Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[shoggy33]

I'm fed up of watching us play this way - but it's been like this under 4 consecutive managers. At some point you have to look at the common denominators - the core of players who've been there for years, and unfortunately that includes our superstar strikers.

 

[thebenjamin]

Just so mental that we were voluntarily leaving him out of the side

 

[13VanDerBale13]

Or it shows how weak our squad is?

1 man doesn’t make a squad weak.

In game tactics & personnel does.

Both of which Conte has fallen victim too, with his persistence of 5 at the back & ignoring Gil.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Name three games where we’ve been excellent from start to finish? You can’t.

Even if Conte magically healed Kulusevski, he still wouldn’t play him. He sat on the sidelines for weeks whilst players who were bang out of form kept starting ahead of him. See Emerson, too.

Name three teams above us on the log. You can't.

Also, you can't use an excellent performance for an entire game as a metric. It's completely unrealistic.

 

[parj]

Wouldn’t worry too much. I’d be bloody amazed if he signed a new contract with us.

Why wouldn't he? It's not going to get better so he will sacked. Nice pay-off.

NO. That's not true.

We have not played free-flowing, possession-based football this season - which means we play a style you don't like. Fair enough. But, just because you don't like the style, does not mean its been "poor".

What was Conte supposed to do today? Play keeper? Maybe take a turn at the central CB role?

He can't magically heal Kulusevski. He can't force Richarlison or Lucas back early. We are playing games every 3 days - it requires rotation - and Conte has to play the players who are fit and gives us the best chance to win.

Who were the creative players today? Someone has to feed Son and Kane. Who were they?

How many players were actual attacking players? 2? Son and Kane. We struggle to transition from defence to attack because attackers are better at moving the ball forward. Nobody in our central midfield is a link man. Our wing backs have to transition play ... They should be the ones overlapping to create more attacking options not being the main attacking options.

 

[nedley]

To be fair Doherty is an attacking change as he's better going forward than Emerson and he brought Moura on for Skipp to go with a front 3. Also Perisic is a better attacking player than Sess. I'm not sure what other options he's had , Gil hasn't hasn't shown mich and not sure who he would replace anyway.

Maybe don't start Emerson from the start.

 

[bubble07]

It doesn't seem to have taken Erik Ten Haag a year to start seeing real improvements

From the nuno days to today I've seen a big mprovement

 

[HildoSpur]

1 man doesn’t make a squad weak.

In game tactics & personnel does.

Both of which Conte has fallen victim too, with his persistence of 5 at the back & ignoring Gil.

Gil is becoming the second coming of Messi every game he doesn't play. Sorry to say that if we are pinning our hopes on him we are in a sorry state.

 

[bubble07]

A couple of "oven ready" PL players in Jan would massively help

Zaha and Maddison

 

[mil1lion]

Maybe don't start Emerson from the start.

I'm not sure Doherty had 3 straight games having taken so long to get fit again

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I posted similar to this in the match thread but here is how I see it right now:

I 100% get the frustration today, at the result and because of the last two performances and results and because this season in quite a few games we've looked to lack some creativity and fluidity which at times can lead to some less than exciting and not 'Tottenham DNA football' . I also think that regardless of the manager, the squad really lacks creative and attacking players but part of that is probably due to the last 3 managers we've hired being pragmatic and largely defensive and lower possession based managers so they've influenced our recruitment team towards players of that ilk, more physical players perhaps rather than more technical and agile ones.

Conte's Chelsea and Inter sides weren't boring but that was because they had the quality throughout the squad to make the style of play reasonably exciting, we have far too many average and defensive players so when you combine that with a manager who favours lower posession and a more defensive style then it can lead to some boring football or just some largely non-creative football.

• At Chelsea Conte had the likes of : Moses, Alonso, Fabregas, Hazard, Pedro, Costa. (He also had 3 top CB's who could defend and pass brilliantly and 2 at the time world class CM's in Kante and Matic at well as Willian and Batsyui) Conte also had
• At Inter Conte had the likes of : Hakimi, Barella, Brozovic, prime Perisic, Eriksen, Lukaku, L.Martinez. (He also had 3 top CB's who could defend and pass brilliantly, he also had A.Young, Vidal, Alexis Sanchez)
• At Spurs Conte has the likes of : no top wing backs aside from an aging Perisic, Son, Richarlison, Kulu, Kane (only 1 top CB who can reliably defend and pass well in Romero, Lenglet at a push), he also has some very very average to poor squad and back-up players : Doherty, Emerson, Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Tanganga, Sessengon, Skipp, PEH??, Lucas, Gil.... (none of these players would get near the Chelsea or Inter squads he had)

I just think that as Conte has said we are a good 2-3 transfer windows away from being where we need to be unfortunately.

I do also think that whilst some clubs don't have such a defined 'style' or 'DNA', I think because of our success in the 60's 70's and 80's and then our fairly barren period from 91 until now really, we have quite a unique view as Tottenham fans that does very much associate ourselves with 'attractive' football or at least exciting and attacking and creative players, right now we have a big lack of both.

1958-1974 Bill Nick push and run glorious football, double winning side, Greaves, Goals
1974-1991 Burkinshaw, Venables : Hoddle, Waddle, Ardiles, R.Villa, Gazza, Linaker, C.Allen, goals, wonderful players, excitement
1991-2018 Not as successful at all but some wonderful exciting players and teams who generally attacked and scored goals and excited us no matter the result (yes some poor teams and players within that but on the whole usually a few to get excited about and under Jol, Redknapp, Poch etc we played some really sexy football). Anderton, Klinsman, Sheringham, Ginola, Carrick, Bale, Modric, Lennon, Defoe, Keane, Berbatov, Dembele, Walker, Rose, Toby & Jan, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane.
2019-2022 : 3 pretty defensive managers in Jose, Nuno and now Conte and a squad which has had to rely on Kane and Son for the last 3-4 years in most matches. We now have Kulu who is creative and exciting but aside from him we have a lot of average or uninspiring players, we have no other strikers apart from Kane, gone are the days of being excited by options such as Berbatov, Keane, Defoe, Pav (that was our choice of 4 at one time, now we just have Kane), in terms of creative midfielders like an Eriksen, we have no-one, in the system we play the wing backs should provide threat and excitement and they are very underwhelming, none of them get me off my seat barring Perisic at times.

This is a complex time for us right now, we also see City successful and playing tiki taka with Pep, Klopp the last few years successful and fast paced creative attacking football, Arsenal are playing very nice attacking creative football under Arteta, Chelsea have Potter and Man.U have Ten Haag, both of whom's style of play would've fitted in very nicely with our club's 'DNA' or fans preference for the way we play so we are watching most of our rivals play nice football whilst we finally have a world class manager but we don't yet have the quality of squad and players that he needs for the consistency of results and quality of football to keep our fanbase happy.

Positive possible outcome: Conte signs a new contract, we get him 5-6 top quality signing across Jan and next summer, 3-4 of which minimum are attacking creative players such as : RWB, CM, AM, ST, we get Kulu and Richy back from injuries soon and the performances and results are good.

Other possible longer-term outcome: we still sign 2-3 top quality players this Jan but Conte walks next summer, we hire a manager who plays more the brand of football we want to watch but one who is also a top top class manager who can keep us competitive right at the top of the league and cups, we give them budget to sign a good 5-6 top quality players next summer on top of what should be a good squad we've started to build and the football style of play improves and the results remain good or improve.

Negative outcomes: 1) Conte resigns next summer and we hire a new manager but regardless of style of play the results drop off a fair bit and we find ourselves outside the top 6 2) Conte resigns next summer and we hire a new manager maybe from Serie A etc who is yet another pragmatic more defensive and low possession style manager and the results don't improve (as unlikely many other managers could equal or better results Conte has been getting) and our fans just get sick of it and revolt against Paratic and ENIC.

Lets hope for one of the positive outcomes but I can certainly see why many are starting to get very frustrated with the combination of our style of play and results.

Try to be patient, lets hope we are still in a strong enough position in the table come world cup time and lets hope Paratici is given a serious budget for January to help Conte reinforce the squad. It would also help if Conte made a decision on signing an extension or not to give us a bit more stability as I think some of the frustration is also fans worry that Conte will walk and we will have to re-build/re-mould the squad again and who on earth would we hire next.

Very interesting time right now to be a Spurs fan to see which direction this all goes.

 

[thebenjamin]

I'm fed up of watching us play this way - but it's been like this under 4 consecutive managers. At some point you have to look at the common denominators - the core of players who've been there for years, and unfortunately that includes our superstar strikers.

Yeah I think having very slow centre backs is limiting us. Means we have to play deep as they can't recover in behind. But then signing Lenglet wasn't smart as he is very slow.

 

[Zippy1980]

Just so mental that we were voluntarily leaving him out of the side

Not we, Conte.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

To be fair Doherty is an attacking change as he's better going forward than Emerson and he brought Moura on for Skipp to go with a front 3. Also Perisic is a better attacking player than Sess. I'm not sure what other options he's had , Gil hasn't hasn't shown much and not sure who he would replace anyway.

But he brought on Doherty and kept Emerson on to retain his back 3. That’s my problem.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

Name three teams above us on the log. You can't.

Also, you can't use an excellent performance for an entire game as a metric. It's completely unrealistic.

You’ve missed my entire point but carry on.

 

[Berti]

Italian tony pulis the club isn’t having another penny of my money, it’s pathetic I’ve never ever seen such poor football it’s conference level

Antonio Pulis...

 

[mil1lion]

But he brought on Doherty and kept Emerson on to retain his back 3. That’s my problem.

It's still an attacking change with Sanchez off and still not sure what his other options were

 

[Finchyid]

disappointing to see both Ten Haag and Potter get their team playing better then us - after so little time…
Bot seems more modern and flexible in style of play.
Potter changes from 3 at the back after 35 when it clearly doesn’t work - something Conte never will do.

hope we soon will se a more free flowing Spurs.

Conte got us champions league

 

[matthew.absurdum]

I posted similar to this in the match thread but here is how I see it right now:

I 100% get the frustration today, at the result and because of the last two performances and results and because this season in quite a few games we've looked to lack some creativity and fluidity which at times can lead to some less than exciting and not 'Tottenham DNA football' . I also think that regardless of the manager, the squad really lacks creative and attacking players but part of that is probably due to the last 3 managers we've hired being pragmatic and largely defensive and lower possession based managers so they've influenced our recruitment team towards players of that ilk, more physical players perhaps rather than more technical and agile ones.

Conte's Chelsea and Inter sides weren't boring but that was because they had the quality throughout the squad to make the style of play reasonably exciting, we have far too many average and defensive players so when you combine that with a manager who favours lower posession and a more defensive style then it can lead to some boring football or just some largely non-creative football.

• At Chelsea Conte had the likes of : Moses, Alonso, Fabregas, Hazard, Pedro, Costa. (He also had 3 top CB's who could defend and pass brilliantly and 2 at the time world class CM's in Kante and Matic at well as Willian and Batsyui) Conte also had
• At Inter Conte had the likes of : Hakimi, Barella, Brozovic, prime Perisic, Eriksen, Lukaku, L.Martinez. (He also had 3 top CB's who could defend and pass brilliantly, he also had A.Young, Vidal, Alexis Sanchez)
• At Spurs Conte has the likes of : no top wing backs aside from an aging Perisic, Son, Richarlison, Kulu, Kane (only 1 top CB who can reliably defend and pass well in Romero, Lenglet at a push), he also has some very very average to poor squad and back-up players : Doherty, Emerson, Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Tanganga, Sessengon, Skipp, PEH??, Lucas, Gil.... (none of these players would get near the Chelsea or Inter squads he had)

I just think that as Conte has said we are a good 2-3 transfer windows away from being where we need to be unfortunately.

I do also think that whilst some clubs don't have such a defined 'style' or 'DNA', I think because of our success in the 60's 70's and 80's and then our fairly barren period from 91 until now really, we have quite a unique view as Tottenham fans that does very much associate ourselves with 'attractive' football or at least exciting and attacking and creative players, right now we have a big lack of both.

1958-1974 Bill Nick push and run glorious football, double winning side, Greaves, Goals
1974-1991 Burkinshaw, Venables : Hoddle, Waddle, Ardiles, R.Villa, Gazza, Linaker, C.Allen, goals, wonderful players, excitement
1991-2018 Not as successful at all but some wonderful exciting players and teams who generally attacked and scored goals and excited us no matter the result (yes some poor teams and players within that but on the whole usually a few to get excited about and under Jol, Redknapp, Poch etc we played some really sexy football). Anderton, Klinsman, Sheringham, Ginola, Carrick, Bale, Modric, Lennon, Defoe, Keane, Berbatov, Dembele, Walker, Rose, Toby & Jan, Eriksen, Dele, Son, Kane.
2019-2022 : 3 pretty defensive managers in Jose, Nuno and now Conte and a squad which has had to rely on Kane and Son for the last 3-4 years in most matches. We now have Kulu who is creative and exciting but aside from him we have a lot of average or uninspiring players, we have no other strikers apart from Kane, gone are the days of being excited by options such as Berbatov, Keane, Defoe, Pav (that was our choice of 4 at one time, now we just have Kane), in terms of creative midfielders like an Eriksen, we have no-one, in the system we play the wing backs should provide threat and excitement and they are very underwhelming, none of them get me off my team barring Perisic at times.

This is a complex time for us right now, we also see City successful and playing tiki taka with Pep, Klopp the last few years successful and fast paced creative attacking football, Arsenal are playing very nice attacking creative football under Arteta, Chelsea have Potter and Man.U have Ten Haag, both of whom's style of play would've fitted in very nicely with our club's 'DNA' or fans preference for the way we play so we are watching most of our rivals play nice football whilst we finally have a world class manager but we don't yet have the quality of squad and players that he needs for the consistency of results and quality of football to keep our fanbase happy.

Positive possible outcome: Conte signs a new contract, we get him 5-6 top quality signing across Jan and next summer, 3-4 of which minimum are attacking creative players such as : RWB, CM, AM, ST, we get Kulu and Richy back from injuries soon and the performances and results are good.

Other possible longer-term outcome: we still sign 2-3 top quality players this Jan but Conte walks next summer, we hire a manager who plays more the brand of football we want to watch but one who is also a top top class manager who can keep us competitive right at the top of the league and cups, we give them budget to sign a good 5-6 top quality players next summer on top of what should be a good squad we've started to build and the football style of play improves and the results remain good or improve.

Negative outcomes: 1) Conte resigns next summer and we hire a new manager but regardless of style of play the results drop off a fair bit and we find ourselves outside the top 6 2) Conte resigns next summer and we hire a new manager maybe from Serie A etc who is yet another pragmatic more defensive and low possession style manager and the results don't improve (as unlikely many other managers could equal or better results Conte has been getting) and our fans just get sick of it and revolt against Paratic and ENIC.

Lets hope for one of the positive outcomes but I can certainly see why many are starting to get very frustrated with the combination of our style of play and results.

Try to be patient, lets hope we are still in a strong enough position in the table come world cup time and lets hope Paratici is given a serious budget for January to help Conte reinforce the squad. It would also help if Conte made a decision on signing an extension or not to give us a bit more stability as I think some of the frustration is also fans worry that Conte will walk and we will have to re-build/re-mould the squad again and who on earth would we hire next.

Very interesting time right now to be a Spurs fan to see which direction this all goes.

You put this post in the match thread???

 

[crokey]

Comical that we have had 2 of the greatest managers of the last 20 years, Conte and Mourinho, and you think that the problem is the manager.

Can't imagine what mental gymnastics is going on to see our average squad v these top class managers and think the problem must be Mourinho. Then do that exact same shit again with Conte.

Let's get a new manager, go through the same shit, then we can blame him too. Fucking wake up