ENIC...

whitestreak

SC Supporter
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
581
By the time our stadium is complete, ENIC will have invested approx a Billion pounds in Spurs.

Ah people can say they have not put the money in ......the banks have....The thing is have, in the same way that when you buy house, you get a mortgage.



You don't say well I bought my house for £500k ...and the bank put up 400k and I put up100k, ........they own my house.

you own your house the bank have lent against it.



The difference is that if push came to shove and things went wrong they have the money to pay back the banks!



Assuming the figure of £800m is correct for the Stadium complex and £100m for the training ground, then the expenditure is there for all to see.



Some supporters moan about "how tight our owners are" because they do not get x or Y player in the window.



No one outside a select few in the club/enic really knows that much about our transfer business, particular on deals that fall through or why?

Did we pass on a player for what reason? Was it Levy? Was it Poch? Was it the players parents or agent ? was the agent on a "bung" elsewhere etc.

To say we lack ambition after finishing 2nd in the table last season and 3rd the year before is somewhat unfair as we enter the last 16 of the CL.



I do not think that we are run by a bunch of idiots, so if its obvious to me that they need success on the pitch to protect their £billion investment,

it is obvious to them!



Nottingham Forest won 2 CL titles, Where are they today, Before them Blackpool and Preston North End were among the biggest clubs in the UK.

Football is a cyclical business, you have to build a sustainable base



I actually do not know of another club/owner that has ever spent as much money as us! So much for lack of ambition! Poch can see this which is why he is going nowhere , and possibly Harry too.

ENIC has a simple ambition ..........to build Spurs into the biggest club in the UK and then Europe.



The other bug bear of mine is how ENIC were always said to be in it for the short term, Is this the same ENIC, who are now the longest serving owners of a team in the EPL?



They want to build a sustainable model, and they are about 6 months away from completing on the first stage of it.

They merely are choosing to do it a different way, having stuck a billion in, they can! They have a lot more riding on it than anyone else.

So who owns the club? Them or the fans. It is also not just the fans, who pay money but sponsors and or NFL teams/fans etc...

The fans are the customer of the club, not the owner. Like any other business.

And they own that business not you or I. Therefore all the assets belong to them, subject to the bank, and the tax man. Not to us fans.

Obviously like with any business, the need to keep the customer happy, to continue sales, but don't confuse that with ownership.

Spurs today must be worth close to £1.5bn....in fact a friend of mine last july was with a delegation of Chinese buyers trying to buy Woolwich, and Kroenke turned down £2BN, saying it is not enough, this after making them prove the funds.

So forget about 120m...to take it to a ridiculous extreme ...its like saying £1000 stake in apple in 1982 is still worth 1000 not a billion or more.

Obviously the value is what anyone will pay...

They are far from perfect, but I for one, actually would not swap them for anyone else.
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
2,832
I actually do not know of another club/owner that has ever spent as much money as us! So much for lack of ambition! Poch can see this which is why he is going nowhere , and possibly Harry too.
.
Abramovic? City owners? PSG owners?
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
48,165
Meanwhile back at Chateau Munchkin, a happy Daniel Levy sits back in his high chair, stroking his pet white cat named addons, smiles and says “cheers son” :D
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
6,409
By the time our stadium is complete, ENIC will have invested approx a Billion pounds in Spurs.

Ah people can say they have not put the money in ......the banks have....The thing is have, in the same way that when you buy house, you get a mortgage.



You don't say well I bought my house for £500k ...and the bank put up 400k and I put up100k, ........they own my house.

you own your house the bank have lent against it.



The difference is that if push came to shove and things went wrong they have the money to pay back the banks!



Assuming the figure of £800m is correct for the Stadium complex and £100m for the training ground, then the expenditure is there for all to see.



Some supporters moan about "how tight our owners are" because they do not get x or Y player in the window.



No one outside a select few in the club/enic really knows that much about our transfer business, particular on deals that fall through or why?

Did we pass on a player for what reason? Was it Levy? Was it Poch? Was it the players parents or agent ? was the agent on a "bung" elsewhere etc.

To say we lack ambition after finishing 2nd in the table last season and 3rd the year before is somewhat unfair as we enter the last 16 of the CL.



I do not think that we are run by a bunch of idiots, so if its obvious to me that they need success on the pitch to protect their £billion investment,

it is obvious to them!



Nottingham Forest won 2 CL titles, Where are they today, Before them Blackpool and Preston North End were among the biggest clubs in the UK.

Football is a cyclical business, you have to build a sustainable base



I actually do not know of another club/owner that has ever spent as much money as us! So much for lack of ambition! Poch can see this which is why he is going nowhere , and possibly Harry too.

ENIC has a simple ambition ..........to build Spurs into the biggest club in the UK and then Europe.



The other bug bear of mine is how ENIC were always said to be in it for the short term, Is this the same ENIC, who are now the longest serving owners of a team in the EPL?



They want to build a sustainable model, and they are about 6 months away from completing on the first stage of it.

They merely are choosing to do it a different way, having stuck a billion in, they can! They have a lot more riding on it than anyone else.

So who owns the club? Them or the fans. It is also not just the fans, who pay money but sponsors and or NFL teams/fans etc...

The fans are the customer of the club, not the owner. Like any other business.

And they own that business not you or I. Therefore all the assets belong to them, subject to the bank, and the tax man. Not to us fans.

Obviously like with any business, the need to keep the customer happy, to continue sales, but don't confuse that with ownership.

Spurs today must be worth close to £1.5bn....in fact a friend of mine last july was with a delegation of Chinese buyers trying to buy Woolwich, and Kroenke turned down £2BN, saying it is not enough, this after making them prove the funds.

So forget about 120m...to take it to a ridiculous extreme ...its like saying £1000 stake in apple in 1982 is still worth 1000 not a billion or more.

Obviously the value is what anyone will pay...

They are far from perfect, but I for one, actually would not swap them for anyone else.
I’m really sorry but this is some of the biggest load of nonsense ever posted on SC. As you allude to in the post itself they haven’t stuck in a billion pounds they are borrowing. ENIC’s total equity injection into Spurs is far less than £100m and if something went wrong they wouldn’t step in and pay the loans they would bankrupt the club. That’s business. Similar to the Glazers at Man U, they at this point have net taken out money from the club but own it 100%. Very clever business but don’t be deluded that the fans haven’t paid for that 100% both through gate receipts and less directly through commercial deals (the sponsors aren’t charities) and tv rights. Again as you say we aren’t the owners we are the customers and as such our role is to ask for the best product to be delivered to us commensurate to the price the owners are asking us to pay. As we will shortly be asked to pay the highest price of any fans in the league we should expect to be delivered a product on the pitch that matches that and not care too much about the owners finances.

Finally as to ENIC being long term this only applies to the return on their investment. Trust me if they had been offered £1bn for the club by Cain Hoy last year they were ready to sell (that is ITK not speculation) once the stadium is finished and an NFL deal agreed they will want even more none of which will help us the fans.
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
I’m really sorry but this is some of the biggest load of nonsense ever posted on SC. As you allude to in the post itself they haven’t stuck in a billion pounds they are borrowing. ENIC’s total equity injection into Spurs is far less than £100m and if something went wrong they wouldn’t step in and pay the loans they would bankrupt the club. That’s business. Similar to the Glazers at Man U, they at this point have net taken out money from the club but own it 100%. Very clever business but don’t be deluded that the fans haven’t paid for that 100% both through gate receipts and less directly through commercial deals (the sponsors aren’t charities) and tv rights. Again as you say we aren’t the owners we are the customers and as such our role is to ask for the best product to be delivered to us commensurate to the price the owners are asking us to pay. As we will shortly be asked to pay the highest price of any fans in the league we should expect to be delivered a product on the pitch that matches that and not care too much about the owners finances.

Finally as to ENIC being long term this only applies to the return on their investment. Trust me if they had been offered £1bn for the club by Cain Hoy last year they were ready to sell (that is ITK not speculation) once the stadium is finished and an NFL deal agreed they will want even more none of which will help us the fans.
You keep posting this but are yet to supply any evidence to back it up.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
Admin
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
48,165
You keep posting this but are yet to supply any evidence to back it up.
Big business is so full of intricate rules, cleverness and back door swervearounds that I very very much doubt anyone on SC actually has a real handle on it* All we know is that Danny the Dwarf is a cross between the Artful Dodger, Arthur Daly and Terry Thomas.

*But they'll still try to convince us that they do
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
Big business is so full of intricate rules, cleverness and back door swervearounds that I very very much doubt anyone on SC actually has a real handle on it* All we know is that Danny the Dwarf is a cross between the Artful Dodger, Arthur Daly and Terry Thomas.

*But they'll still try to convince us that they do
Don't get me wrong, I doubt Levy will be doing a BOGOF on season tickets at the new gaff, but he keeps posting opinion as fact on this subject without backing any of it up.
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
What exactly do you want backed up ?
How about the bit in bold?
And don't start waffling on about the corporate seats because I could give a shit about the rich people and companies who can obviously afford those.
 

whitestreak

SC Supporter
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
581
I’m really sorry but this is some of the biggest load of nonsense ever posted on SC. As you allude to in the post itself they haven’t stuck in a billion pounds they are borrowing. ENIC’s total equity injection into Spurs is far less than £100m and if something went wrong they wouldn’t step in and pay the loans they would bankrupt the club. That’s business. Similar to the Glazers at Man U, they at this point have net taken out money from the club but own it 100%. Very clever business but don’t be deluded that the fans haven’t paid for that 100% both through gate receipts and less directly through commercial deals (the sponsors aren’t charities) and tv rights. Again as you say we aren’t the owners we are the customers and as such our role is to ask for the best product to be delivered to us commensurate to the price the owners are asking us to pay. As we will shortly be asked to pay the highest price of any fans in the league we should expect to be delivered a product on the pitch that matches that and not care too much about the owners finances.

Finally as to ENIC being long term this only applies to the return on their investment. Trust me if they had been offered £1bn for the club by Cain Hoy last year they were ready to sell (that is ITK not speculation) once the stadium is finished and an NFL deal
agreed they will want even more none of which will help us the fans.

BS
As you should know the banks wanted and got Tavistock guarantees for the loans, (as a football club has very little security).
The loan docs are public record if you can be bothered to download and read them .
I'm a sad old facker so I did. So if it goes tits.... Uncle Joe gotta write a very big cheque.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
6,409
How about the bit in bold?
And don't start waffling on about the corporate seats because I could give a shit about the rich people and companies who can obviously afford those.
I’ve backed it as much as I can. I was offered the premium seats which but range in price from £3,500 to £7,000. I’m told by goon supporters with club level seats that their top ticket prices are £4,500. I’m extrapolating the price of regular season tickets relative to the goons prices, not perfect but not unreasonable either and certainly the most reasonable assumption given the only available evidence in pricing at the new stadium which relates to premium seats. I could also tell you that someone with connections in the ticket office has told me that our top season tickets will be £2,500 which compares to about £1,500 currently.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
8,359
Tbh whatever ENIC have done transfer wise over the 17 years. They will have left us a legacy for the next 100 years with the training ground and the stadium. It should insure an ability to compete on a reasonable level with the best.But The thing I’m most grateful for is they have had the foresight and determination to get the stadium built at WHL. I honestly don’t think many owners would have had that vision
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
I’ve backed it as much as I can. I was offered the premium seats which but range in price from £3,500 to £7,000. I’m told by goon supporters with club level seats that their top ticket prices are £4,500. I’m extrapolating the price of regular season tickets relative to the goons prices, not perfect but not unreasonable either and certainly the most reasonable assumption given the only available evidence in pricing at the new stadium which relates to premium seats. I could also tell you that someone with connections in the ticket office has told me that our top season tickets will be £2,500 which compares to about £1,500 currently.
Which is very, very poorly.
This is what I mean...'someone told me' is hardly evidence now is it?
And as I said, I'm interested in what the average punter will be forking out, not our most expensive season tickets, or premium seats, I don't care if rich people are forking out tens of thousands, they can afford it.

Let's face it, you have zero evidence, it's complete guesswork that you're now passing on as though it's fact....because it fits right in with your obvious anti-enic agenda.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
6,409
Which is very, very poorly.
This is what I mean...'someone told me' is hardly evidence now is it?
And as I said, I'm interested in what the average punter will be forking out, not our most expensive season tickets, or premium seats, I don't care if rich people are forking out tens of thousands, they can afford it.

Let's face it, you have zero evidence, it's complete guesswork that you're now passing on as though it's fact....because it fits right in with your obvious anti-enic agenda.
Ok you don’t believe me perhaps you will believe the club’s CFO who stated that our match day revenues will grow to in excess of £100m, which is the same level as the goons and currently the highest in world football.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-31/tottenham-hotspur-agrees-to-897-million-plan-for-new-stadium
 

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2003
Messages
16,924
The examples quoted are not relevant. When Preston North End and Blackpool were winning things, the playing field was exactly even because of the maximum wage in force. In those days, even Burnley and to a lesser extent, Fulham were a force. Even when Forest won those titles under Brian Clough, the disparity between the haves and have-nots was not as wide as today.

Except for Spurs, I've lost interest in the game as there's no more loyalty, and one can seldom identify with the clubs because of the constant changeover in managers and players.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
6,409
BS
As you should know the banks wanted and got Tavistock guarantees for the loans, (as a football club has very little security).
The loan docs are public record if you can be bothered to download and read them .
I'm a sad old facker so I did. So if it goes tits.... Uncle Joe gotta write a very big cheque.
Where in the loan docs do you see the Tavistock guarantee ? They reference a charge against the ground and all revenue streams but no guarantee I can see. I assume you are referring to the info at Companies House ?

It does appear ENIC have provided a £50m credit facility, which if it is subordinated to the bank financing so it would appear that they are in the hook for this but no more, although there is nothing in the public domain I can see to suggest it is subordinated.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spurs-loans/tottenham-hotspur-nets-400-million-stadium-loan-idUKKBN18R24X
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
18,782
Ok you don’t believe me perhaps you will believe the club’s CFO who stated that our match day revenues will grow to in excess of £100m, which is the same level as the goons and currently the highest in world football.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-31/tottenham-hotspur-agrees-to-897-million-plan-for-new-stadium
When we have this kind of income, and the average joe is paying more than anyone else in the world, and we're still sitting fifth in the table, then come back to me.
Until then, stop guessing and extrapolating, it's absolutely pointless.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
6,409
When we have this kind of income, and the average joe is paying more than anyone else in the world, and we're still sitting fifth in the table, then come back to me.
Until then, stop guessing and extrapolating, it's absolutely pointless.
It isn’t in the far off future, we are in January and season ticket renewals will occur in May. I’m happy to take the Pepsi challenge.
 
Top