ENIC...

[ShelfWatcher]

Wasn't the issue that the THST wanted the meeting to be a matter of record and ENIC didn't? If that is the case then personally I don't think that the trust were acting in a childish manner. Unfortunately however, ENIC are not answerable to anyone so therefore it only becomes an issue of whether supporters feel that they are getting value for money (admittedly that is subjective) and if not, what recourse the supporters have to protest and realistically, the only answer is not to attend matches or invest money into the club. Historically that is unlikely to happen as clubs know that by and large, fans will continue to turn up.

It's Catch 22 territory, ENIC are slowly killing our dreams, yet somehow feels bad to want our club to be hurt by boycotts and reduced revenue
In reality it's probably gonna be a long, slow. sad decline. As a pensioner, I'll probably be dead before we become a top club again.

 

[Delboy75]

What on Earth are you on about. The level of investment is not good enough. Simple as that. The correlation between spending money and being a successful team has always been ingrained into football barring the odd miracle. If you want to be the best, you pay to get the players to get you there. We do not spend like winners and one trophy in 20 years coincides with that.

Essentially you are correct. The only thing that guarantees continued success is very big spending. But you are talking Chelsea City levels and even for United it hasn’t worked out. Liverpool are currently a bit of an anomaly and personally if they maintain same model will slip back imo. It’s hard to judge the 5 years pre the stadium because they were saving towards the build and probably put in £300-400m. So if you judge on last 3 years (with a pandemic) we are probably on par as the 5/6 th revenue maker. Basically what you are asking for is Chelsea City type spending. Instead of £30-50m players £50-70m players. Although I believe Lewis/Tavistock have the funds to do it, it’s still a big ask. Like your dad buying you an Audi and you saying no I want a Ferrari.

 

[shelfboy68]

It's Catch 22 territory, ENIC are slowly killing our dreams, yet somehow feels bad to want our club to be hurt by boycotts and reduced revenue
In reality it's probably gonna be a long, slow. sad decline. As a pensioner, I'll probably be dead before we become a top club again.

I don't see us being a top club again the club don't have the guts to be one, I think we will have our ups and downs but will average out to be a top 6th or 7th side during my lifetime.

 

[Metalhead]

It's Catch 22 territory, ENIC are slowly killing our dreams, yet somehow feels bad to want our club to be hurt by boycotts and reduced revenue
In reality it's probably gonna be a long, slow. sad decline. As a pensioner, I'll probably be dead before we become a top club again.

It's true. Supporters will always see it as damaging the club and that it probably won't do anything anyway. It's a very sad situation because I do get the impression that ENIC have run out of ideas in terms of the footballing side and are now just getting whatever they can out of the commercial side. It's a shame because it's a wonderful stadium.

 

[ardiles&villa]

Investment in what? We have invested in our player's wages, keeping them at the club far longer than anyone thought was possible at the time.

We have invested in our training centre, stadium, we hired one of the most expensive managers in the world, albeit incorrectly......

We have been investing in players thelast few years too. 42 million for Sanchez, more for Lo Celso, even more for Ndombele.

Invested incorrectly and perhaps at the wrong times, sure - but we have invested.

I didn’t say we haven’t invested. I said it wasn’t enough. The reason why it’s not enough is because when you do invest you won’t get everything right. So in order to be at the top you need to keep
Spending until you do. That won’t happen with the net spend that we have been shelling out. But yes I do agree with what your saying, I think we are both along the same lines generally.

 

[ardiles&villa]

Essentially you are correct. The only thing that guarantees continued success is very big spending. But you are talking Chelsea City levels and even for United it hasn’t worked out. Liverpool are currently a bit of an anomaly and personally if they maintain same model will slip back imo. It’s hard to judge the 5 years pre the stadium because they were saving towards the build and probably put in £300-400m. So if you judge on last 3 years (with a pandemic) we are probably on par as the 5/6 th revenue maker. Basically what you are asking for is Chelsea City type spending. Instead of £30-50m players £50-70m players. Although I believe Lewis/Tavistock have the funds to do it, it’s still a big ask. Like your dad buying you an Audi and you saying no I want a Ferrari.

You will never beat a Ferrari in a race with an audi. Money means that you can compete.

 

[ohtottenham!]

It's Catch 22 territory, ENIC are slowly killing our dreams, yet somehow feels bad to want our club to be hurt by boycotts and reduced revenue
In reality it's probably gonna be a long, slow. sad decline. As a pensioner, I'll probably be dead before we become a top club again.

I agree with you. I'm the same age profile, probably a couple of years younger. We experienced the good times as Spurs fans with cups and memories. I feel more for the next generation of fans after us who had the same attachment to Spurs that we had but no joy; there are a lot on this board. The grandkids are different. They don't really care one way or another and I'm actually happy about that.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

I agree with you. I'm the same age profile, probably a couple of years younger. We experienced the good times as Spurs fans with cups and memories. I feel more for the next generation of fans after us who had the same attachment to Spurs that we had but no joy; there are a lot on this board. The grandkids are different. They don't really care one way or another and I'm actually happy about that.

Cheers for reply. I don't have any grandchildren, but if I did for sure I wouldn't encourage them to support Spurs, which is a sad thing for me to say, but why put them through what looks like years of misery. I wouldn't stop them either of course, I'd leave it to them
Whereas, if I had had children, would absolutely have encouraged them to support the club, and taken them to games etc. That's what the rise of the new money giants and our demise has done to me?

 

[Delboy75]

You will never beat a Ferrari in a race with an audi. Money means that you can compete.

True it’s just about levels. We’ve spent decently in last 3 years especially considering Covid. You look at the players we’ve bought and most you’d say City wouldn’t buy them. We’ve pretty much bought what we are players for a 5/6/7th team. So like I said what ENIC are doing now is about par for what we actually earn. What people are asking them to do is actually extreme and to go above and beyond. But after 20 years we probably deserve it or they should just leave.

 

[Albertbarich]

Cheers for reply. I don't have any grandchildren, but if I did for sure I wouldn't encourage them to support Spurs, which is a sad thing for me to say, but why put them through what looks like years of misery. I wouldn't stop them either of course, I'd leave it to them
Whereas, if I had had children, would absolutely have encouraged them to support the club, and taken them to games etc.

I can really relate to this.

My boy is six months old. I've always dreamt of taking my son to spurs and seeing his face when he sees the pitch for the first time and getting him his first kit that he actually asks for. You know those father /son moments we dream of.

Right now I'm really not bothered about any of it. Enic have been pushing me away for the longest time. I've already been priced out of going regularly, but the club comes across more and more as a cold uncaring entity with each season. Make no mistake I love tottenham hotspur as much as anyone here, it's a love affair that has lasted all my life, an obsession but I don't particularly like the people currently running it. From the greedy billionaire recluse to his front man, from the manager in the pocket of a seedy super agent to the players barring a couple who clearly don't care.

But this Newcastle thing really has upset me. I've often been annoyed that Abramovich was let in, and man City being seen as this great club grates me no end when you consider their owners but to let this Saudi government in is disgusting.

Now not only do I mot particularly like the people at spurs but football is just horrible isn't it. I'm already angry at the thought of those players taking a knee on Sunday.

What sort of example does football set for my boy. Not a good one that's for sure

 

[ohtottenham!]

Cheers for reply. I don't have any grandchildren, but if I did for sure I wouldn't encourage them to support Spurs, which is a sad thing for me to say, but why put them through what looks like years of misery. I wouldn't stop them either of course, I'd leave it to them
Whereas, if I had had children, would absolutely have encouraged them to support the club, and taken them to games etc. That's what the rise of the new money giants and our demise has done to me?

They're not "legacy" fans. Freed from the secure attachments to a club like we had in our day, but they still have interest in a sport. They also have interests in other sports...money to be made.

 

[SpursForever71]

ENIC built the new stadium to make money by putting on events, not to make the team better, simple as. FFS Newcastle will even be leap frogging us next season. For Levy to say he has Tottenham FC's best interests at heart is crap, where is the proof? its not the stadium

 

[Delboy75]

ENIC built the new stadium to make money by putting on events, not to make the team better, simple as. FFS Newcastle will even be leap frogging us next season. For Levy to say he has Tottenham FC's best interests at heart is crap, where is the proof? its not the stadium

Well then he’s bare faced lied on tape. Because he has specifically said every penny will go towards the team. This obviously can’t be fully judged yet as we haven’t even completed a full season with fans in the stadium. Although again obviously they have used the clubs funds to build a stadium which increases the value of the club, from which ultimately they will benefit when/if the club is sold.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think a lot of the questions in there are valid... it's just a shame they refused to meet with the board in the first place to discuss them.

As with many things in life, if you act like a child you get treated like a child, which would appear to be the case with THST. Hopefully the board will end up being "the bigger man" and agreeing to some sort of meeting, but I think whilst the trust are asking loaded questions like "Do you think that one trophy in 20 years is an acceptable outcome?" there isn't much chance of anything substantial happening.

All it takes is a few people acting like grown ups and things will start moving more positively.

The THST have acted like grown ups and got shat all over in previous meetings with Levy and the board so they’ve now moved onto being more aggressive and bullish as after the ESL debacle and our steady decline again due to lack of a strong football plan or identity enough is enough as far as they’re concerned when it comes to Levy & ENIC.

 

[thebenjamin]

The question I'd ask would be:

The aspiration and attention to detail were admirable in the planning, design and build of the stadium. Such was our determination to be the best, we never wavered from our task despite costs skyrocketing to over £1 billion. Now we're winning awards for the quality of the stadium.

Do we have the same determination to stop at nothing until we win trophies for the quality of our football?

 

[bigblue]

Going to be a while before a team relocates. There's a lawsuit pending against NFL by St. Louis Missouri over the ugly move of the Rams back to Los Angeles. So far the city is ahead in terms of potentially winning as the lawsuit is in jury selection. This is the last step before trial. But with the inevitable appeals that will happen no matter what verdict (that is if they haven't settled by then), it'll be a while before there'll be a final outcome which may not be in favor of NFL. Thus it may make teams apprehensive about moving until everything is settled and done.

We'll see.


Additionally the teams that are itching to move are Buffalo Bills and Jacksonville Jaguars. But there are a few other teams on the horizon with expiring stadium leases and no appetite for their current cities to build a multi-billion dollar stadium. Still a long ways off anyway.

You’re right about the lawsuit… but I think that actually makes expansion more likely. As in; the NFL can make the lawsuit go away at any point by just promising St. Louis a new franchise.

The NFL’s problem is the number of games it has… it wants more & more because it’s a money-making machine and it won’t be possible (mainly because of the players union) to go much beyond a 17 game regular season. Maybe 18… but after that the only option is to expand to more teams to get more games.

It’s coming IMO and London would probably be 3rd/4th priority city.
Before the pandemic hit, the rumour was London was gong to get 8 games (shared between us, Wembley and Twickenham)… that sounded to me like a test run for a full franchise.

This IMO has always been Levy’s endgame. The biggest ‘cost’ for an expansion franchise is the stadium, so he’s built one… I imagine he’s aggressively campaigning the NFL to place a franchise in our stadium and the naming-rights that follow would far exceed what THFC could garner alone. Maybe ENIC would even sell up entirely at that point ??‍

All onions… but it’s my best guess.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

As we’ve seen with other clubs and now Newcastle our owners could be far far worse but also Levy/ENIC haven’t helped themselves at all.

Their PR over the years has been shocking as have a lot of the football side decisions.

If they’d thought about their actions more and had the fact that the club is nothing without the fans at the forefront of their mind and not furloughed staff and with such sudden and abrupt communications on it and had they not tried to be part of the ESL they have a lot more credit in the bank with the fans.

Furthermore they shouldn’t have considered the Olympic park as a potential stadium location for our new stadium (which without lobbying by fan groups etc could’ve gone ahead).

And then there is the football side of the club which has progressed overall under their ownership but if they’d had made better decisions on the football side and had a clear and consistent philosophy in terms of manager and player recruitment I’m certain we’d have won 1-2 more trophies and we’d have seen even more consistent good football and again the fans would be a lot happier with ENIC.

Levy to me is a bit cold and shy and awkward but I do think he care about the club and doing well on the pitch as well as making money off it I just don’t think he’s made good decisions on the football side which have cost us time and again in terms of who we’ve hired and signed and how the deals have been dragged out or collapsed last minute.

Our net and general spend has increased in-line with new stadium revenue coming in, it was paused by pandemic but is back now and I believe we will spend as much as we can we just need to spend it in the right way. Paratici does so far seem like a brilliant move from Levy as Paratici is someone who intends on building long term success with us 5-10 years etc.

The main issue now is our manager doesn’t suit the playing style and ‘DNA’ our fans want to see and where promised by the chairman, let’s hope Nuno can somehow change his style and entertain us and be successful as if he does and Paratici keeps making good use of our transfer money then I think a lot of the bad feeling towards Levy/ENIC might start to fade away a bit.

At the same time it’s hard to let bygones be bygones and Levy/ENIC have made a lot of mistakes and poor decisions in the past which fans are hurt by and may always feel hurt by.

 

[Cream]

I don't see us being a top club again the club don't have the guts to be one, I think we will have our ups and downs but will average out to be a top 6th or 7th side during my lifetime.

Chelsea, Manu, Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle,

Then Arsenal, Everton, Leicester

We are with Villa, West Ham right now.

 

[Delboy75]

Chelsea, Manu, Liverpool, Man City, Newcastle,

Then Arsenal, Everton, Leicester

We are with Villa, West Ham right now.

Well our revenue is more than Arsenal It’s double or more than double Everton Leicester Villa West Ham. So if you’re suddenly putting Newcastle in top 5 on financial wealth ( it will actually take them years to reach top 6 ) you should actually put us just behind in 6th.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

Well our revenue is more than Arsenal It’s double or more than double Everton Leicester Villa West Ham. So if you’re suddenly putting Newcastle in top 5 on financial wealth ( it will actually take them years to reach top 6 ) you should actually put us just behind in 6th.

Fair comments as always Delboy, but I am sure you know it's not just about revenue. The Saudis will top up Toons takings for sure, and many of us fear up to eye watering City style levels.
I don't study other teams accounts but it seems that many other clubs owners top up their revenues
Some other clubs also seem to have better recruitment strategies making their money go further.
There is also the fact that it often serms we are one of the most hated clubs in the country. Certainly many teams seem to bust their balls when playing against us. See the Leicester title season for example
ATM I agree with you we are still amongst the six biggest clubs. But we are way short of the Big 4 on the pitch. And I, and many others, see decline not progress on the horizon