in playing style not output, output is irrelevant it's what you do with the ball and how you play football which is how you're defined as a player. By that logic any young player who has played as a playmaker for younger age groups cannot be considered a playmaker if he's just broke into the senior team because their output doesn't match those of senior players due to some made up criteria, it doesn't make any sense.

What's Jorginho's output? Is he considered a holding midfielder, what was Carrick's...what was he considered as?