Chairman racists?

[Kendall]

I think it's more racist to totally ignore a capable white manager based on the fact that we need to 'improve the quota'

Best man for the job I'm afraid, and at the moment it's just a coincedence that there aren't that many top candiates of black origin.

 

[HuggyBear]

I'm sure all this will change over the next decade or so. As more and more black players play under the best managers in the world they will look to move into coaching at the end of their playing careers. It might just take some time to filter through. I expect to be reading threads about the lack of chinese managers - is this racist? in ten years time.

 

[Mullers]

It sounds like your bosses seem guilty about their previous actions and are trying to atone for it. Is it possible that they have actually been discriminating against non whites previously.

The following is from the Equality and Human Rights commission website


Not at all,

Discrimination wouldn't even enter their heads, but because we had a sales force of 90+ of which (if memory serves me correctly) only 2 were non white brits they were advised by the companies HR department that they needed to recruit from other groups rather than recruit who would be best for the job.

Discrimination wouldn't enter their heads but yet they told you directly to discriminate (which from what I read is against the law) in order to avoid an investigation. Well why are they trying to avoid it if they have done nothing wrong?

 

[Mullers]

In my opinion racism doesnt really exist. Youve either got it or you havent regardless of what colour you are. Put it like this, if Lewis Hamilton was 'White' would he still be driving in F1 ?? You either cut the mustard or you dont. You cant go round giving jobs out just because you are black or white, its whether your good enough - look all over the place, you cant prejudice for colour discrimination, - If Arsene Wenger had been 'Black' he'd still of got the job.

Sorry to say that racism doesn't exist is total utter rubbish. why do you think we have laws on race discrimination? If it was just about who is best for whatever job of whatever color, such laws wouldn't exist.

 

[Mullers]

I'm sure all this will change over the next decade or so. As more and more black players play under the best managers in the world they will look to move into coaching at the end of their playing careers. It might just take some time to filter through. I expect to be reading threads about the lack of chinese managers - is this racist? in ten years time.

Why do black players have to play under the best managers in the world in order to move into coaching? white players don't need to that.

 

[SpurSince57]

MARSHALL:
It's a mystery, isn't it this?

BARNES:
It's not much of a mystery, no.

MARSHALL:
Because, basically, you were a fucking useless manager, weren't you?

BARNES:
In a nutshell.

 

[HuggyBear]

Why do black players have to play under the best managers in the world in order to move into coaching? white players don't need to that.

What ever your ethnicity you will benefit more from playing under the best managers around. Not everyone will have a natural talent for being a manager. I'm sure people like Mark Hughes and Roy Keane are taking massive influences from fergie. What i'm saying is if you learn from playing under the best then some of those skills will influence how you are as a manager. Do you think Rijkaard would be such a good manager if he hadnt played under Sacchi and Van Gaal and been an assistant to Hiddink?

As for your response, why do you say white players dont need that? Do they have a god given right to be good managers? Nobody seems to have told Gareth Southgate this.

 

[Mullers]

MARSHALL:
It's a mystery, isn't it this?

BARNES:
It's not much of a mystery, no.

MARSHALL:
Because, basically, you were a fucking useless manager, weren't you?

BARNES:
In a nutshell.

Yeah he didn't do well at Celtic but for him never to get another chance in management in any league again is harsh.

 

[Mullers]

What ever your ethnicity you will benefit more from playing under the best managers around. Not everyone will have a natural talent for being a manager. I'm sure people like Mark Hughes and Roy Keane are taking massive influences from fergie. What i'm saying is if you learn from playing under the best then some of those skills will influence how you are as a manager. Do you think Rijkaard would be such a good manager if he hadnt played under Sacchi and Van Gaal and been an assistant to Hiddink?

As for your response, why do you say white players dont need that? Do they have a god given right to be good managers? Nobody seems to have told Gareth Southgate this.

I'm basically talking about getting an equal opportunity, certainly it could be of benefit if they played under great managers but its not a guarantee they will be successful and its not a necessity that someone has to play under a great manager.

Wenger didn't play under any great managers neither did Mourinho.

 

[jondesouza]

Interesting one this. I do think that the lack of black managers is down to racist attutudes, but not for the reasons, or really during the periods that the arguments suggest.

The argument put forward that there is racism at play seems to centre around the fact that, because there are a certain number of black players in the leagues now, there should also be a similar ratio of black managers. It totally ignores the fact that until the recent past, because of racism, black people weren't given opportunities by clubs to play. That changed over time (although shamefully slowly). What we're now seeing is a similar lag in the take on of managers. I'm not sure if the lack of opportunities for black managers that appear now is racist in itself or is just a by-product of that earlier racism caused by black players not having the reputations in the game of their white counterparts.

That is to say, chairmen have a tendency to hire managers that may not have played at the highest level but have but have built up a successful management record over time (a Wenger or Mourinho) or players that have a strong playing reputation but little or no managerial experience (Southgate, Pearce, Platt, Vialli, Gullit, Barnes).

Because of their lack of playing opportunities, black managers of both types have not really come to the fore apart from a few notable exceptions.

What I do anticipate is that the number of black managers will markedly increase over the next 5 years when those players with national and indeed international reputations take the step into managing when the key black players from the current generation retire from the game.

 

[KentuckyYid]

Here's a relevant article to this thread;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article3599198.ece

Notice how some very senior positions are already held by black people.

 

[thegreatap]

Yeah he didn't do well at Celtic but for him never to get another chance in management in any league again is harsh.

is he even wanting to get back into management?

 

[littleAaronlennon]

Instresting article Mullers makes a number of valid points but some not so. Firstly somebody who happens to be of a mix race descent, i have to point out that Chris Houghton is not Black but actually mixed race, and trust me there is a difference. For crying out loud man he can't be refered to as Irish without having some white blood in his DNA, because without trying to sound ignortant i don't know any full blooded black Irish men do you. :bang:

Secondly and the more important issue regarding chairmen not appointing black managers, is naturally yes you should appoint somebody on the basis of there ability however everybody knows the world dosen't work like that. How else can somebody explain that biggot Ken Bates giving that little weasel Dennis Wise a mangerial position. If your friends with people in high places then quite simply you have a better chance of getting on i'm afraid, and to some mindless idiots regardless of your skin colour one's background also comes into play why else do you think Harry Redknapp wasnt made England manager. Yes before somebody points out our own Terry Venables he was more the exception rather than the rule, as i personally believe there will always be a stigma attached to class and race as unfortunately we don't live in the perfect world there's ignorance whereever you look it's just about opening one's eyes and confronting it.

 

[Cicada]

fucks sake..

affirmitave action it's called in America, and it's illegal there now...

the country is really turning into the shit of the world

 

[Mullers]

Instresting article Mullers makes a number of valid points but some not so. Firstly somebody who happens to be of a mix race descent, i have to point out that Chris Houghton is not Black but actually mixed race, and trust me there is a difference. For crying out loud man he can't be refered to as Irish without having some white blood in his DNA, because without trying to sound ignortant i don't know any full blooded black Irish men do you. :bang:

Chris Houghton is a Black Man, Tiger Woods is a black man, Lewis Hamilton is a Black Man. Rio Ferdinand is a black man.They are all black regardless of whether they are of mixed race descent or not.

i don't know any full blooded black Irish men do you. :bang:

I don't know what you mean by full blooded.
If you mean black men born in Ireland then I know a few.

 

[Mullers]

is he even wanting to get back into management?

He did at one stage I dont know about now

 

[Mullers]

Here's a relevant article to this thread;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article3599198.ece

Notice how some very senior positions are already held by black people.

Yes, so whats your point?

 

[Mullers]

fucks sake..

affirmitave action it's called in America, and it's illegal there now...

the country is really turning into the shit of the world

Who mentioned affirmative action?

 

[leffe186]

As an aside:

Our HR department at work advised me that e.g. specifically advertising for people of Chinese origin to wait in a Chinese restaurant had been established by legal precedent as a form of discrimination that was justified for cultural reasons. However this would not apply in positions within that restaurant that would not be visible to the public. In other words, a non-Chinese cook could not be discriminated against purely on the basis of ethnic origin - only if they could dish up a decent Chinese meal.

 

[jondesouza]

Chris Houghton is a Black Man, Tiger Woods is a black man, Lewis Hamilton is a Black Man. Rio Ferdinand is a black man.They are all black regardless of whether they are of mixed race descent or not.

Absolute bollocks. This comment makes me really angry. Why should mixed race people be defined by the racial background of one parent over the other? Why should a person of mixed black and white parentage be defined as black rather than white? And, in fact, isn't trying to pigeon hole people of mixed backgrounds into one ethnic group utterly discriminatory? Mixed race people have to deal with a whole set of issues based on their racial origin and often feel as if they don't belong to the racial groups of either of their parents. Some feel a natural affinity with one half of their family over the other and define themselves as such. That's fine. But who do you think you are making a sweeping generalisation that all children of mixed black/white parentage are black? In an age when mixed race people are the quickest growing racial group in the country, mixed race people need role models that define themselves as such, not to be lumped in with existing racial groups.