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Dr Cockerel & Hyde(ings): Tottenham's astonishing conundrum and woodworm

ginola99

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2005
684
1,421
As we all know Spurs' form against the top four teams has been abysmal and most probably the worst to date. Whilst it's been well document that our form against the 'bigger teams' needs huge improvement and a lot more thought we have taken our eye away from our form against the conundrum of old, the smaller teams.

In the 24 league fixtures (against teams not in the top 4) our form reads.

P24 W17 D4 L2 F38 A17 G 21 Pts 55

To put that into context we've averaged 2.29 points a game, 1.58 goals per games and 0.7 goals against. If you held this form throughout the course of a season then you'd end up with this.

P38 F60 A27 PTS 87 GD 33

Since the Premier League became 20 teams back in 1995 only once has a team finished 2nd with as much or more points than 87: Manchester United in 2012 with 89 points. To put it simply that's enough points to win the league in 18 of the last 19 seasons.

When you look at the form against the top four again it contradicts any positives derived from this season.

P8 W0 D1 L7 F2 A27 Pts 1 GD -25

It is without doubt the most baffling conundrum we've come across. In the past it’s been pretty easy to explain Spurs’ stagnation or decline. During the Sugar years we bought badly, during Levy's time we haven't bought enough or good enough as a result of stubborn wages cap. But this defies all that I have seen before and simply begs the question:

How can a team be title contenders for three quarters of the season but then be relegation dead certs for the other quarter?

With Tottenham you always get the feeling of being so near yet so far but to me it's obvious that this club can challenge for the league title. There are two things holding us back, firstly is of course not having the right manager but above all else is the mentality. That mentality goes right from the top to very bottom, it's also eating away in the fans' minds like wood worm. Tottenham Hotspur Football Club is like a stunning masonry building filled with beauty, flair, history, grandeur and character on the outside but on the inside the timber frames are barely standing, on the brink of collapse as a result of such an infestation.

When challenging for the league title you have win, at bare minimum, half the games against the four teams around you. If we had managed to get 12 points more in those 8 haunting games than we did then we'd be on 68 points, three points off the top and depending on who we'd got those points from we could actually be top. Whilst our defence has been leaky against the top four we still haven't scored much over all let alone against those 4 and this shows up another problem we have, goal scorers.

This season our top five goal scorers are:

Ade: 11
Soldado: 11
Defoe: 10
Eriksen: 8
Paulinho: 6

And that's over the course of the whole season, God only knows how bad it is in the league alone as I don't believe we have a single player on double figures.

I honestly believe that this club can challenge for the league next season. I know many will understandably argue that ship sailed a long time ago but whilst we're not an obvious candidate we're roughly 3/4 of the way to being one. We need the right manager, we need to know our first team, we need more goals and above all else a stronger mentality, in fact a winners mentality.

I feel we have enough talent, who are to still develop or at least appear/turn it around (Paulinho, Soldado etc) to be able to achieve this in one summer. Find the right man to hold the reigns (ala Van Gaal) and you'll be amazed at what you can do. Also we need a star player someone who scores lots of goals although we may not have buy that player as we may already have him in waiting.

There's problems, we have them in abundance but I honestly believe that if we solve them then we'll be in a far better position than most think. The first of which is our squad, as my neighbour said to me a few weeks ago

"my old man used to say - the stronger your reserves, the weaker your firsts will be".

Edited: spelling and grammar.
 
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SlunkSoma

Like dogs bright
Oct 5, 2004
3,941
3,490
Only way we can challenge for the title next year (or even be considered outsiders at any point in the season) is to finish outside EL places. That wont happen.

The 'highest points total' stat is very misleading though. The league last season was terrible, not sure if it is any better this year (maybe the current top 5).
 

Sir Henry

Facts > Feelings
Aug 18, 2008
2,706
2,817
I like posts like this, but In general, its easy for people to focus on the negative if they are generally negative themselves. It's fairly easy to be opinionated and for people to think they know better. At the end of the day we are in the position we are in and its up to us as a club to get out it. Referring back to the OP, we are still in a healthy position in the league. After all these cringe worthy sit in's were having after defeats, touchline tantrums, changes of managers, almost a full 11 change of personnel we are still on course for a record points tally.

I remember when Harry came in. We couldn't buy a point before him, just that change of manager turned our team that were pretty much clueless into a club that almost finshed in europe that season, then the CL the next, we played some fucking great football.

Point I'm making, is that were only a tweak or two away from having our Tottenham back.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2011
3,114
7,643
Nice article and I largely agree with it. I think its slightly misleading in the fact we have been very lucky against some of the teams below us.
 

ginola99

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2005
684
1,421
Only way we can challenge for the title next year (or even be considered outsiders at any point in the season) is to finish outside EL places. That wont happen.

The 'highest points total' stat is very misleading though. The league last season was terrible, not sure if it is any better this year (maybe the current top 5).

The Europa League has absolutely suffocated us for years.

2009-2011 showed that not being in the EL does help you get into the CL but as we saw in the following season not having enough squad depth or consistent strikers/goal scorers effects your chances of qualifying again with VdV signing covering the obvious cracks (no ball winner in mid and shit strikers).

I really hope we don't qualify for the EL this year as I'll just want to cry, it drags you down and down. It should either go Tuesday CL fixtures with Wednesday being EL fixtures and then the other way round for the next fixtures or just abolished. Seriously sick of the sight of it and to think 10 years ago all we ever did was dream about being in it.
 

Sir Henry

Facts > Feelings
Aug 18, 2008
2,706
2,817
Nice article and I largely agree with it. I think its slightly misleading in the fact we have been very lucky against some of the teams below us.

I bet if you were to look at other clubs playing against the so called lesser teams, they will all have had their touch of luck too. It's just we don't focus on it as we concentrate on our own club.
 

SlunkSoma

Like dogs bright
Oct 5, 2004
3,941
3,490
The Europa League has absolutely suffocated us for years.

2009-2011 showed that not being in the EL does help you get into the CL but as we saw in the following season not having enough squad depth or consistent strikers/goal scorers effects your chances of qualifying again with VdV signing covering the obvious cracks (no ball winner in mid and shit strikers).

I really hope we don't qualify for the EL this year as I'll just want to cry, it drags you down and down. It should either go Tuesday CL fixtures with Wednesday being EL fixtures and then the other way round for the next fixtures or just abolished. Seriously sick of the sight of it and to think 10 years ago all we ever did was dream about being in it.
In fairness to us, that was before UEFA dicked around with it, and ruined it. the reality of the effect being in it has on your season sunk in and it's very off putting. Id still love to win it in theory, but it's just not feasible at the moment as we've seen. We aren't the people who have deemed it a second class competition, that's the organisers fault. It's just there to placate Europe's second tier clubs, and maintain the CL leagues spectacle of having the biggest clubs participate in that.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,149
46,140
Nicely written piece but I'm afraid I don't agree with it.

I think the OP is over thinking it tbh. The reason there is such disparity between our results again the "lesser" teams compared with the top four is because there are a lot of average teams.

If you look into it a bit more, the fact that those victories against the "lesser" teams are rarely by more than a goal or two tells it's own story.

We have scored less than all the other top eight teams by some distance, largely due to the fact we can't pass the ball and are shit in the final third. A manager can improve this but you can't polish a turd.

We've also shipped 6, 5(twice), 4(twice) and 3 (against bloody West Ham of all people).

Trust me, that is not a team on the verge of greatness. We could have a Mourinho/Fergie hybrid and we won't be winning the league.
 

ginola99

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2005
684
1,421
Like I said "3/4 of the way there" but the other 1/4 is just shocking beyond words.

Despite the initial post I literally couldn't care less anymore, I don't feel doom and gloom but just feel so f@cking detached and disillusioned.
 

miles_64

If Carlsberg did Members
Sep 10, 2004
1,697
1,069
I think the record against the bottom 15 has something to do with 'fear factor'. Teams from the bottom 15 fear an on-form Spurs who are beating top four teams and therefore shut up shop and make themselves hard to beat.

On current form, Spurs aren't seen as a threat so the lower teams have more of a go and open themselves up.
 

Chimbo!

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,596
3,340
Only way we can challenge for the title next year (or even be considered outsiders at any point in the season) is to finish outside EL places. That wont happen.

The 'highest points total' stat is very misleading though. The league last season was terrible, not sure if it is any better this year (maybe the current top 5).

I agree with this to an extent. After years of being supportive of the Europa League and before that the UEFA Cup, I think I can finally see it for what it is: a nice buffer to protect the elite clubs from any advancing middle-weight teams.

If you're a middle-ranked club that invests and builds a good team then you might - if you're lucky - secure a Europa League finish, which you can use to help improve your squad. Except the endless Thursday nights in far flung places makes it particularly tiring for your squad. The irony is that to compete in the league and the Europe League you need a Champions League team's budget and player pulling power. The only way to do that is to finish in the Champions League. But you can't because the Europa League is derailing your league season and allowing the Champions League teams to steal the crucial qualification spots.
 

robbiedee

Mama said knock you out
Jul 6, 2012
2,724
7,551
Lets not forget that EL winners qualify for CL next season. I think this will make it even more physically demanding on players, all fighting for the slim chance of the big prize. The biggest joke for me with EL is that teams who fail in the CL still get to have a second bite of the cherry in this competition.

Also we've not had any major cup runs domestically this season, so it could have been a lot worse.

EL or no EL in general our overall team performances have been pretty desperate all season under AVB and Tim with 1 or 2 bright moments. Until this improves, it doesn't matter what competitions we're in or aren't in.

I'm always optimistic so we'll see what happens and where we end up.
 

mendesstormer

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2005
644
418
Yes, it's staggering. We've beaten the teams who are worse than us and lost to the teams who are better than us (and West Ham). What a conundrum, eh?
 

onthetwo

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2006
4,583
3,407
id settle for not making complete mugs of ourselves next season before competing for the league (the point of the article where i stopped reading).
I love your optimism (prescription/recreational drugs induced im assuming)
 
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